Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

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GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:57 am

So I'm trying to time attack time survival so that I can put up a single-segment video on YouTube.

After a few practice runs, I achieved a final single-segment time (no save/reload/luck manipulation) of 7:06 with Kanbei/Sonja and the following skills. Sub-seven minutes is definitely possible.
Kanbei - +8 direct ATK, +20 direct DEF, woods movement = 1 MP
Sonja - +13 tag CO ATK, +10 tag CO DEF, property income +100

Woods movement = 1 MP is important for Tactical Decoy and Pursuit Plains.

Map images at http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v205/ ... ival/Time/
Red Heart: No real strategy. Attack with 3hp mechs, then 4hp mechs.
Frozen Pipes: Bomber gets all the kills.
Cape Splinter: I can clear this on day 7 by forcing the AI to join twice.
Lake Fever: Build 4 artillery and stagger them to cover all sea and beach tiles.
Open Road: No real strategy. Run the APC to the HQ and capture.
The Middleman: This map requires the most tactical thought. 2 md tanks destroy a cannon, third md tank destroys mech, fourth md tank damages cannon, position artillery. Rout on day 3. Switch to Sonja at the last day.
Stealth Fight: Tag power, bring t-copter to HQ and capture
Tactical Decoy: Move 4 tanks south, bait silos with other units.
Last Stand: No real strategy. I can't seem to get under 1 minute for this. Switch to Sonja at the last day.
Pursuit Plains: Tag power, APC day 1, destroy enough units to clear a path, day 4 HQ capture
Fog Hunter: 2 mechs to black boat, build infantry. Day 2 black boat on west beach unload E, day 3 fire silo; black boat goes to east beach unload N. Day 5 HQ capture

Now, someone has claimed to have beaten this in only 3:58, and he has "proof." I call complete BS and think he faked his screenshots with an AR, but since you guys are so good at this, I wanted your opinion.

http://bdam.nl/proof/awds/surv/

3:58 means he's averaging under 22 seconds per map. Yeah, right. His Last Stand time of 0:34 is ridiculous because you need to rout 20 units with only four of your own.

Anyway, I'm using some tricks to lower time:
- The stylus is faster. Using the L button isn't good because on many maps, you don't want to move all units.
- Being left-handed helps. My right index finger can press select immediately to go to the menu. This is faster than pressing an empty space.
- The eyecatch at the beginning of a day uses up time. Tapping out of it immediately saves a few seconds.

So... anyone want to time attack time survival with me? Let's pool our strategies for an amazing legit time! =D

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x0_000
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by x0_000 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:16 am

I had ~4:38 last time I checked. His scores aren't very ridiculous, at least if you include saving/reloading (which is probably what he's doing.) Also note that enemy turns don't use up time.

Last Stand is very easy to get under 1 minute if you know what you're doing. The two key things to remember are:

Reduce damage, or at least keep it concentrated on a single unit (repairs eat up buttloads of time)
Invite the enemy to kill themselves on your units

The reason you probably are getting over one minute is the second, because IIRC the AI won't attack Kanbei's Megatanks due to his high defense. I used Grimm and the AI always suicides most of their units against my Megatank. I'm not sure if Eagle would work as well, I remember maining the Eagle/Sami tag at one point but I can't remember whether that was the best I did.

For Pursuit Plains I believe you can do a bit better if you use the Tag Power to go for a direct HQ capture. All the enemy units except infantry will retreat so if you initiate it with Sonja then your HQ capture should go very smoothly with Kanbei's DEF bonus. It also helps that if you use the APC properly the enemy can only attack your infantry once.

Translucent Air also did a Kanbei/Sonja run, and note that these scores were obtained without skills.
Red Heart 0:17
Frozen Pipes 0:18
Cape Splinter 0:41
Lake Fever 0:32
Open Road 0:19
The Middleman 0:28
Stealth Fight 0:46
Tactical Decoy 0:46
Last Stand 0:55
Pursuit Plains 0:52
Fog Hunter 0:19
It would help if you posted the individual times so that we know which maps can be improved.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:43 am

The only times I have which are significantly worse than those listed are Middleman and Fog Hunter. Translucent Air obviously went for the tag on Fog Hunter, while keeping almost the same time on Pursuit Plains.

