Actual Games

Talk about Advance Wars DS. Debate, laugh, cry, argue about everything to do with our favourite tag game here.
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Sven

Re: Actual Games

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 pm

DxDyDzD wrote:Low/Bottom tier questions:
What about Andy, then? This idea was suggested in an old topic. Seeing that Megatanks are part of the metagame now (from your discussions), his SCOP makes his Megatanks hard to kill. The HP boost can even be converted into funds by joining.

Mid tier questions:
Rachel's missiles can blast Megatanks into uselessness given the Megatanks' high costs and the way the missiles target (at least, the missile which targets the highest funds). In the old days her SCOP was valuable for breaking chokepoints. Has the metagame changed such that it's no longer all about infantry and artillery?
Is +Movement less useful now? In the old days, Adder could create mind games (the equivalent of a combat trick in Magic) by saving his COP and leaving his units 1 space out of the enemy's range. Should Jess be slightly higher up because of this?

If Megatanks are all the rage, mass damage COs might be more usable. Speaking of which, Hawke used to be the "average" CO, the middlest of the mid tier. Who fills that role now?
I'm not particularly sure how GipFace feels about this, but I feel that Megatanks are purely a Hachi option, perhaps a Colin one. They simply take too long to reach the front lines to be of any use, and because they're so expensive the time spent saving for them means you're inevitably giving something up. Hachi can deal with this by generating them on cities.

Strategy is very much different from the norms for the COs we're testing. I do not talk of a middle tier because I do not know who would fit into a middle tier.

I'm actually rather reluctant to even speak of anything below a 'broken' tier, simply because I've never actually had to use them. Even among them there's no real hard ranking in my mind because there are plenty of "optimizations" to be discovered.

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Sven

Re: Actual Games

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:13 pm

Hachi 101

1. Introduction
2. Theoretical Potential
3. Practical Potential
3.1 Capturing and First Power
3.2 Second Power and Joining Megatanks
3.3 Third Power and Beyond
4. Hachi's Peers
4.1 Colin
4.2 Grit
4.3 Kanbei
4.4 Sensei
4.5 2T Javier
4.6 3T+ Javier
5. Synthesis

1. Introduction

Code: Select all

Eight/Hachi [HAC]
Unlocked: Complete campaign
CO Power: 3 + 2
Tag Affinity: Sensei ** (Old Men's Power/Grizzled Vets)

Unit Price: 90%
Direct Vehicle:100/100
Indirect Vehicle: 100/100
Planes: 100/100
Copters: 100/100
Direct Sea: 100/100
Indirect Sea: 100/100
Soldiers: 100/100

Other Info: None

CO Power-Barter: Unit cost becomes 50%
+10% Offence, +10% Defence

SCO Power-Merchant Union: Unit cost becomes 50% and ground unit can be
deployed from any of the player's cities.
+10% Defence, +10% Offence
2. Theoretical Potential

Spend only during SCOP.

Double funding. Pull in 14k/turn, spend 28k/turn. It really doesn't get any simpler.

3. Practical Potential

Spend money relatively normally until a turn before first SCOP. At this point, switch to build only infantry outside of SCOP, and whatever is needed during SCOP.

Double funding minus infantry costs for non SCOP turns. SCOP occurs every 2-3 turns. Pull in 14k/turn, spend equivalent of 25k/turn. Still impressive.

3.1
Capture and secure furthest properties and use a recon to speed up charging. Build 2 "useful" units maximum, switch to only infantry. First power will come with adequate amount saved. Build a Megatank and fill the rest of your city slots with infantry.

3.2
Build a Megatank, two-three "useful" units and more infantry. Get a Megatank damaged. Join your Megatanks. Free money.

3.3
Fill your cities with "useful" units. Conquer.

4. Hachi's Peers

4.1 Colin
Devolves into theoretical Black Bomb fest. Still unsolved.
4.2 Grit
A question of critical artillery mass. Still unsolved.
4.3 Kanbei
Kanbei cannot answer Megatank. Solved.
4.4 Sensei
Theoretical. Possibly a win.
4.5 Javier 2T
Theoretical. Possibly a loss.
4.6 Javier 3T+
Theoretical. Almost certainly a loss.

