Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Talk about Advance Wars DS. Debate, laugh, cry, argue about everything to do with our favourite tag game here.
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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:14 am

I thought you had a TAS update :(

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:00 am

-STL- wrote:Update:

Code: Select all

  Map    TAS    Human(+)
   1      2       2
   2      6       2
   3     13       3
   4      5       3
   5      8       2
   6      5       3
   7     10       2
   8      8       4
   9     11       8
  10     10       2
  11      8       1
TAS Total Time: 1:26
Human Total: 1:58
I just made a playlist of TASes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJrnNxm ... Lv&index=3

and found that M5 has only 9″ with video, and the video description says “outdated”… what was the improvement to get 8″? I didn’t even find anything in this topic, must’ve been something we talked about on WLM…

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-STL-

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by -STL- » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:22 am

IIRC it was capturing the HQ without SCOP, which is a few frames faster in TAS but slower in human play.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:46 am

seriously? O_o I don’t remember SCOPing being slower… back in the topic I wrote it’s 5 frames faster, but I don’t know if that was before we figured out the turning off music trick

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-STL-

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by -STL- » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:36 pm

No, it was in fact using Sensei, your 9 seconds vid says 8 seconds (539 frames) is possible.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:35 am

For some reason me and Julian are brainstorming this again.

Jugger/Sami: Woods=1, Luck, Hachi, APC; Woods=1, Partner ×2, free skill: Partner Def for M3? M9 may become harder / APC for M10 and M9 swap? / Def for M10? / ???

Sami is mostly useless, maybe consider Koal? SCOP on M11 and M7 saves 1″ each. M10 is doable by most COs with 2× cap skill.

M1: 3″ 6 4HP Mechs are fast enough. Edit: Julian says 2″ is possible with insane luck and Neo suicide after 4 4HP Mech attacks. Plains vs. Plains best suicide setup: SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 658.14. Luck skill required in both cases.
M2: 10″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. Partner Atk +8% required.
M3: 15″? Jugger needs Woods=1 to navigate, Sami Partner Def could ward off a Mech attack and save time. Maybe use COP?
M4: 6″ Jugger SCOP, Soul of Hachi, Partner Atk ×2 and Luck required.
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 required.
M6: 7″ with 2 4sq MD moves? Luck required. Jugger gets 6″ with Cannon Guard (and Partner Atk +8%).
M7: 10″ D1 move 6, then 5, then 7 and Sami SCOP.
M8: 8″? Sami starts this and needs Woods=1 for D1. Julian’s notes: Recons go north, Tanks attack your MDs at Enemy D4
M9: 11″ strategy I wrote in the previous page. Maybe use COP/SCOP?
M10: 10″? Jugger starts this, but maybe Sami too. D2 APC + Woods=1 required. Swap not allowed for 10″, probably.
M11: 8″ Sami IL SCOP strategy.

Idea: for M1, use 3 attacks to bring Neo to 36% HP, then merge Mechs to 10HP for suicide: SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 306.92
Idea: Jugger with Mistwalker and a charged SCOP could save like 6″ on M3. “but hard to charge and insane for rng like 10 suicides but we would save 2 days and 2 Black Bombs”. Probably could help in M9 too.

Jugger/Koal: Woods=1, Luck, Mistwalker, APC; Cap+2, ??? APC + Woods=1 can help on M10 with an M9 swap, (Partner) Def may also help

M1: 2″ charging SCOP for M3 could be a problem though. = −1?
M2: 10″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. Partner Atk +8% required. = +0
M3: ??? SCOP Mistwalker for lotsa suicides. = −???
M4: 8″? D1 Artys; D2 Rockets+Arty, 4E1N, 4W1S; D3 3N1E, 4E1N, 2S2W, 4W1S; D4 Rockets OHKO BShip, 2S1W; D5 Rockets OHKO Carrier, Artys OHKO Lander+Cruiser. Requires Luck skill and Partner +8%. = +2?
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 required. = +0
M6: 7″ with 2 4sq MD moves? Jugger gets 6″ with Cannon Guard. +0
M7: 11″ D1 Stealth 5S Attack to 3HP; D4 TC to block MD going to Inf. = +1
M8: 8″ Same as IL strategy. = −1?
M9: ??? Mistwalker suicide madness. = −???
M10: 10″? Jugger drops, swap to Koal for capture if not started by Koal. = +0
M11: 9″ Koal COP, drop on Base. = +1

