Advance Wars 2 - Balance Hack - Version 2.1

Discussion of hacking, editing and developments in Advance Wars games.
Remember, no Rom Requests
User avatar
Hans Stockmann
Rank: NEW META
Location: Terragent's Wardrobe

Post by Hans Stockmann » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:06 pm

I second the Vs Sturm proposal.
Image

User avatar
DTaeKim
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: War Room Legend
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:48 pm

Can someone enlighten me as to why Sonja doesn't get her piercing vision bonus for her SCOP?

Oh, and I would very much like the idea of Vs. Sturm.
What can change the nature of a man?

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:33 pm

Sonja needs to be nerfed big time.

User avatar
x0_000
Rank: Clothes shopping is NP-Complete.
Location: a thing

Post by x0_000 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:35 am

I already hacked vs. Sturm in my hack... Except his SCOP is 8 stars 4 damage meteor and 80/140 stats.

<_<

>_>
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

User avatar
DTaeKim
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: War Room Legend
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Post by DTaeKim » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:43 am

bog-bog wrote:Sonja needs to be nerfed big time.
Still? I thought once she lost her day-to-day vision bonus, it would be fine.
What can change the nature of a man?

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:48 am

Keep vision bonus. Take away the hidden HP. Allow her to see into Reefs d2d, but not Forests. Recons should be 120/120 with her, because of thier importance in FoW, and Infantry and Mechs should get +20% firepower and defence on a mountain. (Including the +30% defence, making it +50% defence.)

User avatar
x0_000
Rank: Clothes shopping is NP-Complete.
Location: a thing

Post by x0_000 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:44 am

You can't hack seeing into reefs only IIRC.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

User avatar
thefalman
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: Humble Hero
Location: Bed.

Post by thefalman » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:06 am

Meh, I don't think Sonja needs any unit boosts. The day-to-day vision bonus is the most screwy thing about her... I reckon she's fine in this version of the hack. The reason she doesn't get the piercing vision on SCOP is to make the COP more worthwhile.
Image
It took me a solid three minutes to fully comprehend your hair, Fallers. - Deoxy
Yes fal, you've got a good sense of style, you're clean shaven, and the cat on your head dares not move itself.
You look awesome. - Shift Breaker

I swear, you two are the worst couple ever. You've somehow managed to PDA on the internet through text. - Xenesis

User avatar
Hans Stockmann
Rank: NEW META
Location: Terragent's Wardrobe

Post by Hans Stockmann » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:37 pm

Something I agree with wholeheartedly. My favourite COs are the ones where the COP has an incentive to use over the SCOP.

Then again, I was happier with only COPs and no SCOPs fullstop.
Image

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:00 am

Hans Stockmann wrote:Something I agree with wholeheartedly. My favourite COs are the ones where the COP has an incentive to use over the SCOP.

Then again, I was happier with only COPs and no SCOPs fullstop.
So you prefer Colin over other COs, mister broken?

User avatar
x0_000
Rank: Clothes shopping is NP-Complete.
Location: a thing

Post by x0_000 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:13 am

That's a flawed argument and you know it mister.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:38 am

Everyone on WWN will find one fault with me. From posting pornography to having a comma instead of a fullstop, they always point fingers at me. (No, I never have or will post pornography.)

User avatar
DTaeKim
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: War Room Legend
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Post by DTaeKim » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:43 am

If you haven't posted pornography, then why bother mentioning it?

Thanks for clarifying why Sonja doesn't get piercing vision for Counter Break.
What can change the nature of a man?

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:52 am

I was making a point that I get blamed for everything around here.

User avatar
Kireato

Post by Kireato » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:56 am

*spills some cookies*

>_>
<_<

BOG BOG! HE'S THE ONE WHO DONE IT!!!

*runs*

More seriously, quit acting like we molest you every time you post. No one's been pointing fingers at you. They've been poiting out that what you posted is wrong and that's quite true. How else do you want people to tell it to you?

Ontopic: Nothing really...

