Normal Campaign TAS WIP

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-STL-

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by -STL- » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:56 am

Got 3/300 on my DS now^^
Future TAS tests will be needed to show if the 3 day rout is faster than the 5 day cap.

fcastro

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by fcastro » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:56 am

Excellent work! I followed your pics, the end can be made a bit easier if u kill md tank with art+mech+bcop and road tank with mech+5hp bcop (so it needs to be moved 2 more east next to black bomb at d1, whereas the other injured bcop is on recife still).

Btw, set luck theory terrificly works for me, if ever i get what seems to be a 0 luck roll i select a unit, move the cursor like 1n1w, withdraw and then generally get my 9 ^^

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:55 am

Found the Mission 8 strat. It's a capture this time, after all those routs.

M8: Colin, no skills, 7/300 or 7/200

Day 1:
Build Inf W, APC E.

Day 2:
Inf 3E, APC 1S 1E.
Build Inf W, AA E.

Day 3:
Load Inf, APC 3S 1E.
AA 3S 2E.
Inf 1E, build APC E.

Day 4:
APC, AA 5S.
Load Inf, APC 4S 2E.

Day 5:
AA 4S 1W, attack Inf.
S APC 4S 2W, drop N.
N APC 4S, drop S.

Day 6:
S APC 1W, Inf cap HQ.
AA 1S, kill Inf (If you don't, your score will be 200).
N APC 4S 2W.

Day 7:
Finish HQ cap.

M9 next. The min. days is 3, but I think that's done with a Tag Power, which wastes time.
The fastest strat is probably to lose the top screen, but still destroy the Black Crystal with a Bomber.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:16 pm

Isn´t it a must to win the top screen to beat m9 or was that only m18?

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:02 pm

Nope, there's nothing protecting the Black Crystal in Victory or Death. The giant fortress in the sky only drops bombs on the center base. I can get 3/300 in HC without winning the top screen by using Eagle with skills and COPing.
Does the 3/300 for NC involve skills or Tag Powers? If it does then I won't look for that strat since no-one has skills at that point, and using Tags would take up a lot of time.
For Omens and Signs you deal 1% to the minicannons until you win the top screen, so yes, you need to win.

I think I overreacted when saying that skills should not be used. In fact, skills take many missions to acquire - so far, no CO should have earned any skills. I don't think any CO would be able to reach the useful skills like Prairie Dog or Pathfinder during the course of the TAS. In short, there shouldn't be any problems with regards to skills, whether they should be used or not.
Here's a roundup of each CO's EXP before M9. All are still at level 0.
Jake: 600 (M1, M2)
Rachel: 600 (M4, M5)
Max: 200 or 300 (M3)
Colin: 500 or 600 (M6, M8)
Sasha: 300 (M7)
From my experience so far getting full Speed and Tech is not a problem, even without having to spam Infantry on the last few days. On the other hand, if you don't make some attacks in an effort to save time, you'll end up with 0 Power instead of 100.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:50 am

[quote="that DxDyDzD"]Nope, there's nothing protecting the Black Crystal in Victory or Death. The giant fortress in the sky only drops bombs on the center base. I can get 3/300 in HC without winning the top screen by using Eagle with skills and COPing.
Does the 3/300 for NC involve skills or Tag Powers? If it does then I won't look for that strat since no-one has skills at that point, and using Tags would take up a lot of time.
For Omens and Signs you deal 1% to the minicannons until you win the top screen, so yes, you need to win.
[/quote]

Well nothing is not really true, there are AAs and a Fighters and you might need to bring some Fighters or so, if you want to win w/o TAG. Besides you can´t actually lose the top front as the AI controls it. So TAG is for sure the fastest option.

[quote="that DxDyDzD"]
I think I overreacted when saying that skills should not be used. In fact, skills take many missions to acquire - so far, no CO should have earned any skills. I don't think any CO would be able to reach the useful skills like Prairie Dog or Pathfinder during the course of the TAS. In short, there shouldn't be any problems with regards to skills, whether they should be used or not.
Here's a roundup of each CO's EXP before M9. All are still at level 0.
Jake: 600 (M1, M2)
Rachel: 600 (M4, M5)
Max: 200 or 300 (M3)
Colin: 500 or 600 (M6, M8)
Sasha: 300 (M7)
From my experience so far getting full Speed and Tech is not a problem, even without having to spam Infantry on the last few days. On the other hand, if you don't make some attacks in an effort to save time, you'll end up with 0 Power instead of 100.[/quote]