Non-Mistwalker alternative: Jugger/Koal: Woods=1, Luck, Hachi, APC; Cap+2, ??? APC + Woods=1 can help on M10 with an M9 swap, (Partner) Def may also help
Note: Luck may not be necessary on Jugger.

M1: 2″ 4 4HP Mechs + end day is fast enough. = −1?
M2: 10″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. = +0
M3: 15″? Jugger needs Woods=1 to navigate, Sami Partner Def could ward off a Mech attack and save time. Maybe use COP? = +0
M4: 6″ Jugger SCOP, Soul of Hachi required. = +0
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 required. = +0
M6: 7″ with 2 4sq MD moves? Jugger gets 6″ with Cannon Guard. +0
M7: 11″ D1 Stealth 5S Attack to 3HP; D4 TC to block MD going to Inf. = +1
M8: 8″ Same as IL strategy. = −1?
M9: 11″ Strategy I wrote in the previous page. Maybe use COP/SCOP? = +0
M10: 10″? Jugger drops, swap to Koal for capture if not started by Koal. = +0
M11: 9″ Koal COP, drop on Base. = +1

Eagle/Sami is apparently another possibility?

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:06 am

WHAT IN THE FUDGE JUST HAPPENED M4 6″ Soul of Hachi-less. Image Now that skill is completely useless for a run, because it doesn’t save time and doesn’t require less luck either, I think.

New stuff:

This is how the M2 AI behaves vs. Grit Piperunners:
order of movement: SE, SW, NE, NW
prioritize damage to the Neo, even if targeted
if targeted, move 1 square away prioritizing E; if impossible, move 2 prioritizing E; if impossible, don’t move
if targeted by 2 or more, move 1 square into at least 1 less; if impossible, move 2; if impossible, don’t move — not sure about this line, not using COP so it’s hard to test anyway.
if you’re not in your starting position, move as close as possible to your starting position as long as you are not targeted by doing so
next unit
wave 2
Sometimes it moves 2E over 1W, though… TAS’d 383 with COP.

Jugger+Sami: Woods=1, Luck, Mistwalker, APC; Woods=1, Partner ×2, free skill: Partner Def for M3? M9 may become harder / APC for M10 and M9 swap? / Def for M10? / ???
Note: Cannon Guard can replace Mistwalker to save 1″ on M6 (probably), but Mistwalker may be better than that.

Sami is mostly useless, maybe consider Koal? SCOP on M11 and M7 saves 1″ each. M10 is doable by most COs with 2× cap skill.

M1: 3″ 6 4HP Mechs are fast enough. Edit: Julian says 2″ is possible with insane luck and Neo suicide after 4 4HP Mech attacks. Plains vs. Plains best suicide setup: SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 658.14. Luck skill required in both cases.
M2: 9″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. Partner Atk +8% required, for Piperunner strat too.
M3: ??? SCOP Mistwalker for lotsa suicides.
M4: 6″ 2 Rockets 1 Arty. Requires Luck skill and Partner +13%.
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 or Bodyguard and Ind Def +12% required.
M6: 7″ with 1,1,4sq MD moves. Luck required. Jugger gets 6″ with Cannon Guard (and Partner Atk +8%).
M7: 10″ D1 move 6, then 5, then 7 and Sami SCOP.
M8: 8″? Sami starts this and needs Woods=1 for D1. Julian’s notes: Recons go north, Tanks attack your MDs at Enemy D4
M9: ??? Mistwalker suicide madness.
M10: 10″ Jugger starts this, but maybe Sami too. D2 APC required, D3 Woods=1 unless kill the AA strat.
M11: 8″ Sami IL SCOP strategy.