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:06 am

No, just some of it seems a bit petty. "ZOMG HE CANT SPELL BAN HIM!"

User avatar
HPD
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Mentat
Location: The Mountain

Post by HPD » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:23 am

Would you mind taking this discussion elsewhere and not clutter up this topic with it?
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

User avatar
thefalman
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: Humble Hero
Location: Bed.

Post by thefalman » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:45 am

I'm with HPD on this one.
Image
It took me a solid three minutes to fully comprehend your hair, Fallers. - Deoxy
Yes fal, you've got a good sense of style, you're clean shaven, and the cat on your head dares not move itself.
You look awesome. - Shift Breaker

I swear, you two are the worst couple ever. You've somehow managed to PDA on the internet through text. - Xenesis

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:13 am

heropsychodreamer01 wrote:Would you mind taking this discussion elsewhere and not clutter up this topic with it?
I was answering his question. Illegal, now, eh? God, I love sarcasm.

User avatar
thefalman
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: Humble Hero
Location: Bed.

Post by thefalman » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:48 am

Bog, this started with you randomly having a go at Pichu (ironically, by asking a question):
bog-bog wrote:So you prefer Colin over other COs, mister broken?
Which was incredibly pointless and unrelated to the discussion in any way.
Image
It took me a solid three minutes to fully comprehend your hair, Fallers. - Deoxy
Yes fal, you've got a good sense of style, you're clean shaven, and the cat on your head dares not move itself.
You look awesome. - Shift Breaker

I swear, you two are the worst couple ever. You've somehow managed to PDA on the internet through text. - Xenesis

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:05 am

thefalman wrote:Bog, this started with you randomly having a go at Pichu (ironically, by asking a question):
bog-bog wrote:So you prefer Colin over other COs, mister broken?
Which was incredibly pointless and unrelated to the discussion in any way.
I wasn't pointing fingers or flaming, I was just pointing out the only CO that has a COP better than his/er SCOP is Colin. Sorry if it came out wrong.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:57 am

Balance Hack's been updated to version 1.6.. You'll have to read the first post yourself for the updates, because they're quite numerous.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:21 am

To Paraphrase Linkman's opinion:

'I basically hate everything you've done.'

<_<;
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
Shift Breaker
Rank: Combo Chicken
Location: Definitely WWN. Really.

Post by Shift Breaker » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:14 am

O_O

Well Done Xen! I Like it! Maybe Hachi Needs Tweaking, but I like what you've done with some of the COs.

EDIT: Hold on...Why is Sturm's power meter xxxxxX? I thought it was possible to do XXXXXX, ignoring the power completly.

EDITV2:150/??? Stats for 5 Stars? Woah...And why call it No CO Power? As in the Power itself.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

User avatar
Sven

Post by Sven » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:00 am

I do believe you've nerfed Hachi and Colin. Or at the very least, people will start noticing that PoM is just as ridiculous as Gold Rush.

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:05 am

Kanbei needs toning down too.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:26 am

Shift Breaker wrote:O_O

Well Done Xen! I Like it! Maybe Hachi Needs Tweaking, but I like what you've done with some of the COs.

EDIT: Hold on...Why is Sturm's power meter xxxxxX? I thought it was possible to do XXXXXX, ignoring the power completly.

EDITV2:150/??? Stats for 5 Stars? Woah...And why call it No CO Power? As in the Power itself.
The hell? It Should be XXXXXX. <_<;

Are you sure you're using a Clean original ROM? Like did you apply it over the last balance beta or something?
I do believe you've nerfed Hachi and Colin. Or at the very least, people will start noticing that PoM is just as ridiculous as Gold Rush.
Heh. Well, I'm pretty happy with Colin now, but yeah. PoM may need a nerf.

Kanbei needs toning down too.
How so?
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
Shift Breaker
Rank: Combo Chicken
Location: Definitely WWN. Really.

