Can someone reccomend a GBA emulator and a AW2 ROM?

Discussion of hacking, editing and developments in Advance Wars games.
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golden_cow2

Can someone reccomend a GBA emulator and a AW2 ROM?

Post by golden_cow2 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:49 am

Or is that illegal to say at this board? (I have both a GBA and a copy of AW2 so I can download the ROM)
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Nuro
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Post by Nuro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:10 am

It still is not legal to download a rom even if you have the game. Emulators are not illegal though. Use Visual Boy Advance.
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Post by thefalman » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:11 am

Well, Visualboyadvance is a decent emulator. Get version 1.7.2. though, later versions don't seem to like AW2.

As far as a ROM is concerned, we can't link you to one. However, I'm sure that if you talk to some of the board members, they would certainly not give you one. Ever. In a million years. ;)
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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:12 am

Emulator: VisualBoy Advance.
ROM: For legal purposes, you have to find that on your own.

EDIT: WOAHMG POST AVALANCHE!
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golden_cow2

Post by golden_cow2 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:49 am

Hm. I thought ROMS were legal... (Lol why have a legal emulator if ROMS are illegal?)

Do I detect sarcasm in thefalman's post? *sniffs air*
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Post by thefalman » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:05 am

Hmm, what is this sarcasm you speak of? ;)
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golden_cow2

Post by golden_cow2 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:54 am

Well my good Sir, it is when a person says something but they don't really mean it! ^_^
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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:58 am

golden_cow2 wrote:Hm. I thought ROMS were legal... (Lol why have a legal emulator if ROMS are illegal?)
ROMs are under copyright unless they've been released to the public domain (in most cases in America, this occurs 70 years after the product has been released, or if the creator decides to do so earlier). They're the data, from the game, and in the instance of having it on your computer, copied to your hard drive. See, it's illegal (but unenforceable) to copy copyrighted material (at least in the U.S. Don't know about anywhere else, but I believe Canada lucks out due to a "personal use" clause and writeable media tax). The big part, though, is that it is illegal (and enforceable) to distribute copied copyrighted material. See, even if you have the game, I would be giving you another copy of the game. Ideally, only the stores can give you another copy of the game, and that's at a fee. If you have two copies, you should have legally paid for two copies.

The emulator is legal because it is a program written by somebody that tells a computer how to use a ROM, and the author has chosen a license that states that the program can be distributed (whether shareware or freeware)- the copyright holder allows the distribution of the product. There is no law stating that you can't have a program that can read copyrighted data- if there was one, our media players wouldn't be allowed to play media. Emulators can also be used to play public-domain ROMs, or homebrew ROMs, which are legal. Just because a program can do something illegal, doesn't mean that it only does something illegal (though, on the case of emulators, it does tend to lean that way for a good amount of users).

And if you really want to get technical, not all emulators work that way because Nintendo uses a copyrighted Emulator in Animal Crossing and SEGA used an emulator for several of the Sonic PC rereleases. The reason why those are legal is because the ROMs used in the emulator are part of (or are) the game, which you purchased.
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Post by golden_cow2 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:19 am

Thanks for explaining it for me n_n
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Post by legoman727 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:36 am

gc2 - don't AIM me, and we won't talk about rom locations......
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Post by Bog » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:01 am

Nuro wrote:It still is not legal to download a rom even if you have the game. Emulators are not illegal though. Use Visual Boy Advance.
No. If you own the game, and YOU bought it (AKA not a present.) YOU can download a rom. At least that's the UK law, it might be different over in the states. (And the USA have different laws for different states.)

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Post by TheChronoMaster » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:22 am

You can actually CREATE a legal ROM, not DOWNLOAD one. Difference.
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Post by Bog » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:25 am

No. Wrong. I'm sure of it.

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Post by TheChronoMaster » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 am

It's illegal to download a ROM, or distribute a ROM, but not to make a ROM.
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Post by HPD » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:14 am

TCM is right, actually, although I'm also not quite sure how the Dutch gouvernment sees this. I personally think that they tolerate it, much in the same way that they tolerate drugs..
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:43 am

My uncle's a lawyer, I will ask him next time I see him.