Idea: for M1, use 3 attacks to bring Neo to 36% HP, then merge Mechs to 10HP for suicide: SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 306.92

Jugger+Koal: Woods=1, Ind Def +12%, Mistwalker, APC; Cap+2, Partner ×3 old: APC can help on M10 with an M9 swap (kill AA strat)

M1: 2″ 4 4HP Mechs + end day is fast enough. Charging SCOP for M3 could be a problem though. = +0
M2: 9″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. Partner Atk +8% required. Single Piperunner strat doesn’t require Partner Atk. = +0
M3: ??? SCOP Mistwalker for lotsa suicides. = −???
M4: 6″ 2 Rockets 1 Arty. Requires Luck skill or Partner +13%. = +0
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 or Bodyguard and Ind Def +12% required. = +0
M6: 7″ with 1,1,4sq MD moves. Jugger gets 6″ with Cannon Guard. +0
M7: 10″ Bodyguard + Ind Def +12% required. D4 TC to block MD going to Inf. = +0
M8: 8″ same as IL strategy. Requires Woods=1 D1. = −1?
M9: ??? Mistwalker suicide madness. = −???
M10: 10″ Jugger starts this, but maybe Koal too. Cap+2 required, from D2 APC required, D3 Woods=1 unless kill the AA strat. = +0
M11: 9″ Koal COP, drop on Base. Cap+2 required. = +1

Non-Mistwalker alternative: Jugger+Koal: Woods=1, Ind Def +12%, Cannon Guard, APC; Cap+2, Partner ×3 old: APC can help on M10 with an M9 swap (kill AA strat)

M1: 2″ 4 4HP Mechs + end day is fast enough. = +0
M2: 9″? Easy strat with Bomber kills. Partner Atk +8% required. Single Piperunner strat doesn’t require Partner Atk. = +0
M3: 13″ Jugger Woods=1 required. Maybe use COP? = +0
M4: 6″ 2 Rockets 1 Arty. Requires Luck skill or Partner +13%. = +0
M5: 9″ Jugger APC + Woods=1 or Bodyguard and Ind Def +12% required. = +0
M6: 6″ no MDs move. = −1
M7: 10″ Bodyguard + Ind Def +12% required. D4 TC to block MD going to Inf. = +0
M8: 8″ same as IL strategy. Requires Woods=1 D1. = −1?
M9: 11″ strategy I wrote in the previous page. Maybe use COP/SCOP? = +0
M10: 10″ Jugger starts this, but maybe Koal too. Cap+2 required, from D2 APC required, D3 Woods=1 unless kill the AA strat. = +0
M11: 9″ Koal COP, drop on Base. Cap+2 required. = +1

Eagle+Sami is apparently another possibility? Jugger+Grit too; Grit gets M2 6″, M4 5″ and M6 5″ with no powers.

Questions:
TAS M8 with Sami, does she lose 1″? (Due to swap.) Also, is it possible to get Tank suicides to maybe have 7″ IL?
Can we stop losing 1 frame each time we have to re-target for an attack?
Last edited by ALAKTORN on Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:49 am, edited 11 times in total.

STL

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by STL » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:05 am

New strategy for m7. We give Jugger Indirect Defense and Koal/Sami Partner Defense. This way the Stealth can survive a Carrier attack and we dont have to move any of it.

Jugger gets 10" solo, the same as Sami, but it doesn't save a second yet because we would need to drop Cannon Guard, so I hope we can do m6 6" without it.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:06 am

I need to write this down.

M2 no powers Grit strat:
D5 win, 2 Piperunners, 1 Neo moves:
7 2
7 2 2
3
7″ 427?

Alternative:
D5 win, 3 Piperunners: Edit: actually D4 win, and it’s the strat I use now…
8
8 2 2
9
7″ 433?
Last edited by ALAKTORN on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:25 am

^
D4 win 3 Piperunners
7 / 3
7 2
7 2
6″ 415??? KREYGASM gonna TAS it.