What is the defense threshold, anyway? I've been trying the Grimm counterattack strategy but it's not working out too well.

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x0_000
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by x0_000 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:53 am

Hmm. I've pulled up a guide I wrote (but never published) about Time survival and you shouldn't have to use any defense boosts, I seem to have done it fine without. Turns out my best time is an Eagle/Sami tag clocking in at 4:33, which means you can probably apply my strategy regarding Last Stand with Eagle. Apparently, I recommended Sami as a tag partner. My skills were
Chosen CO: Plains Free, Luck, APC +1 Movement and ???
Sami: Forest Free, Plains Free, Tag Attack, Tag Attack 2
Plains free basically allows you to use recons on certain maps (Pursuit Plains comes to mind)

This is what I noted down for Last Stand
Basically make a 2x2 box with your Rocket, Mech, Neotank and Megatank on your properties and hide the APCs away. Destroy the units as they come.
the APCs should be placed so that when the AI attacks, your rocket can dispose of them.

For The Middleman, what I did was basically
Move the Mid Tanks 1S or 1N (Depending on where they can move) and move the artillery in their place. Use the artillery to attack the Neotanks and the mechs.

If your CO can OHKO the mechs, attack the southern central minicannon on the next turn (Unless you're Grit, you won't need to attack the minicannon.) Otherwise, destroy the mechs then destroy the southern minicannon. (If for some reason you can't destroy the minicannon with 2 artillery, restart and attack it with an artiller/Mid Tank combo instead.)

In either case, once you DO destroy the minicannon, attack the Neotank immediately with the Mid Tank. If you destroyed the minicannon with an artillery/Mid Tank combo, place the remaining artillery behind the Mid Tank used to destroy the minicannon. Otherwise, place the Mid Tank behind it instead.
The basic idea as usual is to let the Neotanks suicide themselves.

My strategy for Pursuit Plains (which uses Sami) is
Use your infantry to destroy 2 units, then build an APC and a recon in the south. The next day, build another recon and load your infantry into the APC so that you can rush it to the HQ. The recons should be brought along as bait. Unload the infantry and switch to Sami. If for some reason Sami doesn't have a Victory March yet, let your recons get damaged to charge it up. You should be able to capture the HQ with little resistance.
You can probably modify it a bit for Kanbei/Sonja.

It also appears I managed to get 6:36 with a Sami solo :P
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:05 pm

By any chance, did your time involve lots of reloading for luck abuse? I see the luck skill, but I was interested in a single segment run with no saving.

I just streamed Time Survival live in front of Xenesis and the Meebo guys and got 7:05, so now I can report times:

Red Heart: 0:14
Frozen Pipes: 0:22
Cape Splinter: 0:43
Lake Fever: 0:39
Open Road: 0:22
The Middleman: 0:37
Stealth Fight: 1:01 (this was real bad, I screwed up good)
Tactical Decoy: 0:50
Last Stand: 1:08
Pursuit Plains: 0:31
Fog Hunter: 0:38

Everyone who saw the stream admitted I messed up a few places, but it was blazing quick in most areas. They don't believe that 3:58 is humanly possible even with perfect play.

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x0_000
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by x0_000 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:12 pm

You should be able to do better on Red Hearts, Frozen Pipes and Open Road. None of those (other than Red Hearts, but it's the first map) rely on luck. You're probably losing a bit of time because you don't have the +1 transport skill.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:59 pm

GREAT TEACHER x0_000 tutored me to 6:11 multi-segment with Kanbei/Sonja. This is better than Translucent Air's run, so I'm happy. Unfortunately, Kanbei is so strong that he can't bait units with his megatank. =(

fcastro

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by fcastro » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:01 pm

Swifty managed to improve Sterlingfalco's score (3:58) with Grimm and Koal: he was around 3:10.
Before he stopped playing, he teached me his strats and I was able to reach around 3:50 while I'm very slow.
He promised to come back one day to reveal how to minimize time survival, but maybe I will have to teach it by myself...
So just wait a little longer!