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:27 am

You know what's wrong with today's generation of video game players? They think they're so cool that they don't need instruction manuals. And instruction manuals are good things, I'll have you know. Back in the olden days, we didn't have Omochao to tell us to press A button to jump or Lakitu to teach us how to use the control stick- that's what the instruction manual was for! Bought a used game without a manual? HA! You're screwed! You don't know how to play the game!

How am I going to relate this rant to the topic at hand? Well, let's take a look at the page 40 of the Advance Wars Dual Strike instruction manual. The page itself isn't actually numbered, but it comes right after page 39, so i'ts not too difficult to find.
Important Legal Information
Copying of any video game for any Nintendo system is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws.
First sentence'd.

Again, that's mainly Nintendo being a little bit short-sighted, as "Personal use" copies are legal within certain countries. However, in court, Nintendo actually could use everything on that page to their advantage, and other information on that page (such as "Backup and Archival" copies not being necessary) really leaves you without a leg to stand on. It is argueable that Nintendo is lying by stating that archival copies are not needed (battery failure FTW!) but not really practical, especially considering that policy has existed since the 80's.

So, yes, making a ROM is also illegal unless your country states specifically that it is legal. There's absolutely no way in the world you would get caught making ROMs for personal use, though. So it's more of an ethics question.
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:37 am

Oracle of Wuffing wrote:You know what's wrong with today's generation of video game players? They think they're so cool that they don't need instruction manuals. And instruction manuals are good things, I'll have you know. Back in the olden days, we didn't have Omochao to tell us to press A button to jump or Lakitu to teach us how to use the control stick- that's what the instruction manual was for! Bought a used game without a manual? HA! You're screwed! You don't know how to play the game!

How am I going to relate this rant to the topic at hand? Well, let's take a look at the page 40 of the Advance Wars Dual Strike instruction manual. The page itself isn't actually numbered, but it comes right after page 39, so i'ts not too difficult to find.
Important Legal Information



Copying of any video game for any Nintendo system is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws.
First sentence'd.

Again, that's mainly Nintendo being a little bit short-sighted, as "Personal use" copies are legal within certain countries. However, in court, Nintendo actually could use everything on that page to their advantage, and other information on that page (such as "Backup and Archival" copies not being necessary) really leaves you without a leg to stand on. It is argueable that Nintendo is lying by stating that archival copies are not needed (battery failure FTW!) but not really practical, especially considering that policy has existed since the 80's.

So, yes, making a ROM is also illegal unless your country states specifically that it is legal. There's absolutely no way in the world you would get caught making ROMs for personal use, though. So it's more of an ethics question.

Thing is, it's not illegal to make a backup of something. So if you own the game and download the rom, it's ok.

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:41 am

No, it actually is illegal to make a backup of copyrighted property. A backup is a copy. Once again, that's assuming you're not in a country that allows legal personal-use copies.
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:49 am

Oracle of Wuffing wrote:No, it actually is illegal to make a backup of copyrighted property. A backup is a copy. Once again, that's assuming you're not in a country that allows legal personal-use copies.
Installing a PC game basically involves copying the files from a CD/DVD. Is that illegal then? No, don't think so..... <_<

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:59 am

...I assume you've read the License Agreement that comes with those games? You know, that thing that says, "You agree to install one and only one copy of this game on a computer", and not to make any other copies of the software? You know, those things can be considered legally binding contracts.
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Post by TheChronoMaster » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:28 am

Boggy, you're fighting a losing battle. If this was an RTS, I'd cut my losses, and retreat.
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:03 am

Oracle of Wuffing wrote:...I assume you've read the License Agreement that comes with those games? You know, that thing that says, "You agree to install one and only one copy of this game on a computer", and not to make any other copies of the software? You know, those things can be considered legally binding contracts.
So doing a LAN game inside your home is illegal?