Edit: I just TAS’d it in 433, why? ._. Apparently the moves were 3 and 3, not 2 and 2…

I feel like I’ve TAS’d a completely wrong strat…
8 3
8 2
8

^TAS’d 419 with this. :D Edit: had lost a frame, 418 now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74pVpfklX2g

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:27 pm

M6 424 frames without Cannon Guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGO9y6iMFks

Figured out 2 new tricks with this TAS: Tap away, Tap+A can be done for every movement and lets you manipulate the RNG; the “cursor glitch” can be used to tap on the unit you want when ending day so that you can get a perfect touch on it on the next day.
Last edited by ALAKTORN on Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

STL

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by STL » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:31 pm

Okay, we are close to finish the preparations. Current skills are:

Jugger/Koal: Woods, APC, Cannon, Ind Def / Partner * 3, Cap + 2

Jugger/Sami: Luck, Woods, Cannon / Partner Att * 3, Woods
+ APC for 1 CO and a free skill for the other


m1: 2
Incredible hard, would be far easier with Koal + Luck, but to equip it Luck would need to save a second on a map

m2: 9
Partner Att + 8 needed in Bomber strat

m3: 13
Woods needed. We should aim to find a strat for 12.

m4: 6
2 55% OHKOs, Jugger max luck twice... Again much easier with Jugger + Koal + Luck

m5: 9
Woods or APC needed. Ind Def + ~20 close to saving a second, but doesn't.

m6: 6
Cannon Guard

m7: 10
with Sami: APC for either, Sami SCOP
with Koal: played by Jugger, APC for him and Ind Def + 18 to survive Carrier attacks

m8: 7 or 8 (Koal), 8 or 9 (Sami)
This is the map that could decide the partner.
Koal could be 2 seconds faster if he gets 7 with the suicide, Sami can't get and her swap drop her to 9.
Sami could be as fast as Koal, if they can follow the same strat and her swap is free.
Woods needed for Sami or Jugger in Jugger/Koal.

m9: ??
Yeah. 11 maybe?

m10: 10
APC + Woods for either, Cap + 2 for Koal

m11: 8 (Sami), 9 (Koal)
Koal needs Cap + 2.
Last edited by STL on Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:04 pm

I find your lack of belief in Asuka’s S-Break powers appalling, Julian.

STL

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by STL » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:16 am

Okay m3 can be gotten in 13 seconds without Defense. The new perfect touch trick pushed it already over but the map can also be won one day earlier if we let the Neo suicide in the Tank (only possible because of Jugger's bad luck).

So we are at 13"20' now with an optional 11f save from Defense.
Last edited by STL on Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:54 am

M8 calcs:
502 8″ no suicides, − 13 1 suicide, − 20 2nd suicide = 469 7″
swap 542 9″ + 2f
5 5 4 4 0 0 4 4
4 4 2 2 5 5 but then I get silo’d
5 5 2 4 1sqjoin Recon must move N 3sqkill 4 4 then D4 I have no idea 2W OHKO Inf I guess then 0sqa to kill a Tank? don’t know… Javier D3 COP
5 5 4 / 3S1E Tank kills 4 4 kill Infs / 0sqa Tank 5 5 kills / 0sqa 0sqa kill Tanks = TAS’d to 516 with 3 frames lost, didn’t use Bodyguard, no suicides; looks like using 3 units is out of the question

Edit: honestly I think 3 units are useless, my 3 MDs strat only saves 4 frames in theory but it loses 2 to adj and targeting D2, not to mention it’s not compatible with Julian’s strat and winning 1 day earlier means that on D3 my S MDs move +1sq each making me lose 8 frames, meaning 6 lost in comparison… I guess 2 MDs are better.

Julian’s strat is the normal one but AI Tanks attack him D3 from 1S each MD then they join, 476 math’d without suicide, 421 with suicide D4. Requires +5% Atk to OHKO Silo Infs with 9HP MDs, though. You can also get the Tanks to attacks the same MD, in theory…

Oh, pressing Start to scroll only loses 1 frame (B+buttons 2 and stylus 3).