Yeah besides the luck skill i don´t think we will really see much else. Double exp. if you only use 1 CO in an army was only in HC right?
Btw what where the unlock times?
Was it like:
Jake: forced on m1,m2, from m5
Max: forced on m3, from m5
Rachel: forced on m4, from m5
Colin: forced on m6, from m8
Sasha: forced on m7, from m8
Sensei/Grimm: from m13
Jess/Javier: from m16
Hawke/Lash: forced on BM m20, from m21 (?)
all but Bolt Guard, Adder/Flak (?), Hachi,Nell: from m23

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:31 pm

@STL: If you don't send anything to the top front the AI will lose. The only question is: on which day, 3 or 4? Not sending anything also minimizes time spent by the AI moving its units. Maybe setting the AI to defensive will also make it move less...I'll test later.
The plains/forest move=1 skills are also useful for Pincer Strike, but IIRC a Lash/Sami Tag Power can finish in 3 days without skills.
I don't know about the double EXP. I never paid any attention to the EXP gained at the end of a mission, and I always used 2 COs for each army. I can test it out on M10, since I've already completed M9.
I think your info about unlock times is correct, except that Hawke/Lash are the last COs to be unlocked (There are only 2 BH slots in the NC CO select screen).
Minor note: If ALAKTORN doesn't want to go for the Black Boat/Bomb/Piperunner missions, the conventional mission numbers will be incorrect from M10 onwards. To avoid confusion, we should refer to missions by name.
Anyway, only the Black Boat seems useful, and in only one mission, Crystal Calamity. It may be worth it not to unlock those missions.

So ALAKTORN, do you want to go for the lab map missions? And also, have you decided whether you want 300 points in every map?

M9, Max/Anyone but Colin, 4/300+20 for Black Crystal

Day 1:
S Bomber 6E.
Smost Fighter 5E.
Next Smost Fighter 4E.
Tank 2N 4E.

Day 2:
Tank destroy Recon.
Bomber 1N 2E, destroy AA.
Smost Fighter 8E.
Next Smost Fighter 9E.

Enemy Day 2:
Enemy Fighter should be at 7HP.

Day 3:
10HP Fighter 2N 1E, destroy Fighter.
Damaged Fighter 2E.
Bomber 1N 6E.

Day 4:
Bomber destroy Crystal.

Comments:
Only Max can destroy the Black Crystal without a COP (and COPing wastes time), so we must use Max for the bottom front. Unless...some other CO needs EXP so that he/she can use skills in a later mission, but we'll think about that later.
For the top front, ideally the AI will survive Day 3, so that the defeat dialogue doesn't trigger. Thus anyone but Colin (90/100) is OK here.
I tried to minimize the top front time by not sending any units there.
I tried to minimize the enemy Recon/AA movement by destroying those units on Day 2. Coincidentally, 1) if you move the Tank 2N 4E on Day 1, the enemy Art in the centre also moves less, and 2) destroying those 2 units gives 100 Power and helps save 7 points of Tech.
If you destroy only 1 unit in the west (the AA), Koal will activate his COP.
Possible improvements include using less Fighters to assist in destroying the Black Crystal, but I'm not sure if that is possible. The enemy AAs and Fighters near the Black Crystal are set to defensive so you're definitely going to have to deal with 1 Fighter and 2 AAs, even if you attack from the north.

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:28 pm

Defensive AI seems to make the AI move less. I only tested once so it may not be accurate.
Selecting only 1 CO for an army does double EXP. The picture of the second CO is replaced by "SOLO EXP X 2".
Also, I made a mistake last post: Sami, Grit, Eagle and Sonja are unlocked on Dark Ambition.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:07 pm

looks good, keep it up DxDyDzD :)

I'm not gonna do the extra maps, and about 300 I still don't know but I think not getting it is fine

this evening I might be able to TAS something

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:18 pm

OK wait isn´t it obviously better to use TAG on M9? Since you then only have 2 of your days and 1 Enemy day on the top front, instead of 3 of both, sure they are shorter with less units but still it should be longer.

For the numbering we should keep at numbers and use the one they have with all bonus missions unlocked under which they are listed on WWN and everywhere else.

So Andy, Olaf, Kanbei and Drake are already unlocked to play on Crystal Calamity? Btw Black Boat is totally useless on it. I expect we use Sensei for Blue, anyone for Green and finished with 2 red Arts on Day 5 with Jake.