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:33 am

For Pursuit Plains, tag powers aren't needed at all. You can build an APC on day 1 and go directly for the HQ. You only need to destroy the missiles and recon that's in the way.

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:37 am

Actually, my last recorded "Basic Course" time seemed to have been 6:11. I apparently shaved two seconds off of 'Last Stand.'

There's also the fact that, besides not using skills, I constrained myself to 150-point scores, so you should definitely be able to do better.

I also checked my other cart, and I've apparently made 6:03:
Red Heart 0:17
Frozen Pipes 0:17
Cape Splinter 0:40
Lake Fever 0:32
Open Road 0:19
The Middleman 0:27
Stealth Fight 0:43
Tactical Decoy 0:40
Last Stand 0:48
Pursuit Plains 0:44
Fog Hunter 0:19

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:48 am

I have a really retarded idea which might be the basis of the 3:58 time...

If you give Grimm the Mistwalker skill, will enemies still attack his units during SCOP? I will test it out later today.

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samurai goroh
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by samurai goroh » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:50 am

I wish this thread was made a year ago, when I played this game a lot... I'll try to see if I can reproduce my strategies & post them here :)
I have a really retarded idea which might be the basis of the 3:58 time...

If you give Grimm the Mistwalker skill, will enemies still attack his units during SCOP?
I think I'd tried doing that w/o success, but maybe with luck manipulation it is possible.
Also, I was like WTF when I opened the link to my photobucket account. I though it opened a wrong link before reading that it pointed to the maps XD

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:05 am

I had no luck with Grimm/Koal so I went back to the drawing board with Kanbei/Sonja. With some new tactics and some borrowed from x0_000, I managed to get a multi-segment time of 4:54!

Kanbei: Direct ATK +13, woods movement =1MP, transport MP +1
Sonja: Tag CO ATK +13, tag CO DEF +10, star power

Image

Red Heart: 0:10
Frozen Pipes: 0:20
Cape Splinter: 0:34
Lake Fever: 0:28
Open Road: 0:19
The Middleman: 0:27
Stealth Fight: 0:33 (tag power used)
Tactical Decoy: 0:34
Last Stand: 0:48
Pursuit Plains: 0:19
Fog Hunter: 0:22 (tag power used)

Big improvements came from the execution of Stealth Fight, Last Stand, and Pursuit Plains.
Stealth Fight: Only the SE stealth needs to be moved. The two north stealths hide, while the SW stealth stays revealed in order to bait carrier fire. Then tag and win. Only the md tank needs to be destroyed.
Last Stand: Ending the day without moving units and letting Colin's units come to you seems to be faster.
Pursuit Plains: With Kanbei's APC movement bonus, you can beat this level without attacking a single unit. Day 1 APC, then load up an infantry and go right to the HQ.

Now I just have to pull it off in a single-segment run...

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:25 am

Great job; however, as x0_000 said, I think Frozen Pipes should definitely be faster. If you're placing the APC next to the bomber, you're losing time due to the supplying (you should be mindful of placing units on cities as well as I wrote more than two years ago). I think you should be able to regularly get 18 seconds for that mission.

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x0_000
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by x0_000 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:42 am

I've seen his performance, the only thing I suggest is to attack the NW artillery first so that none of the artilleries move after. The one he attacks tends to make two of the artilleries run away.
Only in math can you buy 600 cantaloupes and not look like a nutter.

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:32 pm

x0_000 wrote:I've seen his performance, the only thing I suggest is to attack the NW artillery first so that none of the artilleries move after. The one he attacks tends to make two of the artilleries run away.
Ah, yes, that'd do it, but isn't that giving too much away? :wink:
Yes, by attacking the northwest artillery, you prevent the AI from believing it can escape, so it leaves the artillery units in place.