M1 calcs:
3 3 4 4 4 kill: 179f. Requires Bruiser with Sami and Luck with Koal.
4 4 4 4 suicide: 170f. This is crazy as hell.
3 4 4 4 join to 6 HP Road vs. Plains suicide: 177f. Neo needs 18HP or so. Should be an easier suicide than the one before. Road vs. Road also possible but Plains should make it easier to happen.
Btw IL strat gives 134f (with first frame attack to avoid cursor moving on top of target).
Last edited by ALAKTORN on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

STL

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by STL » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:00 am

ALAKTORN wrote:M9 strat:

Jugger/Sami: Woods=1, Luck, Hachi, APC; Woods=1, Partner ×3
alternative:

D1 Mech 1S1W
D2 nothing
AI D2 suicide last 3 Tanks on Mega
D3 Rockets OHKO N Arty, S APC 2E, Neo 1W OHKO AA, N APC 2S, Mega 1W Wait
AI D3 attack nothing, N Mech moves to the S
D4 Mega OHKO Tank, Neo OHKO MD, Mech OHKO Recon, Rockets OHKO AA
AI D4 SCOP attacks nothing
D5 Mech OHKO Recon, Mega OHKO MD, Rockets OHKO Recon, Neo OHKO Arty
AI D5 MDs attack Neo
D6 Mega 1E Wait, Neo OHKO MD, Rockets OHKO remaining MD, Mech OHKO Recon Edit: wouldn’t it make more sense to OHKO with Mega instead of using Neo…?
AI D6 suicide 4 Mechs (or let Tank suicide and kill one Mech) alternative: let 1 MD suicide after the 4 Mechs
edit: even without MD or 4 Mech suicides, this gives 11″ (708 frames with 4 Mechs suicide)
The strat looks good for the Basic run. We can improve it by distributing the luck more evenly.

AI Day 3: Tanks do 0.7 - 1.4 HP damage. (Attack is 1 to 5) We can keep 7.9 max, we must keep at least 7.2 otherwise MD refuse is impossible, keeping 7.5+ is better
AI Day 4: We can afford MD attacking Neo aslong as the other 2 MD do not attack the Mega
D5: Rockets OHKOs Art and Neo OHKOs injured MD instead, Mega moves 1E and destroys full HP MD
AI Day 5: Last MD must move east of Neo (so it's next to Mega) and attack it, 1 Mech can already suicide in the Mega here
D6: Rockets and Mech destroy the last 2 Recons and Mega the MD. (Maybe use room here and move Neo 2N out of Mechs range)

STL

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by STL » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:44 am

m7 Individual Level new Record: 9" with Sensei
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkeWDYrZnJQ

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:47 pm

Code: Select all

  Map    TAS    Human(+)
   1      1       3
   2      6       2
   3     13       3
   4      5       3
   5      8       2
   6      5       3
   7      9       3
   8      8       4
   9     11       6
  10     10       2
  11      8       1
TAS Total Time: 1:24
Human Total: 1:56

:D


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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:49 am

New trick discovered when loading units with adjacent move: Tap+A select, any of the DPad 8 directions that isn’t adjacent (diagonals may advance RNG), Tap+A to move, …, Tap to Load, nothing, perfect touch on loading unit. To make this perfect touch work you need to Tap+A when moving, but you need to be tapping and not dragging the stylus, so the DPad allows you to do an adjacent movement without having to tap away before Tap+A.

Finalized?