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:53 pm

I can't tell for sure which is faster, but the Tag Power animation sure takes up a lot of time. Anyway I can't figure out how to win in 3 days without skills so you'll have to provide the strategy.
The number of days spent in the top front isn't really an issue since there are no "Day X" animations for it. At least for M9 and M18: Omens and Signs (both are flying fortress missions), maybe not for M12: Lightning Strikes and M25: Ring of Fire.

The cloned COs (Andy, Olaf, Drake, Kanbei) are not available for use in NC. So the last few COs unlocked would be:
Hawke, Lash: forced on M20: Muck Amok, available on M21: Healing Touch onwards
Sami, Grit, Eagle, Sonja: Available on M23: Dark Ambition onwards

My M22: Crystal Calamity idea (just by looking at the map) was to build a Day 1 Black Boat as Colin to bait the Md. Tank north. Maybe it doesn't work, maybe it does. But let's wait till we get to that mission so that our ideas can be tested.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:22 am

Ok tried M9, i think the Fighters do 55% against the Cannons, Max´s 66% then. On the east cannons side where you didn´t send a Bomber the cannon will be attacked by 6 and 9HP Fighter which will make 39 and 59 damage, so 98 in total... What a fail >_> so i guess we stick to the 4 day win.
I also tried M5-8 strats. On M5 it will be very tough to say what the fastest way will be :( The M6 strat looked very good while being luckintensive on Enemy Day 1.
M7 looked good but maybe there´s some improvement, f.e. it would be good not to use the APC to avoid the supply, i know the Tank somehow moves bad if you are 1 less East. On M8 i expect i being better to move the first APC 1 more south to avoid the double supply on AA, we get an attack and an Enemy CO swap in return which should be shorter.

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:07 pm

True, the Fighters do 55% to Minicannons.
Nice to see you playing too, be sure to post strats or improvements if you find them!
For M8 there might be more to it: if you let the south APC get attacked by the Piperunner, the Tank may decide to destroy that APC on Day 6, rather than attack the north APC. Then the enemy Inf can attack your capping Inf. Sadly I can't test this out as I overwrote the save. But I still have a save at M9, so if you find anything there, let me know. :)

I've been trying to find a good strat for M10. Here's some of my findings:
1) I think the 4 day rout will take more time than a 5 day capture, since you need to Tag, watch Rachel's SCOP, and watch the CO Swap animation, all of which take up time. So, Jake/Rachel (for luck, Jake also gets his plains boost near the HQ) or Max/Anyone is the best. Max is less luck intensive since his Sub can OHKO the enemy Black Boat even with 0 luck.
2) In order to win in 5 days, we must not let Kindle use her COP since the capping Inf would get hurt. She activates her COP when 20% or more of our units are on properties. Since we start with 12 units, we cannot lose more than 1. At the start, 3 units are on properties, so we must move two off (the Tank can be moved off the HQ to assist the capture). Losing 1 unit or less also gives full Tech.
3) We'll want to destroy Black Boats and the Battleship as fast as possible to avoid the repair animations. So, the Sub should move 5E and dive on Day 1. If not, the west Black Boat would be able to avoid it. Once it's dived it shouldn't surface, since the remaining enemy Black Boat would get afraid and move away.
4) The enemy Infantry can prevent the main attackers from using the south bridge if you let it attack an Art/APC on Day 2. Since the Art is initially on a city, this also counts towards the units we have to move off. Later on it'll try to move 1N 1W, so you need to put another unit N of the Art to stop that.

My strat is: Sub destroys Black Boat & Battleship, Tank and Inf get transported to the HQ island, and Tank, Recon and Art hold off the attackers.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:40 pm

Yeah 5 day win should be faster in realtime for m10. If we would really charge that TAG we would cap the HQ in 4 days with it though.
Also shouldn´t it be enough to destroy the BS like the test TAS did?
And what do you mean by we can´t lose more than 1 unit?
If we don´t kill the BBs we don´t even charge her COP right?