Post by Shift Breaker » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:34 am

You know Xen, I think I might have.That's explain the 7 Star Hyper Upgrade. Also, I like the little tweak you've made on the Vs. Mode Info Bar. Xen's Balance Hack Version 1.6. If you done that for the previous versions, I haven't noticed.

Only now, It seems to freeze up when I see Sturm's Status Screen, and Andy(Only one I've checked) has either -1 or -2 movement.

Agh. I'll do it later...

SUPERQUICKEDIT!!:*Applies Pointer Hack*

Edit. Ohhhhh Yeah:Andy's problems are gone, but Sturm's status screen still seems to freeze up though.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

User avatar
Kireato

Post by Kireato » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:12 am

Nell seems fine, if not a bit too bland.

You killed Andy's firepower... Ah... Well, I guess that works.

There is little incentive to use Max's SCOP. I'd like him to have +1 direct movement during his SCOP...

Sami... She seems okay.

Hachi: He's going to be buying his funerals very soon... The COP is fine and interesting, but the SCOP NEEDS to lower his cost far more...

Olaf: fine

Grit: Oh God. He may have some OHKOs... But seriously, for the direct nerf he's got, he DESERVES 150 firepower indirect... I'd rather have him more balanced in more maps, as in destroy his nerf and keep his range strength to his powers. 120 firepower indirect and 90 firepower directs stay decent...

Colin: It works. Though I'd say that 70% cost works fine with the COP too... *looks at Hachi again* *nods knowingly*

Kanbei: Please make the COP more worthwhile, a la AWDS. A slight bit more firepower works.

Sonja: I have my doubts about that SCOP. In FOW, you'd use her COP way too much... I'd still add piercing vision... URG.

Sensei: YAY!

Eagle: Bleh. He's better. LD still annoys me by it's uselessness...

Drake: He, uhm, he does halve fuel... Correct?

Lash: WOOHOO!

Adder: Heh. I don't think anyone will ever change the use of his COP.

Sturm: I'd rather 80/120. His defence never enters abuse like Kanbei's does.

Cruiser: changes seem fine.

Lander: Cool.

Missiles: wouldn't it be better to change its range a bit? Lower limit at 2 instead of 3?

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:47 am

Max: Hmm...Although, I have to say, I quite like him as he is. There's plenty of incentive for the SCOP and it's insane chokebusting potential.

Hachi: Yeah. Possibly. I don't think I really want to go beyond about 65% though, as at that point he hits about 1.5 times buying power. As it is, he gets about 1.4 times buying power.

Grit: Yeah, that's probably what I'll do next version.

Colin: I think the cost is fine as it is. At 75% Cost, it gives him 1.2 times as much buying power as his day to day. It is a 2-star COP after all.

Kanbei: Hmm. I dunno. 140% firepower for all units is pretty nice.

Sonja: Yeah. She's a bugger like that. Maybe I should.

Drake: Yeah. I just forgot to note it. <_<;

Sturm: While that's true, he also gets the free movement. 5% defence is a small price to pay.

Missiles: I guess now that I've changed Grit, that might actually work.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
GaroNinja
Location: A Shining New World

Post by GaroNinja » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:13 pm

Let's see.

Grit: Killed. 80/100 is a HUGE weakness, and makes victory very difficult for direct units to win even with the first strike. And direct units make up a lot of them (I believe there are ten? Eleven?). You just don't notice it a lot with Grit because the extra range is powerful enough to make indirects his main force. 130% attack power is a lot, but when it's only for four units (three, really, as the extra attack means next to nothing for missile units) it's not enough. Maybe 120/100 indirects and 90/100 directs? Seems Kireato had the same thought before me >_>.


Colin: I really think that's overdoing it. 90/90 is a huge weakness, especially when every unit has it. It's not worth a 10% discount. I don't think that 90% costs are enough for Colin to get a real capture advantage (and certainly not one better than Orange Star gets anyway), which means the only real advantage is that he'll get 1 more unit for every 9 his opponent builds. 1 more crappy budget unit, that is. His direct units can't fight well either on defense or offense, and he won't be able to meatwall reliably enough for his 90/90 indirects to do the trick, either. Gold Rush is still pretty good, though, at least at 2 stars. I suppose Power of Money is still very strong, but I doubt he'll last long enough with those day to day stats to make it matter...