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Post by TheChronoMaster » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:18 am

bogman wrote:
Oracle of Wuffing wrote:...I assume you've read the License Agreement that comes with those games? You know, that thing that says, "You agree to install one and only one copy of this game on a computer", and not to make any other copies of the software? You know, those things can be considered legally binding contracts.
So doing a LAN game inside your home is illegal?
Only if you use the copies for anything other than a LAN game, obviously.
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:24 am

TheChronoMaster wrote:
bogman wrote: So doing a LAN game inside your home is illegal?
Only if you use the copies for anything other than a LAN game, obviously.
But according to Oracle, I can't even install it on the secondary PC. :P

Who's winning now?

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Post by thefalman » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:32 am

Nintendo's Lawyers? >_>
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Post by Shift Breaker » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:11 am

They always win somehow...*Shakes fist*
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:22 am

No. It's perfectly legal to possess a CLEAN ROM. IE an exact replica of the game. No added dancing Marios or whatever when it starts up. That is, as long as you own the game and YOU bought it. Not a present.

Better agree with me or I'll report the whole of WWN! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

(Joking)

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Post by Shift Breaker » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:09 am

...Someone needs to hack Mario into AW2. Seriously. Mario, Luigi, Toad, Peach, it'd be awesome. Luigi has a better jump, so he could boost Air units & powers could grant a movement boost of sorts. Lower all other units. Mario is an all rounder, so just edit Andy's sprite. Toad....Well, going by MK:DD rules, he should basically be adder w/ the faster(further moving) units.

On second thoughts, screw it. They'd be too similar to the COs we have now.
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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:19 am

bogman wrote:But according to Oracle, I can't even install it on the secondary PC. :P

Who's winning now?
You may be suprised to know that that is true in most cases. If the EULA states that you may install multiple copies, then you are allowed to do so. However, many License Agreements state that you need to buy separate licenses for separate installations.

Example:
Macromedia EULA
2. License Grants

The licenses granted in this Section 2 are subject to the terms and conditions set forth in this EULA:

(a) Subject to Section 2(b), you may install and use the Software on a single computer; OR install and store the Software on a storage device, such as a network server, used only to install the Software on your other computers over an internal network, provided you have a license for each separate computer on which the Software is installed and run. Except as otherwise specifically provided in Section 2(b), a license for the Software may not be shared, installed or used concurrently on different computers.

---

As you can see, this license agreement states that you may only install one copy on a single computer or storage device, and you need to have multiple licenses to put the program on other computers.
No. It's perfectly legal to possess a CLEAN ROM.
Then please, explain why Nintendo is threatening to prosecute "violators"- specifically, those who make a copy of their game?
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Post by TheChronoMaster » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:20 am

bogman wrote:No. It's perfectly legal to possess a CLEAN ROM. IE an exact replica of the game. No added dancing Marios or whatever when it starts up. That is, as long as you own the game and YOU bought it. Not a present.

Better agree with me or I'll report the whole of WWN! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

(Joking)
Actually, an edited ROM is more legal than an unedited one.

Both are illegal though...
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:28 am

Oracle of Wuffing wrote:
bogman wrote:But according to Oracle, I can't even install it on the secondary PC. :P

Who's winning now?
You may be suprised to know that that is true in most cases. If the EULA states that you may install multiple copies, then you are allowed to do so. However, many License Agreements state that you need to buy separate licenses for separate installations.

Example:
Macromedia EULA
2. License Grants

The licenses granted in this Section 2 are subject to the terms and conditions set forth in this EULA:

(a) Subject to Section 2(b), you may install and use the Software on a single computer; OR install and store the Software on a storage device, such as a network server, used only to install the Software on your other computers over an internal network, provided you have a license for each separate computer on which the Software is installed and run. Except as otherwise specifically provided in Section 2(b), a license for the Software may not be shared, installed or used concurrently on different computers.

---

As you can see, this license agreement states that you may only install one copy on a single computer or storage device, and you need to have multiple licenses to put the program on other computers.
No. It's perfectly legal to possess a CLEAN ROM.
Then please, explain why Nintendo is threatening to prosecute "violators"- specifically, those who make a copy of their game?
It's not a copy if you own the game already. It's just a backup. If they take you to court all you need is proof of purchase. (And I've kept all the recipts of all the games I've bought.)