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:19 pm

The west Black Boat will repair the Battleship if it survives Day 1. However, if letting it do so is faster than destroying it, then yes, we should only destroy the Battleship and leave the BBs alone. The Black Boat should still drop the enemy Inf close to the south bridge, so that you can stall by putting up the Art as a punching bag.
If you lose 2 or more units, you'll have 10 units (or less). If the Inf is on the HQ and some other unit is on a property, Kindle will activate her COP since 2/10=20% of your units are on properties, thus slowing the capture. This can be circumvented by not leaving any units on properties, but I have to use the defense boost provided by the neutral city in the center to slow down the attackers.
On the other hand, if you don't charge Kindle's COP then she can't use it. My current strat destroys the enemy BB, 3HP Battleship and Art, damages the enemy Tank for 3HP, while my Recon takes ~7HP damage, Art takes ~4, and Tank takes 9 at best. At worst the Tank is destroyed, the enemy Recon gets through and 6-4s the Mech. Seems like Kindle will get her COP even if the BB isn't destroyed.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:48 pm

where possible using only 1 CO should be faster btw, it means less menu time I think

I'm still feeling bad so I haven't TAS'd anything

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Update on M9: Using the Defense AI makes it less likely to move into minicannon range, so the "minicannon firing" animation won't occur and you save time. It also prolongs the AI's life span.

More on M10:
1) The enemy Art near the HQ moves away if you drop a Recon near it.
2) Using the south Mech is faster since it's closer to the Lander's loading position.
Thus the HQ capture is now managed by Mech+Recon instead of Inf+Tank.

M10 5/300
Jake/Rachel is recommended because it makes the Tank kill easier. It can save you a Tank attack.
Max can't be used because his Art lacks range.

Day 1:
Sub 5E, dive.
S Mech 2E.
Lander 2N 3E.
Art 4E.
Both Tanks 5E.
(Optional: Recon 6E.)

Enemy Day 1:
The enemy land units must form a square in the northeast.
The west Black Boat must be in range of your Sub.

Day 2:
Sub 2N 3E, destroy Black Boat.
Load Mech & Recon. Lander 5S 1E, drop Recon E and Mech S.
Art 3E.
N Tank 4E, S Tank 3E.

Enemy Day 2:
Tank and Inf must 1E of Tanks.
Art, Recon, AA must be far east.

Day 3:
Art destroy Tank.
Sub 1S 2E, destroy Bship.
S Mech 2E.

Enemy Day 3:
Inf should go 1N 1W.
Recon should move onto city 2E of neutral city.
Art, AA should stay east.

Day 4:
Start capturing HQ.

Enemy Day 4:
Inf should move 2W.
Recon should move 1W.

Day 5:
Finish capturing HQ.

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:47 pm

M12 strat found. This one reminded me a lot of DoR (specifically, Slime Cove) because two AAs run around destroying every Inf/Mech they find. Grimm's 80 Def means that a bland AA can OHKO his Inf/Mech on a base.

M12 Lightning Strikes 7/300 Rout
Rachel/Anyone, no skills. Note that Rachel is forced for the bottom front.
For the top front, do nothing. Yield on Day 6.

Day 1:
Mech 2E.
AA 4N 2W.
Build Inf in E base.

Day 2:
AA 3N 3E.
Inf 1N 1E.
Build AA west, Mech E.

Day 3:
N AA 6E, S AA 6N.
N Mech 1E, S Mech 2E. One of the Mechs must destroy the Inf.
Build Art E.

Enemy Day 3:
Recon v Mech must end 9-2.

Day 4:
E AA 1S 5E, destroy Inf. W AA 1N 5E.
Move healthy Mech onto forest, destroy Recon.
Inf 1E.
Art 1N 1E.

Enemy Day 4:
Inf v Mech must end 6-6.

Day 5:
E AA 4S 1W destroy Mech, W AA 6E.
Art attack Recon.
Mech destroy Recon, join other Mech to that Mech.

Day 6:
Art attack Mech.
Mech destroy Mech.
Inf 2E, capture. (The capture provokes the enemy Inf into suiciding.)
S AA destroy Mech, N AA 2N 3E destroy Inf.

Top Day 6:
Yield.

Day 7:
AAs destroy remaining units.

M13 is next. Colin on BM should be able to capture the HQ in 6 days by building Inf+Recon every day.

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:16 pm

LOL Triple post.
M13 Frozen Fortress 6/300 HQ Capture
OS: Grimm/Sensei, BM: Colin/Anyone

OS:
Day 1: End.
Day 2: Build AA.
Day 3: AA 2E, destroy Inf.
Yielding on Day 3 will save time since you won't get the "DAY X" animation for OS if you do. In fact, maybe yielding on Day 1 will save even more time.