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:44 pm

Did a single-segment run with the above strategy and got 5:13 with a total runtime of 15:43. Enemy dialogue was skipped. Unlike a multi-segment run, it's difficult to keep up the frantic pace with no pauses in between. I don't know if a total runtime under 11:00 (so that it fits on YouTube) is possible. >_<

Tactical Decoy and Last Stand eat up the most time. Stupid silos and units.

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:16 pm

Image

I hold the new record! Or not. To see if 3:58 was theoretically possible, I ran through Time Survival with my strategy using a device that allowed me to play at 25% speed. It is technically a tool-assist, but it is not an absolute perfect tool-assist because there was still room for frame delays. Things to note:

- The game at certain frames will not allow you to skip. You will almost certainly see a bit of the allied nations emblem on some days. I do not know if this "bug" is in the Japanese version.
- I beat the Last Stand record. In order to do so, I had to keep the megatank and the neotank out of the city and HQ. The megatank used up all three ammo, then I moved up an APC next to it.

Did I beat the 3:58 guy at his own game? Who knows? What follows are the near-perfect times per level with my current strategy at 25% speed. They assume expected luck within the parameters of a 3-star tag affinity, because I never abused luck during the entire run to make things more fair.

Red Heart: 0:08
Frozen Pipes: 0:15
Cape Splinter: 0:28
Lake Fever: 0:19
Open Road: 0:16
The Middleman: 0:20
Stealth Fight: 0:27 (tag power used)
Tactical Decoy: 0:24
Last Stand: 0:32
Pursuit Plains: 0:15
Fog Hunter: 0:18 (tag power used)

I fail to see how swifty's 3:10 is even possible. If I couldn't do it with tool-assist, that means the only way it's possible is if the AI suicided everything into his units.

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Sven

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Sven » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:32 pm

play better

fcastro

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by fcastro » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:32 pm

What do you mean by tool assist? does it mean you're cheating?
Anyway congratulations for your amazing Kanbei Sonja record. But Koal is definitely better, because of his move bonus and so Grimm will be needed as partner. Swifty's 3:16 score was: 7-15-25-12-14-19-25-16-29-20-14, and he hoped to improve it before stopping.
I see that you did much better for Pursuit Plains, that's very great! So maybe you could do less than 3 minuts...

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:20 am

I slowed down the game to a point where human error was minimized. All gameplay was kept normal. So yes, it's cheating, but I didn't do anything blatant like give my units 300% attack.

The second CO doesn't matter at all aside from tag affinity because tag powers end the game in two days after the tag is applied. Therefore, it's only a matter of whether Grimm is better than Kanbei.

Open Road in 0:14? Seriously? I'll shut up if you can provide me with a video that shows a Open Road 0:14 win in real-time without the use of powers. (You can get to the HQ in two days with Koal's SCOP and the transport +1 MP bonus) The 16 second tool-assist involved letting the APC be destroyed so that it wouldn't supply the infantry after unload. Unlike Red Heart, that map requires absolutely no luck whatsoever, so you should be able to replicate it, because like you said, he taught you.

Actually, is that time the total time from all his individual record times, or is that time his basic course record? Distinguishing between the two is very important, because one could simply run through eachl level with SCOP/tags for individual records. The basic course record is almost certainly slower than all individual record times.

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Sven

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Sven » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:20 am

i'd be more worried about the maps where he beats you by almost five seconds lol

fcastro

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by fcastro » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:51 pm

Gipface, are you serious? Swifty really finished time survival by 3:16, and contrary to you he never used any cheat. He just used his brains and found better strats than yours. Maybe, Koal's abilities can be helpful :wink: however you certainly won't need it to improve Open Road by yourself!

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:48 am

He just used his brains and found better strats than yours.
You haven't been reading the entire thread. On some of the maps, there is no strategy. It's simply execution of all commands. I matched Open Road 0:14 and Cape Splinter 0:25 at 75% slowdown last night in the Meebo room. I find it highly improbable that someone would be able to execute commands that quickly, especially given the DS' frame delay on certain animations. I made sure to employ a combination of stylus and button actions in order to obtain the least delay, which, by the way, is impossible for a right-handed person because the buttons are on the right side of the DS.

