Wars World News Forums

by **Delta_Angelfire** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:24 am

Just a slight addition to the damage formula. I've been playing around with low defense values for fun and it seems that Luck damage gets added directly to base damage in the formula. For example, full hp, 100% atk infantry vs full hp, 20% def MD tank yields ~ 25 - 75 damage (at least as far as I can tell from the animations) and infantry have a chance to ohko 10% defense wartanks. Anyway that gives me:

(Base Damage + Luck) * (HP/10) * (Total Attack) / (Total Defense)

Not sure about the applicable usefulness of this, but there it is.

EDIT found a specific example: 90 matchups (i.e. Arty vs Infantry) in a 90% matchup, theres a 1in10 chance to ohko the opposing unit if there are no bonuses, however, if there is even a 10% defense bonus (even if there's a +10% attack bonus to match it) that unit will never be ohkoed (damage = 99-109 vs def of 110).

This could have a more significant effect on battles with custom/"balanced" COs since we can make attack and defence boosts in 1% incrememnts rather than the standard 10% for IS COs..

by **Sven** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:18 am

LUCK IS EVIL AND MUST BE ERADICATED

by **Terragent** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:09 am

Huh, so luck has been increased from the older games. By 1 point, but increased nonetheless.

by **GipFace** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:21 pm

Version G was given to allgames.com prior to the finals match in order to encourage better discussion. This was how Norm knew that there was a luck roll involved while he was explaining the damage formula, and how Scot thought the Duster wasn't too powerful. I forgot to upload it until now.

None of the damage values changed. The main addition was extra information about luck and HP vs. health at the bottom of the chart. This was a contingency plan in case one of my units did +2 HP projected damage (e.g. 65% = 8 HP damage) and I had to explain the anomaly, since anyone not knowing the formula would raise an eyebrow. Also, Brenner's COP description was updated with the note that it heals loaded units. Hey, it might be useful...

by **DTaeKim** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:43 am

What changed?

by **GipFace** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:39 am

The chart has been updated to version G, which is likely the final version of the chart. I'm not going to bother with a European version unless someone specifically requests it.

by **GipFace** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:11 pm

There's a method to the madness of ordering units:

1. Land, air, then sea
2. Subsorted into directs, indirects, and "cannot attack" units
3. All units that rely on a secondary weapon are grouped together
4. All tanks are grouped together
5. Air units are ordered in defensive strength. Fighter has the most defense, t-copter has the least. This makes the antiair/missiles/fighter/cruiser/carrier values easy to read. Seaplane has more defense than duster, therefore it goes first.
6. With the exception of air because of rule 5, units are sorted by cost, except missiles. Missiles are placed near the bottom for easier comparison against fighter.

Based on rule 5, the duster and seaplane needed to be switched. Since the duster has less defense than the seaplane and bomber, it has to be placed after.

by **GaoGaoStegosaurus** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:28 pm

GipFace wrote:Swapped positions of Seaplane and Duster for easier comparison against Bomber.

If you're swapping them for the sake of convenience, then why not position them in this order: Fighter, Duster, Sea Plane, and Bomber?

by **GipFace** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:46 pm

All right. The exact specification doesn't really matter in a reference chart like this. If you activate Tabitha's COP, you won anyway.

Chart updated to version F. There are some major corrections, so please have a look at the changelog.

by **Sven** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:38 am

I'm going to make a guess after doing a bit of testing.

The game, on COP activation, does a HP missile and cost missile search starting from the y and x = 0, and then proceeding right until x ends. it goes onto the next row and continues until it has scanned the whole board. at this point, it has two potential shot locations. the HP missile, and the cost missile

after the board has been scanned, it chooses between launching either the HP or the cost missile depending on where the center point of the missiles are on the board. the northern most one is where the missile fires. in case of a tie, it fires on the western most one. it will always do this, regardless of reloading.

if you need clarification just ask and i'll try and explain better

by **GipFace** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:43 pm

Yeah. I thought it was fairly straightforward.

Anyway, is anyone willing to put more testing into Tabitha's COP? I'll update the damage chart when we have concrete proof as to how it targets.

by **shoe-sama** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:12 am

if you meant attacker's hp then you should've put it in front lol

by **shoe-sama** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:10 am

defense is incorrect on damage formula at bottom

only terrain def scales, unless they changed it

basically terrain adds +hp def
and regular def doesn't change

by **GipFace** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:14 am

You're right.

Missile targets:

13 infantry ($19500)
12 mechs ($30000)
4 mechs ($10000)
2 rockets ($30000)

They're all spaced far enough so that none of them overlap. Five trials for each test.

13 infantry vs. 12 mechs
3x infantry
2x mechs

12 mechs vs. 2 rockets
5x mechs

4 mechs vs. 2 rockets
5x mechs

13 infantry vs. 12 mechs vs. 4 mechs vs. 2 rockets
5x infantry

It's not conclusive, so it'll need much more testing.

by **Sven** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:54 am

Test it a couple more times to make sure it's not 50/50 like Von Bolt's SCOP?

by **GipFace** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:47 am

Nope, it's money concentration, I just tested it. It will hit 12 mechs over 13 infantry.

by **Sven** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:36 am

is tabitha's missile hp based, i read that somewhere, sorry if i mentioned it already

by **RadioShadow** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:28 am

GaoGaoStegosaurus wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

Yup. See those lines under the tables? That's where he explained how all COZ have default +10/+10 and such. Hehe, watch out for these fine prints!