BM:
Day 1: Build 2 Infs.
Day 2: N Inf 3W, S Inf 1N 2W. Build Tank S.
Day 3: Tank 1N 5W, both Infs 2W. Build Art S.
Day 4: Tank 2N 2W attack Inf, both Infs 1N 2W (destroying enemy Inf with S Inf), Art 1N 4W.
Day 5: Both Infs 1N 2W (capping HQ with S Inf), Art 1N 4W.
Day 6: Finish HQ Cap.

BH (enemy):
Day 1: Must only capture 1 base near the HQ.
Day 4: Your Art must survive.
Day 5: For minimal enemy movement, Tank must move 3W and attack Tank, and AA must destroy Inf from base.

It's possible that some different strategy for OS will result in lower time. You can 1) build nothing or 2) 2HKO the enemy Inf, maybe with Art (but the Art will be resupplied after the first attack). If using the latter, It may be faster if you don't change the OS COs to Grimm and Sensei.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:10 am

"Lightning Strikes" (M12) can be routed in 5 days without skills. I believe I made -STL- aware of this some time ago, who stated that he believed that number of days had only been achieved with skills up until then.

-Translucent Air

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:42 am

Translucent Air wrote:"Lightning Strikes" (M12) can be routed in 5 days without skills. I believe I made -STL- aware of this some time ago, who stated that he believed that number of days had only been achieved with skills up until then.

-Translucent Air
well that's nice, do you have a D2D for that?

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:19 am

Considering that it doesn't any require any special enemy movements according to my notes, I didn't believe it necessary. The goal is to get Grimm to produce a tank at the enemy base already covered by allied artillery. You'll need a couple artillery, an additional mech, a couple infantry, and an APC.

-Translucent Air

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:13 pm

Tried M12 again, this is the closest I got.
M12 Lightning Strikes 6/300 Rout
Rachel/Anyone, no skills
For the top front, do nothing. Yield on Day 5.

Day 1:
Mech 2E.
AA 4N 2W.
Build Mech E.

Day 2:
N Mech 2E.
Base Mech 1N 1E, cap.
AA 1N 5E.
Build AA W, Inf E.

Day 3:
Inf 2E, destroy Inf.
N Mech 2E attack Recon (8-3 is best), S Mech 2E destroy Recon.
E AA 6E, W AA 6N.
Build Art E.

Day 4:
8HP Mech attack Recon, 6HP Mech destroy Recon.
Art 1N 1E.
E AA 1S 5E, destroy Inf, W AA 1N 5E.

Day 5:
Art attack Recon.
N Mech 1E, S Mech 1N 1E destroy Recon.
Inf 1N 2E.
E AA destroy E Inf, W AA 6E.

Top Day 5: Yield.

Enemy Day 5: Your Mech must be destroyed.

Day 6:
Inf 2E and Mech 1E, destroy Inf.
AAs destroy Infs.

I'll retry later with TA's advice. Seems like Grimm always produces Recon+Inf though.
M15 Verdant Hills is easy to finish in 4 days with anyone. The question is, is moving the targets for the enemy Artillery away faster, or should you just leave them there and let them be destroyed?
Protip: On BM Day 1, pressing L moves the cursor to the west Mech next to the APC immediately.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:12 pm

Reviewing "Lightning Strikes," the second artillery often isn't necessary at all and doesn't need to be deployed for a tool-assisted speedrun. Its primary function was to simplify routing of the enemy should Rachel suffer extremely terrible luck on Day 5, i.e. a _9% not resulting in a favorable roll, and even then, other units should still be able to mop up.

On the subject of "Verdant Hills," if I recall correctly, I don't believe it is that easy of an HQ capture in 4 days. Completing in 5 days should be relatively easy but not 4 days, especially without skills. To place a mech in position for a 4-day HQ capture, you will likely need to use Sensei (or have the "APC Boost"/"Transport Move" skill) for Blue Moon on Day 1. Additionally, since the Green Earth team captures the southern neutral tower over Days 1 and 2, they will have a healthy infantry-class unit ready and waiting to prevent an expedient HQ capture on Day 3. Thus, while a 4-day HQ capture without skills is certainly possible, it should require a bit of planning.