5. Synthesis
Very straightforward CO. Limited optimizations.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:36 pm

The megatank strategy specifically works against Kanbei because it nullifies his strength of added defense. The megatank has so much base damage, +20 def doesn't matter. Plus, the three things that deal some sort of damage to the megatank (black bomb, bomber, own megatank) are too expensive for Kanbei.

What the megatank+inf strategy does is burn all your funds on that day, plus allow you to set up your next SCOP in just 2-3 days. Consider this: Hachi's SCOP brings infantry down to $500. Hachi's next SCOP will effectively cost 6 stars (due to charge penalty.) Infantry are worth 0.4 stars, which is disproportional to every other unit. Hachi can get six stars by destroying 10 infantry and letting 10 of his new infantry be destroyed. In other words, Hachi can refill his charge bar with only $5000 worth of infantry, or less than one AW2/AWBW star. That's something to think about. Then the second SCOP can be used as the killing blow with all the extra funds saved. 15+ artillery, anyone?

I don't want to think about Javier with more than 1T, since that will never happen in practicality. Chances are, if Javier has 2T, (by taking the opponent's tower) he's already won.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Sun May 09, 2010 1:09 pm

Sven and I played 3 more games today. Shocking revelation:

Sensei > Sami
Sensei > Grit
Sensei > Colin

Sven beat me with Sensei all three times, and all three times weren't even close (surrenders on day 12). Sensei can hit the 50 unit cap by day 13. He outnumbered me 37-17 on day 11. 0.4* per infantry is SICK. Colin can get double Gold Rush and tech to 2-3 megatanks, but they get overwhelmed. Grit only has 4-5 artillery around this time, and cannot meatshield properly because Sensei's b-copters OHKO infantry on plains. Grit and Colin excel in the late game, but Sensei doesn't give them the opportunity to do that. He gets three consecutive COPs on day 11, day 12, and day 13, hitting the 50 unit cap and smothering the opponent. 4-5 arty are no match for over 30 extra infantry.

Sensei is at least the second-best CO in the game, and is more vicious than his AW2/AWBW version could ever hope to be. It's rather depressing that no one had ever bothered to playtest Sensei until now. We didn't have time to do Sensei vs. Hachi, but we feel that Hachi is the only one who can give Sensei some sort of a game. He's the only other CO who can build more units than normal. Even mighty Hachi might get beaten... who knows?

0.4* per infantry means that 2 stars are charged with about every 3.3 infantry lost. (damage dealt charges the meter at half rate) Even if Sensei lost 5 infantry without dealing any sort of damage, he gets at least 12 9HP infantry ($10800) from COP. That means for about every $1650-$2500 worth of infantry lost, he gets back at least $5400 AND the unit count advantage. This is bonkers.

Hachi/Sensei is undoubtedly the best tag team. Forget the rest; more units > everything.

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DieselPheonix

Re: Actual Games

Post by DieselPheonix » Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm

If I remember correctly, the CW "balance team" saw fit to nerf Sensei to hell when it was running AWDS's CO Power system. They never did undo the nerfs even after switching to a cost-based system.

Would it at all be possible to record a Hachi/Sensei battle?

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Re: Actual Games

Post by ThunderWalker » Sun May 09, 2010 5:18 pm

Even with a cost-based charge system, AWDS-Sensei is still broken.
My sig is a void.

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Sven

Re: Actual Games

Post by Sven » Tue May 11, 2010 2:31 pm

DieselPheonix wrote:If I remember correctly, the CW "balance team" saw fit to nerf Sensei to hell when it was running AWDS's CO Power system. They never did undo the nerfs even after switching to a cost-based system.

Would it at all be possible to record a Hachi/Sensei battle?
You're probably talking CO_Frosty there because Sensei is something I personally never touched. Perhaps even Xenesis was the one who instituted the nerf long ago and just left it as is.

You'll also never see Sensei vs. Hachi played via webcam, turns would take forever. I'm a bit reluctant to play it even in person. We're both reasonably speedy players when it's such an obvious blowout but moving 30+ units simply takes time even if you know where you want them all.

GipFace's capturing is slightly weaker than mine but he's probably a better combat tactician when the forces are reasonably deadlocked. Sensei is just stupid though. All his combat experience means absolutely nothing in bizzaro world of DS brokens, while my capping still helps me make sure I'm never down on props. I don't think it matters considering how ridiculous the games were though.