Jugger+Sami Woods=1, Cannon Guard, Luck, Indirect Attack +8 / Partner Attack ×2, Woods=1, APC Boost

M1: 2″ 3 4HP attacks + 1 3HP attack, join and suicide. Requires Luck for Jugger.
M2: 9″ easy Bomber strat, requires Partner Atk +8%. Piperunner strat requires it too.
M3: 13″ Jugger Woods=1 required. Bodyguard saves 11 frames but it’s not enough to save a second (13″9f).
M4: 6″ 2 Rockets + Arty. Indirect Attack +8% helps.
M5: 9″ Woods=1 required to avoid BS day 3. Losing a day doesn’t cost a second.
M6: 6″ much room thanks to Cannon Guard (6″16f). Indirect Attack +8% helps.
M7: 10″ swap and Sami SCOP.
M8: 8″ Julian has a strat to get 8″ with swap. Requires Woods=1 first 2 turns I believe.
M9: 11″ even without Bodyguard my strategy works with some tweaks. Indirect Attack +8% helps.
M10: 10″ requires APC Boost and Woods=1 for Sami. 10″55f with swap. Only APC Boost required in kill AA strat.
M11: 8″ Sami SCOP.

1′32″ total.

Possible improvements: M3 strat is meh; M8 can probably be done a second faster by Koal; M9 strat is meh; M10 could be done a sec faster without Supply (and swap); look into Mistwalker.

Edit:

Sami+Eagle Luck, Cannon Guard, Indirect Attack +8%, Woods=1 / Partner Attack ×2, Woods=1, APC Boost

M1 2″ her Mechs are strong enough
M2 9″ Piperunner strat
M3 13″ shouldn’t be much different
M4 6″ 66% OHKOs, full luck
M5 8″ one second saved with SCOP
M6 6″ shouldn’t be much different
M7 10″ SCOP strat
M8 8″? is this possible without Dir Atk +8%? Otherwise would need to drop Cannon Guard and she’d be the same as Jugger+Sami
M9 11″? needs swap to Eagle
M10 10″ start with Eagle, same as Jugger+Sami strat
M11 8″ SCOP strat

Edit2:

Grit+Max(/Jugger/Sami?) Luck, Woods=1, ??? / Partner Atk ×2, Cap+3

M1 3″ has less Luck so can’t do 2″ I think +1
M2 6″ no powers strategy, requires precisely 30 Luck −3
M3 13″ requires Woods=1? +0
M4 5″ 2 Rockets strategy, there is a 55% OHKO (BS), so Luck and Partner Atk ×2 or Road Atk required −1
M5 9″ requires either Woods=1 or APC +0
M6 5″ 359 frames, CRAZY EPIC YO :D −1
M7 ?? no idea
M8 9″ maybe 9″? using Max or something +1?
M9 11? I wonder if they can get 11″… +0?
M10 10″? I guess we’d need APC on Grit then swap to cap +0?
M11 12″ TAG is 12″54f and that’s starting with Grit… +4/5

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:43 am

M6 Grit no Cannon Guard, no powers 5″ TAS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J3ilVoUL-0

Now every IL record is possible without powers.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:08 am

Not completely sure about this, but maybe I found a new trick.

Edit: better(?) explanation below.
If you wanna do a diagonal movement without advancing the RNG, you can do it at the cost of 1 frame. Here how for a Mech: say you wanna move 1N1W. That’s gonna call the RNG to draw the path, unless one of the 2 possible paths is obstructed for some reason. In order to avoid drawing the path, you can do this: Tap+A Mech, Tap 1W/N to draw the first square, Tap away in the direction you wanna draw next (in this example, ≥3N/W would work), then Tap+A 1W1N. Edit: you just have to tap away wherever, doesn’t matter as long as you don’t draw an additional path or are adjacent to the goal square.

Also the RNG calculates 1 square at a time when drawing a path, which is what makes the number of advances differ for long movements (apparently). This is actually really relevant to the trick because for example on TiS M11, drawing 1W and then wasting a frame to try to not advance the RNG to make 4N doesn’t work, while doing 3N and then 1W3N works and doesn’t even cost a frame.

New take: the pathfinding starts from the cursor’s position, so if you try with an Inf to draw 3N and then go 1N1E/W or whatever, it won’t work; you actually have to draw the 1N so that the cursor is in the correct position to just move 1E/W, so it doesn’t call the RNG. “Limitations” are: unit’s max movement (restarts from unit’s position if exceeded), pathfinding starts from last drawn position, prioritizes least move cost, RNG draws 1 square at a time, it can backtrack if you tap on a previously drawn position.