Now that I think about it, if you make sure to abuse Gold Rush for buying sprees... He might work out, after all. Semi-disregard that rant. I don't really like it when COPs are used to balance out day to day stats, though .-.


Sturm: Bleh. Well, he's balanced now, but he's just not cool. 80/115 is fine, since he can't really use the movement to any effect. (I could never play as a CO with a maximum attack of 80% for all units under any circumstances, but that's personal taste). But a 6 star SCOP, especially when it's his only one... Just isn't flashy enough. Personally, I think the Campaign mode Sturm is much preferable to the VS mode in terms of final bossitude. Von Bolt is a good example of a balanced final boss that still keeps that final boss flair, but I don't think his balance style would work well in AW2...

None of the other CO changes really strike my ire or my fancy. I'm purposefully ignoring Drake because that would require taking into account the new Cruisers, which is WAY too much theory wars for a single post at night. I like the 110/110 stats, though; No one hit kos to my landers, thank you very much, but I don't mind sinking yours all the time with my battleships and submarines.

Theres Advance Wars hentai? Who the Hell would draw that? There are far better things to draw Hentai of. - Marsillo
Like me. - Blame Game

I was going to post a "Why'd you buy when you could rent?" but then I remembered Austrailia is a gimped continent where people build careers on raping crocodiles and there's no places to rent stuff. - Marsillo

User avatar
Kireato

Post by Kireato » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:06 am

O_O
Colin has 90% cost???

He should have 80% cost...
Heck 90% firepower and taking 110% of enemy attacks means he's only 81% as efficient as a 100/100 unit. And the price is thus very correct.

@Xen
Hachi: That's still a 6 stars super. You've got to realize that his COP hardly provides a great advantage anymore and that he has nothing which gives him a blast... (3 stars to get reinforcements quicker DEPENDING on the map... No day to day to support him means he'll depend on his SCOP which you made weaker than Gold rush used ONCE. )

I still wish you had differentiated him by killing his good luck and keeping his day to day cost. It makes a funny weakness to deal with, being unable to count on the usual luck and only getting what your units are worth...

Colin: Let's try to use Sensei's possible cash in: he basically gets 900 G per city and some additional copter power. Let's assume he completely joins his infantry. That's still 400 G per city and the advantage of meatshields, as well as additional firepower and capturing units... And that's a bit less than 1.4 times the buying power...

I'd rather give Colin Hachi's COP as it is originally... Costs and all that. Except Colin is still churning out only 90/90 units.

Sturm: He has no COP.
When there's no terrain star defence, his units are actually weaker than normal units. And that's quite a common situation. Same for situations where 1 movement cost on all terrains is useless...

I'd almost prefer to see him as a 100/100 CO with just having no movement problem...

Bog
Meteor Striked
Meteor Striked

Post by Bog » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:17 am

Kanbei is situationally overpowered; but there are too many of those situations. The only time he is properly balanced is on pretty large maps. I think his d2d should be 130/120. Keep his decrease the amound of attack and defence he gains from his COP, but leave the SCOP as it is. That's my thoughts.

And yes, Grit has been ruined.

x0_000x

Post by x0_000x » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:19 am

I had a hack with 80/120 Sturm with Perfect Movement during Clear and Rain, and he is a b**** to mess with. The +20% DEF helps a lot during battle, and then he has 90%, not 80% attack. <_<

User avatar
Kireato

Post by Kireato » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:32 am

80% attack basically gives the opponent the same type of defence as Sturm...

And Kanbei's day to day is fine.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:42 am

Kireato: Hachi's super is 5 stars, not 6. And no luck is a pretty crippling blow. It denies him a LOT of 2HKO and 1HKO and the like, not to mention making his units almost like having less firepower than Colin on the whole.