-Translucent Air

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:46 pm

For M12 Lightning Strikes, do you remember the build order? I tried D1 Art, D2 Mech, D3 Inf without success.
For M15 Verdant Hills you're right, I remembered wrongly. The min. days without skills or Sensei is 5 days.
edit: Actually, maybe 4 days is possible with Sensei/Jake. Use Sensei for the APC boost and use Jake's COP to hit the tower-capping Mech with the NE Rockets (after moving them 1W on Day 1). The downside is that you need to swap COs and activate a COP, once each.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:04 pm

For Day 1 of "Lightning Strikes," deploy an APC and infantry. On Day 2, deploy the artillery. Finally, deploy an infantry and mech on Day 3. (You may alternatively wait to deploy the APC until Day 2 and/or switch the infantry to a mech on Day 3. Another possibility is to replace the infantry and APC team with a Day 4 artillery, which I initially recommended when listing deployed units. If everything goes favorably, going for the second artillery is likely faster due to needing fewer movements and limiting deployments so that only the eastern allied base is used.) Deploying an artillery on Day 1 doesn't make much sense since you don't yet have enough direct units on the ground. Also, remember to allow Grimm the ability to deploy a tank; in your 6-day strategy, you essentially forced Grimm to build a recon and infantry no matter what.

As I said in my last post, completing "Verdant Hills" in 4 days without skills is quite possible. Sensei paired with one of three possible allied COs (Jake is one of them) allows positioning of the capturing allied mech as well as nullification of the offending enemy mech with CO Powers, which I am fully aware is undesirable.

-Translucent Air

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:30 pm

Image
YES! YES!

M12 Lightning Strikes 5/300
Rachel/Anyone, no skills.
For the top front, do nothing. Don't yield.

Day 1:
Mech 1E.
AA 4N 2W.
Build APC W, Inf E.

Day 2:
AA 3N 3E.
APC 3N.
Inf 2N 1E.
Build Inf W, Mech E.

Day 3:
AA 6E.
Load Inf, APC 5N, drop E.
N Mech 2E, S Mech 1N.
Inf 2E.
Build Art E.

Day 4:
AA 1S 5E, destroy Inf.
S Inf 1N 2E.
N Inf 2N, fire silo, hit both Recons only.
Both Mechs 2E, destroy Recons.
Art 1N 1E.

Enemy Day 4:
Inf v Mech must end 7-5.

Day 5:
AA destroy Inf.
Art attack Tank, 10-3.
5HP Mech destroy Tank.
Inf suicide on enemy Inf (enemy Inf should have 6HP now).
10HP Mech 2E, capture.

Enemy Day 5:
Inf suicide on Mech.

The reason you cannot yield is that the Inf must suicide on the Mech. If you yield, then Grimm will bust out a Tag, makes it impossible for the suicide to occur and wastes time anyway.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:26 pm

Congrats on the win! I especially like how you used the threat of base capture to force the enemy suicide on Day 5.

For reference, below is a possible instance for the final day of an "optimized" version of my strategy. (I had made a few additional comments/revisions in my last post explaining it.) From bottom to top: the southern artillery kills the southern infantry, the second artillery and mechs (and infantry, if necessary) destroy the tank, and the anti-air kills the final infantry. Since I do complete on Rachel's turn, I guess one could yield the secondary front to save time. (For the screenshot, I actually let the allied AI play until its defeat on Day 4.)

Image

-Translucent Air

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:44 pm

Interesting. Your strat should save more time since 1) you can yield on Day 4, 2) you don't use the silo and 3) The enemy doesn't get his Day 5.
I'll try to get this faster strat.
BTW: for better graphics, go into the options menu and change the GBA mode to VGA (poppy bright).

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DxDyDzD
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Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:56 pm

Better M12 strat:
M12 Lightning Strikes 5/300
Rachel/Anyone, no skills.
For the top front, do nothing. Yield on Day 4.

Day 1:
AA 4N 2W.
Mech 2E.
Build Mech E.

Day 2:
AA 3N 3E.
Base Mech 1E.
Build Mech E.

Day 3:
AA 6E.
Both S Mechs 2E.
Build Mech E.

Day 4:
AA 1S 5E, destroy Inf.
N Mech 2E, destroy Recon.
Damaged Mech 1E, attack Recon.
River Mech 1N 1E, destroy Recon.
Base Mech 2E.
Build Art/Rockets E.

Top Day 4: Yield.

Day 5:
AA destroys Inf.
Rockets destroy Inf.
10HP Mechs destroy Tank.