Just to add, the way you want to be playing Sensei in DS is to be timing your meter so that you can get six stars as soon as you've secured all your properties. It's worth delaying the start of the Copter Command chain if you have to to get more units that are immediately useful. Once you get started simply chain three consecutive Copter Commands and win the game, (you actually get four but the game ends before this point).

Sensei feels surprisingly flexible to use overall. I think he can honestly take out Hachi through sheer numbers.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:11 pm

I played deemo via #wwn stream. We had an awesome and very exciting game.

Map: http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=45765
1P: Rachel (deemo)
2P: Andy (GipFace)

Part 1 - First 2 hours: http://www.justin.tv/c/gipstream/b/268448594
Part 2 - 3rd hour: http://www.justin.tv/c/gipstream/b/268450753

deemo built a day 2 recon which threw off the entire capture phase and allowed him to get his expo before me. He got a little careless with the disruption, however, and I was able to eke out a 2 property advantage for two days. At 55:00 (day 10) he used SCOP, but he couldn't follow through and I bounced back with Andy's SCOP! 7MP tanks allowed me to take my expo. At this point the armies began to build up again, though I maintained my unit advantage. At 10:00 [part 2] (day 15) he had SCOP ready again, but I prepared a diamond cluster the day before!

[23:11] <deemo> come on
[23:11] <deemo> COME ONNNN
[23:11] <deemo> REALLY?
[23:11] <Gippy> I know where one of the missiles will hit
[23:11] <Gippy> rofl
[23:12] <deemo> know what gip
[23:12] <deemo> fudge your crumpets
[23:12] <deemo> I'm not SCOPing
[23:13] <deemo> god damn it

We both held back on day 15, and he still didn't invoke his SCOP on day 16. Normally, it's best to hold Andy's SCOP until after Rachel uses hers, but after thinking for a bit, I decided to invoke my SCOP and launch a surprise attack! (32:00 part 2)

[23:33] <deemo> lawl
[23:33] <deemo> so you cracked first?
[23:36] <deemo> oh jesus

The +1 MP and +30/+10 allowed me to do a few things:
- Copters destroyed tank
- Crippled antiair on the northern front with 7MP tank and copter; crippled antiair on the southern front with 3MP mech
- Crippled enemy infantry on the northern front
- Southern front charge

Since my units were hugging deemo's units at the southern front, all three of deemo's SCOP missiles on day 17 hit the northern front. With the southern front in terrible shape and no way to answer the md tank, deemo surrendered at the start of day 18.

1X replays are difficult to watch in a whole sitting, so maybe I'll edit this into an accelerated replay sometime.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:05 pm

This just in: Grit might not be broken.

"But surely that can't be!"

Oh hell yes it can. The meter charges way too fast for Grit to set up. More testing to come later~

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Xenesis
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Re: Actual Games

Post by Xenesis » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:10 am

I'm sure I remember theorytarding something along those lines way back in the day.
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Blame Game

Re: Actual Games

Post by Blame Game » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:28 am

iirc when we briefly tested vanilla AWDS using CW, I freaked out about Sensei pretty hardcore. kind of surprised to see 'this just in, sensei > sami' up there, exactly why was that considered news? I am somewhat surprised that he's considered better than hachi and colin, though.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:07 pm

DS Sami is considered to be better than AW2/AWBW Sami simply because you can get Victory March as early as day 10. But DS Sensei is better still.

We also got Von Bolt's SCOP by day 11. Fun stuff.

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deemo
Contact:

Re: Actual Games

Post by deemo » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:03 am

I still think it'd be a neat idea to put some of the DS matches up on youtube, even if they aren't under Gip's name.

Guest

Re: Actual Games

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:20 pm

Videos down :/
I liked the analysis of the match though, that was nice.


Also you mention playing as Snifit... AW1 Sturm in AW:DS? How?