The 5+ second differentials I'll chalk up to different strategies. However, 75% slowdown on most of the maps gives me the opportunity to come as close to perfect play as possible.

I'm simply requesting a video of Open Road beaten in 0:14 or any other map in real-time on an actual DS. Is that too hard to ask? This isn't War Room where you need to luck/AI/save abuse in order to achieve your records. As Sven put it, there is usually "honor" when it comes to reporting scores. However, I believe that "honor" doesn't apply when it comes to time attacking. In fact, if he indeed taught you, you should be able to do it yourself so that I may eat some crow. I'm a skeptic by nature.

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:12 am

Gipface, I just got 0:16 (with a Technique Score of 42) on Open Road with Sensei, no skills (i.e. APC movement + 1). Assuming you haven't hit 0:16 in real-time, I believe you can probably do better than you are doing now.

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samurai goroh
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by samurai goroh » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:05 am

Not sure if this helps GipFace, but Starkiller has a video of his 12 seconds record in Open Road... (Uses a tag to capture ASAP...)

GipFace
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:53 am

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted. However, I already knew that Open Road was possible in <14s with powers. Using the tag on Open Road means that Stealth Fight becomes much longer (you waste time destroying the carrier).

fcastro still hasn't answered my question. Is Swifty's 3:18 a cumulative time of all records, or is it his time on a single playthrough? Yeah, I could use powers on the last eight maps in order to achieve a cumulative time record. But that's not possible on a normal playthrough.

Anyway, here's my Cape Splinter strategy, which can be done in 0:25 with perfect play. Woods movement =1MP and at least 130% direct attack is required. Please improve it if you can.
Day 1: End turn.
Day 2: End turn.
Day 3: End turn.
Day 4: End turn.
Day 5: S black bomb explodes at S mountain, W black bomb explodes in the same spot, N black bomb explodes above N artillery. Md tank 4W destroy md tank, tank 3W 1N destroy md tank.
Enemy day 5: The two mechs and the megatank should suicide. Tank, artillery, and antiair units should all join. Neotank and infantry will retreat.
Day 6: Md tank 2N 2W destroy tank, Tank 1N 3W 2N destroy artillery.
Day 7: Md tank 2N 3W, tank 1N 5W destroy neotank.
Day 8: Md tank 4W destroy infantry, tank 2W destroy antiair.

fcastro

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by fcastro » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:35 pm

One more time, Swifty really cleared Time Survival by 3:16. You are very boring: just because he plays better than you cheat, you accuse him of lying. But he just plays better: very fast and of course with better strats. So instead of asking proofs, just start questioning your own game: what are your day-to-day strats? And how could you improve them?
I will try your Cape Splinter strat to tell you the difference with Swifty's for a normal play. However I don't think I can reveal Swifty's strats because you were rude with him. If you're not just a cheater but also a competitor, you'll find them by yourself... :wink:

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:12 am

You still haven't gotten the point. This is not about who has the better tactics. I've already proven that it's near-impossible to achieve his times on the maps that have already been solved even with 75% slowdown over stream via Meebo. Do you want me to upload a video where I play it at 75% slowdown only to achieve a worse time?

At the moment, you're all talk and are no better than a troll, because all you have done was waltz into this thread saying "I will show you" then lie. At least x0_000 provided some advice right off the bat. So yeah, I couldn't care less about you and Swifty. Until I see proof, you're no better than a bible-thumping preacher. Hey, I can make up numbers, too!

lolololol at being "offended" over an internet message board. Grow up.

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Xenesis
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Xenesis » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:43 am

...are you so sure they're solved?
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:58 am

This was just recently done - 0:15 for Open Road (again, vanilla Sensei with no powers):

Image

Gipface, I might recommend you figure out the strategy for that if you haven't hit it already. Technique was 49 points, for the record.