Perhaps using 3 Mechs only is possible. The main difficulty is that the west enemy Inf must not move back onto the base to attack a Mech.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:49 pm

man, I wish I could have part in the strategizing, but that would take time away from TASing :(

today I think I might reTAS TS M5, after that if it doesn't take long and I still feel like TASing I'll redo C1 with more optimization

Slazzy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Slazzy » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:37 am

Just curious, why do you have to yield on the top ?

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samurai goroh
Location: Red Canyon hideout

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by samurai goroh » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:43 am

Slazzy wrote:Just curious, why do you have to yield on the top ?
I suppose is the fastest method, because letting the CO move takes time & routing it is too slow. (BTW, he resigns on the last day in order to avoid the TAG, which has been mentioned before, just pointing it out again)

Slaz

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Slaz » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:51 am

oh i thought he wasnt doing tas so therefore it seemed weird but also he would've avoided the tag even if he didnt resign

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:15 pm

M12 Lightning Strikes 3 Mech Strategy
Rachel/Anyone, no skills.
For the top front, do nothing. Yield on Day 4.

Day 1:
AA 4N 2W.
Mech 2E.
Build Mech E.

Day 2:
AA 3N 3E.
Base Mech 2N.
Build Mech E.

Day 3:
AA 6E.
Both N Mechs 2E.
Base Mech 1E.

Day 4:
AA 1S 5E, destroy Inf.
S Mech 2E, destroy Recon.
Damaged Mech attack Recon.
N Mech 1S 1E, destroy Recon.
Build Rockets E.

Day 5:
AA destroy Inf.
Rockets attack Tank, damaged Mech 1E destroy Tank.
Mech 1S, destroy Inf.

@ALAKTORN: You could always play on your DS. Spend some time away from the computer. :D
@Slaz: For the 5 day with Inf suicide strat it's already explained, Grimm musn't Tag before attacking the Mech, otherwise the suicide becomes impossible.
And yes, my strats are designed for the TAS so I try to save as much time as possible by yielding to skip the enemy's turn.
M13 Frozen Fortress discovery: Kindle doesn't swap out for Jugger unless the Inf near OS is damaged/destroyed, so if OS yields on Day 1, Kindle will stay out, and will OHKO the Art with the Tank on the airport.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:49 pm

For TAG battles, AI switches everytime, the 1st Co has more charged than the 2nd CO i think.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:26 pm

not sure about the precise amounts but certainly AI tries to charge up TAG

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:11 pm

STL seems to be right. "more charged" should mean a larger fraction instead of more stars. For example, in VS mode, against a Koal/Von Bolt team on General, if Koal's bar is fully filled and Von Bolt has 5+ stars, the AI is smart enough to switch to Von Bolt to try to fill his bar.

M15 Verdant Hills 5/194, 5/200 or 5/300
OS: Anyone, BM: Anyone if going for 194/200, Grimm if going for 300.

5/194 strat
OS Day 1: Yield.
BM Day 1: Load SW Mech adjacent to APC, APC 1S 5E, drop E.
BM Day 2: Mech next to APC 1N.
BM Day 3: Mech 1N 1E.
BM Day 4: Mech 2N, cap HQ.
BM Day 5: Finish HQ cap.

To avoid enemy CO swaps (5/200):
Day 1:
SW Rockets 1N, SW Mech 1W.
SE Rockets 1S.
NE Art 1N, NE Rockets 1E.
NW Mech 2W. (If you don't move this Mech, it'll get destroyed on Day 4. Then the AI will swap COs.)

Day 2:
NW Mech 2W.

Power targets (5/300):
Day 5:
Art, Rockets & Mech in SW destroy Inf.
Art, Mech in SE destroy Mech.

Lots of further optimizations are possible:
1) Is it faster to let the AI attack your units? Take note that as soon as an attack occurs, the AI will swap COs on that turn since Jess has fewer stars than Javier.
2) Should you try to destroy the AI's vehicles to minimize enemy movements? Again, keep in mind that the AI will swap COs.
Grimm can destroy the east Recon and Art on Day 1 by moving his SE Recon 1W to reveal them, and attacking them with the Rockets and Arts. This also gives you the Power score immediately.
3) How many times should the AI swap COs? The animation takes very long, so I tried to make the AI not swap COs by holding off all attacks until Day 5. Unfortunately, this makes the Power score attainable with 5 attacks. If the AI had swapped to Jess (who doesn't get a defense boost from towers), the Rockets could possibly OHKO an Inf/Mech each. The Power score would be attainable with 2 attacks only.
If the NW Mech is not moved, the AI will switch to Jess on Day 4. The Power score can be obtained with 3 attacks: SW Art+Rockets destroy Inf, SE Art destroy Mech.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:35 am

M16 Snow Hunters 4/283 or 4/300, +35 points for Minicannons & Pipe Seam
Grimm, no skills

Day 1:
Lander 1S 5E.
S Art 1S 2E.
E Md. Tank 1N 4W.
HQ Rockets 3W.
Missiles, Road Rockets 2W.