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Actual Games

Post by DxDyDzD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:36 am

Uh, Snifit refers to a username, not a CO.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Time for a long-needed bump.

http://www.justin.tv/gipstream2/b/287649412

[16:19] <Gippy> http://bhhqadvancewars.blogspot.com/p/t ... oject.html
[16:19] <Sven> are we playing them vanilla or attaching forces to them
[16:20] <Sven> i'd rather not play forces because i feel the hachi force is clearly the best
[16:22] <Gippy> I think it's a pisspoor map in general because obv Colin's gonna recon
[16:23] <Sven> i'm ignoring the obvious FTA related recon issues :P
[16:24] <Gippy> Okay here's how we'll do it
[16:24] <Gippy> I'll take Hachi solo
[16:24] <Gippy> You take Orange Crush 2P to make up for the fact you have tag
[16:24] <Gippy> Play with Jake herpderp
[16:25] <Sven> loooooooool

(game starts)

[16:36] <Gippy> Meh I didn't play the other recon opening
[16:36] <Gippy> This is a safer opening so it's more fair

(lots of infantry are made)

[17:10] <Gippy> Dual Strike is so dumb
[17:11] <Sven> indeedy
[17:11] <Gippy> Hard to believe people prefer this over Days of Ruin

(Jake/Rachel try to get tag after Hachi's SCOP)

[17:46] <Gippy> See how the hell can Eagle/Sami actually fight Hachi
[17:46] <Gippy> Sven's struggling to get a 6/6 up
[17:46] <Gippy> 9/8 yeah gimme a break, Hachi gets off scop twice

(Sven ggs)

[18:19] <Bonesy> sven why are you a pussy
[18:19] <Sven> you need to have the tag in response otherwise they have a double merchant union which quite frankly
[18:19] <Sven> not worth bothering to play against
[18:20] <Gippy> Yeah, tag needs to come either before that or immediately after like you saw
[18:20] <Gippy> If there's a 1 turn wait then all the feed goes into the next one
[18:32] <Sven> with no offense intended to FHQ i almost doubt he could manage his star power correctly
[18:32] <Sven> if you fudge on that and end up giving me say 5/1 or make me switch too early that's basically game
[18:32] <Sven> if a tag doesn't answer hachi immediately after
[18:33] <Gippy> Maybe Koal/Sonja actually puts up a fight because they can try to get tag before Hachi
[18:33] <Gippy> But no way in hell Eagle/Sami does
[18:34] <Sven> lol
[18:35] <Sven> hit 50 units before eagle sami hits tag

Yeah we're so bored these days we're disproving FHQ's tag tier project. lolololol~

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FormicHiveQueen
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Actual Games

Post by FormicHiveQueen » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:21 pm

GipFace wrote:Yeah we're so bored these days we're disproving FHQ's tag tier project. lolololol~
Go for it, I could use the input. Hell, I would have asked you myself if I thought you'd actually do it.

Not that the comments from Sven don't sting a bit, but I've never claimed to be thorough with this. I'm trying to get over 700 tags into some sort of rough order as quickly as possible. That means bare minimum testing, little to no spot-checking, and a lot of games skipped based on certain assumptions. (Ergo, if I can beat X with Y I usually don't bother throwing Z into the equation.) So I mean if you guys get something I miss, just go ahead and tell me. No need for this "let's put it where he won't see it, lololololol."

On that note, though, just reading the chat log here I'm kind of suspicious. Sven's accusing me of mismanaging stars when I can get off about a 1-1 ratio of Tag vs SCOP (starting within the space of day 8-10). I'm going to have to watch the video obviously... but either I'm missing something or you guys are screwing up very badly. I mean how do you not beat Hachi with a Rachel Tag? You get two turns to shoot a bunch of units that just got nuked... and I can pull this off right after a day 8 Merchant Union and kill a Megatank or whatever else Hachi pulls out of his ass.


Edit: Screwup #1 - You didn't add an FTA counter. (If you read the forum thread you'd know I've had one on there for ages now.) Just on that alone I know I can ignore this video... for Christ sakes, how dumb do you think I am exactly? Anyway, back to watching...

Edit2: Screwup #2 - Where are the Recons? Why aren't you rushing the outer bases? Sheesh, I've skipped to day 5 here and Rachel/Jake is handing Hachi the victory. Why is there a Tank? You do not need a Tank that early on this map! God damn, this is painful to watch...

Edit3: Day 8 *head-desking* You're killing me, guy's, you are fudge killing me... one Recon and that rush to the south could have been averted and you'd have an even fight by now. Why is Jake/Rachel not more charged up? Star management my ass, this makes my "Grit R Broken" days look intelligent by comparison. Jesus, Gip's making the only intelligent moves in this game. I'm gonna stop the video there, I think I've seen enough. There are too many things wrong with how Sven is trying to handle his Tag, aside from the fact that you guys aren't smart enough to add an FTA counter. I expected a lot better than this.