No one reads the fine print! I didn't realise all COs get a default of +10/+10 offence and defence. Carter is cool now!

by **Shift Breaker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:10 am

But even so, you can't deny that Interceptors make 'em sound cool.

I mean, fighters, yeah, that's nice, but Interceptors really gives off that "You're MINE, bitch" vibe.

Though the other translations do suck ass.

by **Frankdeslimste** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:38 pm

Fighters do too less damage against bombers, 65% come on <_<

And I'm glad I got the American version, the European translation sucks.

by **GaoGaoStegosaurus** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:15 pm

RadioShadow wrote:Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

Yup. See those lines under the tables? That's where he explained how all COZ have default +10/+10 and such. Hehe, watch out for these fine prints!

by **RadioShadow** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:07 pm

Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

by **Xenesis** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:18 pm

Hey Gipface, can I put this up on WWN's front page when I finish setting up the DoR section?

If it's okay with you, I might split the damage chart from it, but apart from that I'd put up the original version too.

by **RadioShadow** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:28 am

Nope, it was Lin in the Euro version.

by **Terragent** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:49 pm

I thought Lin got changed to Ling as well.

by **GipFace** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:28 pm

Done.

Mech = Bazooka
Bike = Motorbike
Md Tank = Heavy Tank
War Tank = Mega Tank
Artillery = Mech Gun (yuck)
Rig = Mobile Workshop
Fighter = Interceptor
Duster = Fighter (watch out!)
Seaplane = Ship Plane
B-Copter = Battle Heli
T-Copter = Trans Heli
Gunboat = Missile Boat

Bet you didn't get these:
Mist = Fog
Beach = Shoal
Veteran = Ace

And yeah, all the COs besides Lin got their name changed. It seems that the European translation is a more literal translation, and therefore a lot clunkier.

by **RadioShadow** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:12 am

Would you mind making an alternative one for people who own the Euro version since the names and some unit's are different?

I can easily list the changes tomorrow.

by **GipFace** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:56 pm

Okay, version C had +0/+10 per terrain star. Obviously that was a major slip-up. It's actually +0/+1 per terrain star per HP. So that's been fixed. Of course, since terrain is important for figuring out damage, how could I not include the terrain star chart? Facilities are the factory, airport, and seaport, because I couldn't fit all three in.

Also, since many of the units themselves have changed, there is now MP/V/A/F info! Among the changes are fighter and carrier both having 5 vision, Sub having 6 MP, and tank having 6 ammo.

This chart now has everything but the kitchen sink. I'm sure everyone has memorized unit costs and indirect range, and the names of the CO powers aren't vital for gameplay. But hey, if you want me to try to cram those in...

by **Treedweller** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:13 pm

I've also printed it, and it's the most valuable resource for AW DoR so far. Thanks much Gippy pie!

As for Carriers, they'll see use in FoW maps on occasion as surprise units, so I wouldn't worry about their lack of use too much. Besides, from my experiences thus far, the unit balance is superb, so I'll take one very situational Naval unit if it means the rest of them function quite well in their appropriate niches.

by **GaoGaoStegosaurus** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:09 pm

Outstanding work, GipFace. Printed!

Kireato wrote:Oh yeah, your calculations definitely show that the Carrier isn't going to be used much. Since in the end the seaplane costs more than the bomber and doesn't do the job as well... It would have been preferable for the carrier to act as an airport instead...

Yah, I kind of see Carrier as an over-priced naval airport now. Being able to repair two Bombers/Fighters/etc and then launch them right back out the next turn with two more HP is nice, but the price tag is just too high; I'd rather make Temporary Airports instead.

by **Sven** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:46 pm

Most impressive!

Printed!

by **GipFace** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:41 pm

The damage chart now lists the COs, damage formula, and other bonuses. It's an all-in-one cheat sheet! Hopefully there aren't any errors.

I sorted the COs by radius then alphabetical because I thought that looked best.

by **Sirdangolot5** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:33 am

*cough* i mean, uh, bikes and mech totally obsolete infantry, 'cept as meatshields.

As... um... listed above.

by **DTaeKim** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:42 am

What does this have to do with the damage chart?

by **Sirdangolot5** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:26 am

This game's graphics and 2 main characters (Isabella and Will) remind me almost sickeningly of Radiant Dawn and Fire Emblem games in general.

I miss AW1 graphics. They were so duotone and awesome...

by **Kireato** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:03 am

I checked. It's 55.

And no lol, rounding gives the same result when you multiply or divide by 1.

But 55*1.1=60.5, rounded to 60
And 60/1.1= 54.54 rounded to 54.

(On the other hand 55/1.1 gives 50 rounded to 50 And 50*1.1 gives 55. So what that tells you is that in the game the damage formula is first handled this way: [[base damage * firepower]/defence] with[] being moments when you round down. Dunno where HP is placed in the formula and how rounding down affects it yet. Not important enough for me not to wait for the game coming out here first.)

AND NOW I GOTTA GO TO BED YES.

by **Sven** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:56 am

you mean like

100/100

by **Kireato** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:55 am

I'm fairly sure it's 55.

You'll see 54 if the attacking and defending Co have same firepower and defence, due to rounding in the middle of the formula.

by **shoe-sama** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:41 am

you need better glasses

actually I'm too lazy to test mine lol so maybe it is 54% but who cares

by **Sven** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:26 am

my inf vs inf in testing was 54%

EXPLAIN PLEASE

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CO and Base Damage Chart (56k Warning)

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