Starkiller 7

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Starkiller 7 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:27 am

Actually, I'm fairly sure SwifTy's times ARE possible. I've been able to tie a bunch of them (and sometimes even beat them, although this happened only 2 or 3 times).
Here are some of the times we have in common :
Red Heart - 4s
Lake Fever - 9s
Open Road - 11s
Stealth Fight - 14s
Pursuit Plains - 13s
Fog Hunter - 10s.

Hoping this will help you to understand that SwifTy's no cheater, and to grow up as well. :wink:

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:00 am

StarKiller, GipFace isn't asking for individual map record times. He's asking for the best times for each map in a single Basic Course run.

What GipFace is questioning is the scores that fcastro has attributed to swifty - 0:07, 0:15, 0:25, 0:12, 0:14, 0:19, 0:25, 0:16, 0:29, 0:20, 0:14 - and whether or not is it the former (individual map record times) or the latter (the best times for each map in a single Basic Course run).

GipFace, from how I interpret the posts, fcastro is affirming that those times are indeed the latter. It's your choice to believe them or not, but to declare that you've found the optimal solution and that your solution is impossible to beat is wanton arrogance that is currently earning you the ire of some members.

You've asked for proof, which is fine in its own right, but you've previously demanded them in the wrong form. Not everyone has access to a video recording device or the ability to put it up on the web - what you should have asked for initially was the strategies in print, not videos. With your skill, you should be able to confirm the time of a strategy yourself without having to rely upon a video. Additionally, you're making this a one-sided battle; you're not even allowing anyone to contest whether you are wrong or not as you have not posted your solution for Open Road. You have to give a little to get a little, as you are now doing with Cape Splinter.

Anyway, that's my spiel on the matter, and I'm trying to get you to try different things on Open Road by improving my own scores, although I fear you no longer consider me a worthy opponent.


(P.S. I'd recommend throwing away the tool-assist device and just gunning it in real-time. Using the device introduces the possibility of doing things not humanly possible; plus, you may improve your actual skills faster without it.)

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by GipFace » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:05 am

This was my Open Road solution with no tag and APC MP +1:

Day 1: Load infantry into APC, move it above the south recon.
Day 2: Beginning of turn supply (~1s), move APC as far east as possible.
Enemy day 2: Enemy damages APC.
Day 3: Move APC W of HQ and unload E.
Enemy day 3: Enemy destroys APC, preventing it from supplying.
Day 4+5: Capture HQ.

I suppose with Sensei you can get APC MP +2 and skip the supplying, but then the final drop must have the battleship attack the APC over the infantry. There's not much more you can do with this map, which is why I'm using it as the solved map benchmark.

Anyway, the original goal of all this was to figure out a strategy that would allow me to single-segment a video up on YouTube. However, that's all but impossible, because even if I did shave off an additional two minutes from my normal time, the video length would still be over 11 minutes long (unless there was some way to shorten CPU turns like in Fire Emblem DS). I don't feel like splitting it into two parts either. So yeah, I guess the experiment is over. This was simply a break from the regular DoR wi-fi playing, which gets rather monotonous if you do it too long.

Translucent Air

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by Translucent Air » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:08 am

You are indeed being presumptuous in your assessment. With APC movement + 1 (i.e. a "vanilla Sensei"), you can have a guaranteed capture finish by Day 4. Next time, try thinking outside the box and test positioning some of those recon units as decoys to expedite APC movement and/or infantry placement.

fcastro

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by fcastro » Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:12 pm

So... Let's make Christmas peace!
This is some things about Time Survival, if someone wants to challenge Swifty and look for a Perfect Score.

0) A short story of Time Survival

Long time ago, someone named SterlingFalco discovered how to reach amazing scores in Time Survival, thanks to Grimm and Koal abilities. He obtained the time of 3:58 and became the Great Master of Time Survival.
But some years later, another one named Swifty decided to challenge him. He planned a genial strat and thanks to his incredible velocity, he succeeded. After that he taught me his strats, unfortunately I wasn't fast enough to challenge with him. I could just help him to improve some of his strats for a few seconds, and then tried to plan a Perfect Strat.
Unfortunately, he refused this strat because too much luck was needed (especially for M6 and M7). He prefered his basic strat because it was more cumfortable and played it until achieving this crazy score of 3:16. After that for some unknown reasons he stopped playing but promised to come back one day in order to officially reveal his strats and look for new challengers...