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:30 am

It's not a copy if you own the game already. It's just a backup. If they take you to court all you need is proof of purchase. (And I've kept all the recipts of all the games I've bought.)
Once again, let's give a round of applause for the "Important Legal Information" page of the Advance Wars Dual Strike Manual:
"Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.
Whether you believe it or not, Back-Ups are copies. This is decreed by the authors and manufacturers, in this case, the Nintendo/Intelligent Systems and their programming teams.

To further prove the point:
Dictionary.com wrote:Computer Science. A copy of a program or file that is stored separately from the original.
When it comes to video games, you bought one game and bought the license only for that game, which states that copying its data is illegal- and implies that there are no circumstances where it is legal to do so.
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:57 am

You do realise that if what you're saying is true, I could quite easily get the whole of WWN in trouble.

The laws might be different in the US version. In the Euro version it's different, but I haven't looked in the manual. I looked in the library at school today on a book of English laws. It DOES say that you can copy programs as long as you don't use it for commercial purposes or just giving away the program on the copied disk/cart/floppy/etc. I'll rent out the book and quote it.

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Post by Mr Dev » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:19 am

Wuffy?

None of this has to do with why you haven't participated in hacking recently? :?

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:28 am

You do realise that if what you're saying is true, I could quite easily get the whole of WWN in trouble.
Oh, really? We can get into a whole lot of trouble for something we willingly accept as illegal!? I never would have guessed! Not in a bagillion years! Gee, thanks for the very important information that would undoubtedly be impossible to think up of! I'll file it into the "Very Important Information" box!
*Prints out quote*
*Drops it into a paper shredder*
bogman wrote:It DOES say that you can copy programs as long as you don't use it for commercial purposes or just giving away the program on the copied disk/cart/floppy/etc. I'll rent out the book and quote it.
The license of the game is a contract.
A contract is an agreement between two or more persons (individuals, businesses, organizations or government agencies) to do, or to refrain from doing, a particular thing in exchange for something of value.
FreeAdvice
As such, it legit that you give up your privelige to copy the game as you agree with the license. As the contract is on a personal level, it trumps broader law fields unless it interferes with statutory law... And guess what else is on that page of the instruction manual?
AWDS Instruction Manual wrote:The contents of this notice do not interfere with your statutory rights.
It doesn't matter if you've found a law that states you can copy software- you agreed to a contract stating that you won't. In return, you get to play one copy of the game.
rimdev wrote:None of this has to do with why you haven't participated in hacking recently?
That... Has nothing to do with the topic at hand, back on topic! XD No, seriously, I've been drawing pictures...
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Post by Bog » Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:03 am

Whatever I'm fed up of arguing with you, Oracle. We all live in different countries with DIFFERENT LAWS! GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD! :x

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Post by thefalman » Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:30 am

You know, I'm not even sure why there's an argument here. AW2 and AWDS are both copyrighted internationally by Nintendo, meaning you need their express permission to replicate them. I'm pretty sure there's no ifs or buts here: ROMs are illegal, full stop.
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I swear, you two are the worst couple ever. You've somehow managed to PDA on the internet through text. - Xenesis

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:21 am

Well, bogman... Since you're oh-so-tired of "arguing" with me, it appears that you'll have to argue with thefalman. I look forward to reading your contrived reasons as to how a license agreement is not a valid contract, and how the legal information in the instruction manuals has been illegal for... Nearly 20 years now.
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Post by thefalman » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:33 am

Oddly enough, Nintendo seems to have neglected to put any legal detailed legal info in the UK instruction manual beyond 'Copyright Nintendo/Intelligent Systems 2005' etc... however, Copyright is still Copyright.
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It took me a solid three minutes to fully comprehend your hair, Fallers. - Deoxy
Yes fal, you've got a good sense of style, you're clean shaven, and the cat on your head dares not move itself.
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I swear, you two are the worst couple ever. You've somehow managed to PDA on the internet through text. - Xenesis

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