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Sven

Re: Actual Games

Post by Sven » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:58 pm

we use your crumpets example map where i'm playing two bases down ofc the tag loses. update your goddamn map picture, we went for authenticity. you haven't given us much to assume the best performance from you. your opening theory is some of the weakest i've ever seen and i sincerely doubt it's gotten any better purely from your masturbatory AW practice.

the tag wins as OS. hachi wins as OS. if you recon that map you lose even further as BM as you can't keep up in funding. i have quite literally years of experience fighting FTA as BM against equal or better players and I can tell you that forcing a long game where you hope for power mismanagement is your best option of winning. GipFace could probably tell you something similar happens in DoR, but at least he actually gets to make his own powers there. I get no such luxury.

if you try and match recons as BM you lose both middle bases.

we see the same thing with pheasant and 128 squares, and these were maps that even provided FTA counters. with no counter it is no contest.

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FormicHiveQueen
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Actual Games

Post by FormicHiveQueen » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:35 pm

Sven wrote:update your goddamn map picture
It's not mine, and read the goddamn forum thread. I linked it in for a reason, dumbass.
Sven wrote:you haven't given us much to assume the best performance from you.
You've never given me many reasons to prove myself to you. Back in the day I claim Grit's a bad CO and people shoot me down. I update my game theory and get shot down again with no consideration given to being right in the first place. Piss off.
Sven wrote:your opening theory is some of the weakest i've ever seen
Based on what? You've never even seen me play except possibly for a couple YouTube videos where I was more interested in demonstrating a point than making perfect plays.
Sven wrote:the tag wins as OS. hachi wins as OS.
Gee, I wouldn't have guessed that after playing this map over and over and over again for the past five months.
Sven wrote:if you recon that map you lose even further as BM as you can't keep up in funding.
And so being the tactical genius you are you built a Tank and a Copter instead. Yeah, that worked out real well for you. :roll:
Sven wrote:i have quite literally years of experience fighting FTA as BM against equal or better players and I can tell you that forcing a long game where you hope for power mismanagement is your best option of winning.
Funny how you seemed almost bound and determined to pass on that option.
Sven wrote:if you try and match recons as BM you lose both middle bases.
That tends to happen when you don't make the map beatable, you numbskull. Do you honestly think I spent nearly five months just glossing over that? I'm not sure which is more sad: the fact that you think I'm that dumb or the fact that you did it yourself for "authenticity."

Don't stand there insulting me when all you did was read a quick summary that's not exactly known for its frequent updates. If you don't want to do the research then that's one thing. Trying to discredit me? That's another story. You accuse me of bad theory when you yourselves can't be bothered to do a little research and find that maybe, just maybe I know what I'm doing. I can be faulted for the "Grit R Broken" days because I honestly had not picked up the cart in years. But since then I have been playing fairly often, and you don't do that for several months in a row without getting good at the game. You of all people should know this.

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Sven

Re: Actual Games

Post by Sven » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:41 pm

sup bro want to play an actual game

oh wait

no you don't

WOOOOOOPS

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Bonesy
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Re: Actual Games

Post by Bonesy » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:41 pm

isn't FHQ banned

Xen

Re: Actual Games

Post by Xen » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:45 pm

No.

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Narts

Re: Actual Games

Post by Narts » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:53 pm

If no one has ever seen you play fhq it's a pretty reasonable assumption that you're not exactly hot crumpets when it comes to pvp.

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Crystal Guard 292
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Re: Actual Games

Post by Crystal Guard 292 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 pm

Angry words up in this thread.

=/
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GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:41 pm

The reason we played the way we did is because we already tried the recon opening:
http://www.justin.tv/gipstream2/b/282401121
(this was a response to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3o-IvFzjpY ; this is also why Sven thinks your openings are poor)
If Grit can defend both bases with recons, anyone can!