1) What team should you choose?

Grimm for his power and Koal for his move abilities. In fact Jugger could be theoretically better than Grimm but forget it, insanest luck is needed.
Now the skills: For his attack, Grimm will need at least luck and +8 thanks to Koal's partner attack. Grimm also needs pathfinder for M3 and M8, and transport +1. Koal will need soul of hachi for M4, where you'll use a tag.
Now the 3 other skills are harder to choose. Swifty prefered an overpowered (brawler+teamwork) Grimm to minimize luck, and he also used conqueror's Koal, for map 10. However, I didn't think it was really useful.
On the other hand, I prefered giving Koal one cost reduction in order to use tag power one day earlier in Lake Fever. And also instead of overpowering Grimm, I gave transport +1 to Koal and invisible attack (!) to Grimm. This is for Stealth Fight...

2) What scores should you aim at?

Swifty's times are already known:

0:07, 0:15, 0:25, 0:12, 0:14, 0:19, 0:25, 0:16, 0:29, 0:20, 0:14.

But they were only achieved after intensive gaming. So mine can better used as reference to find strats. Please note that I didn't end this run because of a stupid mistake (forgot to switch at map 10) but that this times were all done in the conditions of a basic run. But after that I never found the strength to start again and so stayed with a former 3:56 score...

0:11, 0:18, 0:29, 0:14, 0:16, 0:22, 0:26, 0:18, 0:36, 0:23, 0:16.

You'll note that I really had a problem with Last Stand...

3) Some Tips

Cape Splinter: Sorry, I didn't seriously test Gipface's strat. It only seemed to me that you needed too many movements to kill the last units. Don't forget that it's sometimes better to lose a day if you move less: Swifty finished it by 9 days. He also used his BB in a different way.

Lake Fever: tag+soul of hachi when you'll have enough money.

Stealth Fight: As I already explaint, this is my own strat so I can reveal it without problem.
Day 1: Move T copter with inf 5S 2E (north to a beach). Move 2 west stealths south in order to cover T copter. Make them invisible. Switch to Koal.
Day 2: Tag power, drop inf near to hq. Also move one invisible stealth in order to kill Md Tank!!! That's why I needed invisible attack.
Day 3: Finish capturing.

That's all!

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 am

this thread is so funny, SwifTy beat Gip even if he was cheating XD

to get fast times you could probably use 2 stylus anyway, like experts do for Trauma Center

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:24 am

i'm playing this myself now... and SwifTy's times are really wtf, but i suck so it's normal, i have a question: how do you finish Frozen Pipes in 18 seconds without skills? i got 18 seconds with the following strategy: APC 2N, Bomber 1S destroy pipeline, end turn; Bomber all east destroy the other pipeline, active Rachel's SCOP, end turn; destroy the Art with your Bomber

i know i can get 16 seconds with this, but getting 15 (like SwifTy) without Rachel's SCOP sounds insane to me... help?

edit: my "splits" are: 1st day 3 seconds, 2nd day SCOP 6 seconds (9 total) end turn 7 seconds (those missiles takes time to fall) (16 total), killing Art 2 seconds 18 total, i keep on getting this time over and over, i know i lose a lot of time on day 2 because i'm slow to do those commands with the Stylus (first day is entirely done by buttons)

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samurai goroh
Location: Red Canyon hideout
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Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by samurai goroh » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:43 am

That's the same strat I did to get 16 seconds...

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Time Survival High Scores & Strategy

Post by ALAKTORN » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:55 am

nevermind my post above, i just got 16 seconds with Grimm, you need to be insanely fast... i could see 14 seconds done on a perfect run, probably it could go only 1 second better at real max

i did everything with buttons except day 2 which was: left, A, stylus tap to destroy pipeline, and the day after which was entirely with stylus, days later were entirely buttons

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