Enemy Day 1:
BB drops Inf N.
Your Art must survive.

Day 2:
Join healthy Art to damaged Art.
Road Rockets attack pipe seam.
W Md. Tank 2N 1W, destroy pipe seam.
W AA 1S 5W, destroy Bomber.
Plains Rockets 2W.
Remaining Md. Tank 3N 2W.

Enemy Day 2:
Your Art must survive.

Day 3:
Missiles, AA destroy BCops.
W Md. Tank 3N 2W.
E Md. Tank 1N 3W.
W Rockets 2N 1W.
Art 1S 1E.
Tank 2S 3E.
(300: Rockets destroy Inf.)

Enemy Day 3:
Art attacks Tank.
Piperunner destroys Art.

Day 4:
SCOP.
Md. Tanks 4W, destroy Minicannons.
Rockets destroy Minicannon.

Had a quick playthrough of M18 Omens and Signs. This one is sheer unit hell. With all those Black Boats running around supplying/repairing everything it'll take quite some time even with tool assistance.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:16 pm

M18 Omens and Signs 5/300
Max/Grimm, Grimm with Luck skill. (Theoretically, it can be done without it, but requires a lot more luck abuse.)
Set AI to Defense.
Notes:
1) Of the 3 Carriers, the left one should take minimal counter damage, and the center and right ones should take maximal counter damage. This is to avoid Jugger activating his COP on Day 3.
2) Send the Fighters up in the order described. Otherwise, their movements may be different, e.g. the Fighter that's meant to destroy the Black Bomb goes back and attacks the enemy Fighters instead, letting the BB blow up.

Day 1:
Bomber 6S 1E.
E Carrier of the trio destroy Tcop.
Delete NW Carrier of quartet.
Drop Stealth.
NE Fighter to 2S 1W of enemy Art.
SE Fighter onto Tower 3E of Bomber.
SW Fighter to 1N of previous Fighter.

Day 2:
Bomber 1E, break seam.
Center Carrier of trio drop N.
Tower Fighter 5S 1E, send.
1N of Tower Fighter 1S 7E, send.
Unmoved Fighter to 1E of northern shoal, send.
Last Fighter 7E, send.
Stealth in SE attack seam.

Top Day 2:
4 Fighters must attack the north Fighters, 2 Fighters must attack the south Fighters.
The damaged Fighters in the north must have 6 and 9HP after the Minicannon strike.
Either:
1) Enemy Fighters in the south must have 5HP or less combined, or
2) Southmost Fighter has 9HP.

Day 3:
Send Bomber from where it is.
Cruiser 1S 2E, desroy Fighter.
Stealth near trio of Carriers 6N.
Delete middle Carrier.
Left Carrier of trio 1E, drop N.
SE Stealth break seam.

Enemy Day 3:
COP shouldn't be activated.
East Carrier must be destroyed.

Day 4:
NW Stealth 3E.
SW Stealth 1N 3E.
SE Stealth 6N.
Drop Stealth in SE.
(For 300: BCop 1N 2E.)

Enemy Day 4:
(For 300: BCops must attack Bship from W & S.)

Top Day 4:
Grimm must win.

Day 5:
SCOP.
(For 300: Destroy BCops w/ Cruiser & BCop, and Rockets w/ BCop.)
Stealths destroy Minicannons.

Some other methods may be faster:
1) Use a Tag instead of SCOP on Day 5.
Pros: Don't need to worry about the SE Stealths.
Cons: Tag takes more time than SCOP.
2) Use 2 BCops to destroy a Minicannon.
Pros: 1 less Stealth required, can skip Colin's dialogue, which is triggered when a Stealth's fuel reaches 30.
Cons: Requires a tower to be captured, takes 2 hits to destroy.
3) Use Grimm for the bottom front.
Pros: Rockets+Bship can destroy pipe seam on Day 2 instead of Bomber.
Cons: SCOP boosts everything (unlike Max, who only boosts directs), so the sparkly animation will take more time to finish.
Last edited by DxDyDzD on Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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