Colin: That logic is flawed. We should bump up Kanbei's costs to 144% by that reasoning. Hell, the original 130/130 Kanbei should have 169% costs. <_<;

And 50% cost for 2 stars is sick, no matter what way it's done. The most I'd consider lowering the cost is to 70%, and even then, it works as it is. We REALLY don't need to give Colin 1.8 times Buying power. Remember, Gold Rush was broken at 1.5x......(Yes, I do know it stacks, but even without abuse, Gold Rush was hideously powerful)

Remember, it's a frigging 2 Star CO power! It's supposed to have a noticable, not huge, but spammable effect!

Sturm: That's like saying that Jess is weaker than average on an Island Map, or Colin's weaker in predeployed. Duh.

There's always going to be some terrain defence, even if it's only plains for 125% defence. That's plenty enough to prevent 2HKO. Not to mention that even with 115% defence, his Infantry and Mech meatshields can't be wiped out in one hit without some kind of firepower boost. Then you can just abuse indirects.

Not to mention, as you would know better than anyone that Terrain defence in AW2 is far more effective than in AW1 when he got said stats.

Sturm is fine.

Bog-bog: Uh, that's powering him up from the current stats. He's currently 120/120 day to day, 140/130 COP and 150/150 SCOP....
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
GaroNinja
Location: A Shining New World

Post by GaroNinja » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:22 am

Yes, but keep in mind, 90% cost isn't going to garuantee Colin a great early game. He'll only get maybe one more infantry in the first few turns, and that's not going to translate into a major funds advantage (Like Colin can get now with 80% costs), which leaves him with exactly what he's paying for; extremely subpar units.

Theres Advance Wars hentai? Who the Hell would draw that? There are far better things to draw Hentai of. - Marsillo
Like me. - Blame Game

I was going to post a "Why'd you buy when you could rent?" but then I remembered Austrailia is a gimped continent where people build careers on raping crocodiles and there's no places to rent stuff. - Marsillo

User avatar
DTaeKim
Star CO
Star CO
Rank: War Room Legend
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Post by DTaeKim » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:27 am

Here's my opinion on some of these COs.

:hachids:
Keep his day-to-day bland, but restore his old CO meter and powers. Change Barter to 80% deployment costs and Merchant Union to 90% deployment costs and deployment from cities.

:colinds:
Colin day-to-day seems fine, but I agree that Gold Rush is ever so difficult to balance. I suggest we have Gold Rush reduce it's multiplier to 1.2x. Power of Money can stay the same.

:gritds:
I agree with Kireato here. Nerfing his indirect range bonus day-to-day seemed necessary, but 80% direct unit offense seems to be too much of a weakness. 120/100 indirects and 90/100 directs will work IMO.

:kanbeids:
20% offense for a 4-star power seems relatively overpriced, even for Kanbei. Maybe make his meter 3/7?

:sonjads:
Even though someone explained to me about the lack of piercing for her SCOP, I still think she needs it. At the very least, give her piercing for her SCOP.

Sturm: 80/120, just so we can have round numbers. :roll:
What can change the nature of a man?

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:32 am

GaroNinja wrote:Yes, but keep in mind, 90% cost isn't going to garuantee Colin a great early game. He'll only get maybe one more infantry in the first few turns, and that's not going to translate into a major funds advantage (Like Colin can get now with 80% costs), which leaves him with exactly what he's paying for; extremely subpar units.
It'll be even until combat starts. Then Colin can start spamming his CO power for more units and an economic, military and capturing advantage or wait for his SCOP and blast things around.

It's like Hachi says in his shop..do you get more units, or save up for his Super?
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
x0_000
Rank: Clothes shopping is NP-Complete.
Location: a thing

Post by x0_000 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:34 am

DTaeKim wrote: :colinds:
Colin day-to-day seems fine, but I agree that Gold Rush is ever so difficult to balance. I suggest we have Gold Rush reduce it's multiplier to 1.2x. Power of Money can stay the same.
We can't mess with the multiplier efficiently yet.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Multivac [Bot] and 0 guests