By the way, that YT replay doesn't have an FTA counter infantry, so our best assumption was that we wouldn't play with one either! By demanding that we play with one while your replays don't, you are only being a hypocrite. Whatever, I guess we'll just have to play on another map! Oi Sven, up for another? lololol~

For the sake of ESPORTS. Remember, it's not true ESPORTS if it's not in all caps. (link)

On a serious note, we'd probably only play dual COs a few times for sh!ts and giggles before going back to standard single CO play.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:09 am

OH YEAH

http://www.justin.tv/narts/b/287861859
GipFace (Colin/Sasha) vs Narts (Hachi/Sensei)

I GUESS FHQ WUZ RITE ALL ALONG, TRUST FUND SO IMBA

OH WAIT I COULD'VE DUN DAT crumpets WIT ANY TAG POWER

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Narts

Re: Actual Games

Post by Narts » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:29 am

no, not just any

http://forums.advancewars.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4711

every tag is unique, like a snowflake~

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DTaeKim
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Re: Actual Games

Post by DTaeKim » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:34 pm

TBQH, I'm surprised BHHQ is still active.
What can change the nature of a man?

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:39 pm

Only if you count one person playing himself as active trolololol~

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Narts

Re: Actual Games

Post by Narts » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:13 pm

Even if I played less than suboptimally there that game mostly served to reinforce my preconception that tag games are only about whoever pulls off their tag power first. The individual powers of the CO's don't matter, unless Hachi or Sensei are involved. They are the only CO's with hax enough powers that they can turn the tables even after a double turn by the opponent, that's why they're the only individual CO's that matter. Beyond that the only relevant stats are the lengths of the CO meters which determine how fast you can charge up a tag.

So I believe the real tier list of tags would look something like this:

Grizzled Vets
Every tag involving Hachi and a non-Sensei partner sorted in ascending order by the length of the partner's meter
Every tag involving Sensei and a non-Hachi partner sorted in ascending order by the length of the partner's meter
Hachi
Sensei
Every other tag sorted in ascending order by the combined length of their meters

If the map is tiny or is focused around retarded HQ capture then even Sensei and Hachi become irrelevant and it's just about whose meters are the shortest and can go for the day 10 rout or ghetto victory march first. Creepy Crawly FTW.

And this is why we don't play tag games.

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:54 am

Narts' post is the most intelligent post I have read in ages. Please have my babies.

So the real question is... what's worse? Rachel/Koal or Von Bolt/Eagle? Eagle/Hawke is probably the worst, yeah.

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Satel

Re: Actual Games

Post by Satel » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:55 am

Eagle/Hawke? Long to charge, not powerful cuz of the 70%, but, man, the powers pack quite a punch, don't they?
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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DTaeKim
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Re: Actual Games

Post by DTaeKim » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:39 am

The powers mean nothing if your opponent gets two tag powers to their one.
What can change the nature of a man?

GipFace
Rank: Lord of Children Games

Re: Actual Games

Post by GipFace » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:36 am

By the way, I find it funny that FHQ's been harping on "700 tags" when it's not even close to that. We can tone this down quite a bit:

1. Remove Jake, Lash, and Grit, because there's no point picking them when you have better options.
2. Remove Hachi and Sensei because we know they rock and every tag involving either of them wins.
3. Lump all COs with the same style together. For example, for mass damage you wouldn't want anyone other than Rachel, and for universal +MP, you wouldn't want anyone other than Andy unless you are specifically going for Adder/Koal. For vehicles, you would pick Javier if the map has a tower and Jess or Kindle (you're not using her COP) if it doesn't.

CO list is now as follows:
Colin
Kanbei
Sami
Eagle
MASS DAMAGE
Sonja
VEHICLES
UNIVERSAL +MP
Sasha
LUCKY

C(10,2) = 10!/(2!8!) = 45

Then add DOUBLE mass damage (Olaf/Rachel), DOUBLE vehicles (Jess/Kindle), DOUBLE universal +MP (Adder/Koal), and DOUBLE lucky (Nell/Flak) for a total of... 49 REAL TAG (tm) COMBOS!

49 REAL TAG (tm) COMBOS!

Look at that FHQ, with some simple math and deduction, your work has been minimized to less than double of the full CO list! Now you don't need to waste your time trying out Drake/Koal Drake/Adder Drake/Andy Olaf/Koal Olaf/Adder Olaf/Andy blahblahblah and just try out the combos that actually matter!

49 REAL TAG (tm) COMBOS!

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Crystal Guard 292
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Re: Actual Games

Post by Crystal Guard 292 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:06 am

Huh. I kinda like that. Cool. ^_^
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deemo
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Re: Actual Games

Post by deemo » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:07 am

i like how fhq wrote in japanese in the end.

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