Ok this is nonsense. http://i.imgur.com/kPiYijW.jpg Only 1N 2W 1N and 1W 1N 1W 1N are 3 advances, all else 2. My take: RNG doesn’t draw 1 square at a time, but rather each RN gives a specific path, then depending on how big the movement is the RN value gets modulo or something to be cut down and give a smaller one when necessary.

Pathfinder:
1. Check the 2 squares: from where and to where.
2. Calculate the least costly path.
3. If there are ties, call RNG.
4. If unit’s movement is exceeded, recalculate from unit’s position; except if a previously drawn frame was touched, in that case backtrack.

Edit: MY GOD THIS IS ALL WRONG. Neo Tank 4S drawn, tap 1N 1W… EVERY possibility can happen… from 4S 1W 1N and 3S 1W to 1W 3S or whatever else.

Edit2: STL said that maybe the path is drawn from the goal to the start (so in reverse kinda) rather than the opposite. Seems true.

Edit3: I think the RN decides if the path goes vertical or horizontal. 978710251 is vertical, 802067450 horizontal. Formula: advance 1 step then mod 32768, if 15th bit (right to left) is 0 it’s horizontal if 1 vertical (in decimal: if ≥ 16384 vertical, else horizontal).
Last edited by ALAKTORN on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:52 am, edited 9 times in total.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:49 am

It’s not relevant to TiS but I found a new glitch so I thought might as well post it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf926NWQ4hw

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:26 am

So, lag removal tricks. They’re relevant now that we’re doing a proper Basic TAS.

#1: use End day cursor manipulation to load terrain info, then select the unit with Tap alone. Doesn’t cost any frame (unless you could perfect touch, loses 1 then). With normal maps you can directly select the unit (as if doing perfect touch) without causing lag, it’s the same thing though so it’s pointless. Can’t path draw. You could use the latter example to select with A and retain ability to path draw, but since that selects the unit 1 frame faster than stylus, you actually glitch into the last moved AI unit for a frame and lag the game, ending up costing 1 frame.
#2: Tap away to load terrain (not adj), tap on unit, A to select it. Loses 1 frame but saves 1 frame overall if you need to wait for the RNG. Retains ability to path draw for manipulation.
But generally speaking, the more new information it has to load, the more it lags.

J ROM could have different lag tricks. M2 lags more than normal maps, probably due to weather effects (snow).

Edit:

#3: 0sqa can be done with Tap, nothing, A, nothing, Tap, etc. to remove 1 of lag (+1 game timer) without losing a frame.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:30 am

M3 new strat info dump. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZcAJF97_wM

Not actually necessary to move Tank 1E. Tank should move on City to get Supply instead (23f, MD is 19f), Neo shouldn’t attack MD (it suicides later with 1HP). Final moves are MD 1N 1W of City OHKOing Arty, Tank OHKOing AA from Plains where 5HP Tank can suicide from Woods. MD needs to be 9HP (Mega 1HP double attacks? Mega runs) for MD to suicide Woods vs. Woods.

SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 1066.35
81 to 84 HP
SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 524.54
85HP
SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 355.84
86
SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 285.28
87
more is impossible

I’m confused.

so this strategy doesn’t even work ._.
[21:11:41] ALAKTORN: they both don’t
[21:11:48] ALAKTORN: 777 can’t get the MD suicide
[21:11:57] ALAKTORN: 779 can’t get the AA OHKO and Tank suicide… Edit: no MD suicide, either
[21:12:22] ALAKTORN: it could if AA moved N like in the no Woods=1 strategy, but without Woods=1 then it wouldn’t reach AA…
If Arty joined 1E instead of 1W I could get a Woods vs. City suicide and make 777 possible…
779 can have RNG for AA and give a possible 788 Tank 6sqa D7 Edit: actually I have no idea why I ever thought that the MD suicide was possible in this strat… it isn’t, Neo hits for 8% and 92 are too many HP for suicide
maybe use BB as bait for AA?
doing fewer moves for BB also possible… D5 3W W BB or N BB 1N 2W… either 1 Arty or 1 AA out of range and saving 1sq so far…
2 BB can be used as bait to get 1 BB hitting everything (D4 3W and 6W then D5 6sq I think)
108 Atk gets the MD suicide with 92/3 HP (1HP Neo hits for 7%–8%) SUICIDE RATE: 1 to 9574.47 93 HP

STL is working on a 1 BB only strat. M11 can be routed with Jugger TAG and 4 suicides, it should give 10″ maybe 9″.

1 BB strat should still be looked into (saves 108f + movement), lots of things can suicide and can refuse on this map… 5HP Mechs suicide on MD from City instead of capping, 5HP Neo refuses on Plains Tank…

STL found a D4 BB, D5 BB strat that should give 12″. It requires 115 attack, though… and we only have 113. We’ll need to drop Road Rage for Brawler… Strat is: D4 N BB 4W or something, D5 W BB 2W 1N (don’t hit Inf), MD on City OHKO Neo, Tank OHKO Mech AI: Mech and Mega suicide on MD, 0 damage, MD doesn’t attack Tank, Arty moves 1N 2W of Tank and AA 1S 1W of it (this saves 4f/1sq for MD AA OHKO on D7); Tank OHKOs MD (114 Atk required), MD OHKOs Art from N, AI: Inf suicides on Tank, then Tank suicides on Tank too (not sure if possible); MD moves 2sq and OHKOs AA, gg

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:04 am

Supply mechanics for City/Base: supplied ammo + supplied fuel × 10 = starting value; starting value gets subtracted a number (formula below) each frame; repair is the cost of HP and overrides ammo/fuel; calc starts counting down 4 frames before input (3 before perfect touch), ends 7 frames before you can input after it (6 with perfect touch); 100G takes 6 frames, 200G 12 and so on, maxes at 50; 19 is the smallest possible wait, APC Supply is different; money skills affect timer

frame timer / minus value
1400 (cost of 2HP) − 50
990 (99 Inf fuel) − 61
960 − 60
700 (cost of 1HP) − 43
600 − 37
500 − 31
400 − 25
300 − 18
200 − 12
110 − 6
100 − 6
92 − 5 – 1HP Inf with Fire Sale
90 − 5
80 − 5
70 − 4
60 − 3
50 − 3
40 − 2
30 − 1 this wins the records of slowest possible supply, clocking in at 33 frames of wait
20 − 1
10 − 1 this one is special in that it starts counting down only at +2 from input (+1 with perfect touch) instead of 4 before (3 with perfect touch), but still ends normally 7 before (6 with perfect touch)

STL code:
if(g > 0)
supply = G
else
supply = (ammo + fuel) * 10

Minus number formula: timer value ÷ 16 rounded down = minus number, if 0 put 1, if G it’s capped at 50.

Rachel repairing 6HP, or Kanbei repairing 5HP of Carrier is the slowest possible Supply in the game, taking 360 frames (6 seconds exactly). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fFtMcxry6E

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:29 am

Me and STL worked hard on M3 and we shaved off 2 seconds from the previous record with a Basic Course strat that requires 118 Atk. I was still working on trying to get it with 113 Atk + Road Rage (currently 720f… yeah…) but I’ve gotten pretty sick of the map. We’ll see what the future holds. 10″ looks impossible from a Basic Course perspective.

Code: Select all

  Map    TAS    Human(+)
   1      1       3
   2      6       2
   3     11       5
   4      5       3
   5      8       2
   6      5       3
   7      9       3
   8      8       4
   9     11       6
  10     10       2
  11      8       1
TAS Total Time: 1:22
Human Total: 1:56

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:29 pm

I encoded the TAS WiP for Time Survival Basic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1of7jTHIE

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:30 pm

So this is old news, but we never made vids of it so I made them now; Sami/Sensei Open Road in 8 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxDy5hlP3mA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj3y9ybgUSg

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Xenesis
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Xenesis » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:08 pm

That is some hardcore™ strategy right there.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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