Normal Campaign TAS WIP

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:32 pm

are you sure Grimm is leveled up enough? I don't remember seeing him in your strategies often

1) TAG is certainly slower if all it saves are 2 unit movements
2) I think Stealth is faster
3) can Max win on D4 top front?

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:17 pm

If you solo a few missions with Grimm he gets ~600 EXP per mission. Two missions and he's levelled up.
It's not compulsory to use skills, but a lot of luck is needed otherwise.
correction: to blow up the Minicannons, a total of 14HP worth of Fighter attacks is needed.
So on Top Day 2, the north Fighters must have a total of 14HP or more (5+9, 6+8 or 6+9).
1) Using a Tag Power also skips the "pipe seam exploding" animations. Max 2HKOs the pipe seam with a Stealth.
side note: Grimm with a tower deals 98% to the pipe seam with a Stealth. Bleh.
2) OK then.
3) I think so, Translucent Air used bland COs for the top front.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:09 pm

Yes, I can't speak for DxDyDzD's specific strategy, but I have had the AI complete on Day 4 rather reliably with COs with 100% (or better) aerial attack ability (i.e. not Colin or Jess). To solve the 98% damage problem with Grimm's stealth, use the "Bruiser"/"Tackle" Rank 1-skill/force with Grimm instead.

-Translucent Air

P.S. I was actually reading DxDyDzD's last comment wondering how which COs I'd used had been discovered! I did believe I had posted a rather comprehensive list of scores I made for Campaign, but I couldn't find it using this site/board's search function, so I assumed I didn't and was coy with peripheral information, e.g. my comment regarding "Verdant Hills" in 4 days about which COs are possible. I ended up finding my list using Google, within the "Max HC Scores" topic. (I presume the board's search failed to return it as the information was in a "code" block.)

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:22 pm

Well, another disadvantage of using Grimm to try to break the seam with the Stealth is that you need to cap the tower. 135% attack isn't going to cut it.
Since the APC is adjacent to the capping Inf, you need to move it away or let it resupply the Inf.

I tried M19: Into the Woods. My strat is a HQ capture in 6 days. OS (Grimm w/Luck, Sensei) captures the HQ using a Tag on the last day, and BM (Sasha, Colin) sends out the AA, Tank, Rockets and Missiles to destroy the BCops, and COP once to delay BH's Tag Power. On Day 4 onwards, BM doesn't need to do anything. The Luck skill on Grimm allows a Tank to OHKO an Art on Plains.

So I guess Grimm does need the Luck skill. He can be used on M13: Frozen Fortress as OS, M15: Verdant Hills as BM, then solo M16: Snow Hunters.
This gives him at least 1000 EXP in time for M18: Omens and Signs.

BTW: Translucent Air, does your 5-day Rout allow BH to Tag?

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:03 am

Supplying of any loaded infantry would only happen on the day following the drop date. If the infantry remains fully supplied afterward (e.g. it hasn't moved from its position since being dropped), it does not get supplied again.

As for whether my strategy allows an enemy Tag Power or not, that's not something that usually warrants a note in my book. I tend to only keep track of variable actions that would prevent reliable reproductions (and having inconsistent execution of something as major as a Tag Power would be a big red flag). As my strategy is likely over two years old, I would need to replay the mission to tell you that information, and I wouldn't be able to get around to that until after Christmas. You'd be better off continuing on your own, unless you can afford the wait.

-Translucent Air

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Any supplying at all is bad, regardless of whether it's on only one day or two.
You don't load the Inf, there's an APC right next to the tower when you begin. Moving it away or letting it resupply takes time.
Ah, OK. I'll continue on my own.

M19 Into the Woods 6/300
OS: Grimm w/Luck, Sensei. BM: Sasha, Colin.
The Luck skill is needed to OHKO enemy Arts on Plains with the Tank.

OS Day 1:
N Tank, N Md 5E.
AA, Neo 1N 5E.
Load Inf, APC 2N 3E.

BM Day 1:
AA, Tank, Road Rockets as far E as possible.
Missiles 1N 3E.

OS Day 2:
(Tank 1N 4E, if ambushed, reload. Otherwise, cancel the movement.)
APC 1N 5E, drop E.
Md 1N 2E, destroy Recon.
Tank 2N 3E, destroy Art.
AA 5E, destroy Mech.
Neo 1N 5E.

BM Day 2:
AA 1S 1E.
Tank 2N.
Rockets 1N.
Missiles 1E.

BH Day 2:
Oozium must be on forest, not road.

OS Day 3:
Md 5E, destroy Missiles.
Tank 2E, destroy Art.
Neo 1N 5E, destroy Rockets.
Load Inf, APC 2E.
Switch to Sensei.

BM Day 3:
Missiles & AA destroy BCops, Rockets destroy Tank.
COP.

BH Day 3:
Your Tank should have 2HP.

OS Day 4:
Neo 1N 3E.
APC 7E.
Md destroy Mech.
Mega destroy Recon.

BM Day 4:
Rockets destroy Tank.

BH Day 4:
AA must attack Tank, instead of Recon.

OS Day 5:
(Note: There's a Mech 1E of the APC's current position.)
APC 1N 5E, drop E. (Oozium musn't be in the way.)
Neo 3E 1S.

BM Day 5:
End.

OS Day 6:
Md attack Oozium.
(Optional: move units onto cities to prevent Mech spawns during Sensei's SCOP)
Tag, cap the HQ.

M20 impressions:
Once you win, there'll be an unskippable "cutscene" where all Ooziums left on the field blow up. This makes routing seem like the better choice but I still think HQ Capture is faster since 1) Koal won't get to (S)COP, 2) Luck abuse is unnecessary and 3) Your units don't have to move around as much.
For HQ Capture, I won in 7 days by sending the Neo and loaded TCop towards the HQ. Nothing particularly difficult.
This is the third time which Grimm needs skills. A no-skill Grimm Neotank does 97% to the pipe seam. With the +5% direct attack skill, he can OHKO the seam.
If BM yields, for full Tech, OS musn't lose any units. This pretty much means that OS has to avoid the Ooziums as killing one gives Koal 3 stars, enough for a COP. Killing 2 fully charges his meter and he'll SCOP. Partial damage results in a unit getting eaten and imperfect Tech, unless the attack came from the Rockets.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:56 pm

looking good DxDyDzD :)

a note: I haven't tested a lot, but the exact example of supply on dropped full HP Inf is only a 25 frames waste, not a lot, moving a unit 1 or 2 squares is about 12 frames

I haven't been TASing anything because I'm focusing on understanding the RNG, if possible I'll try to TAS Lake Fever in 5" when I fully understand it and get working scripts to do the maths for me

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:06 pm

M20 Muck Amok 7/300
Grimm w/Bruiser, Sensei.
BM yields immediately on Day 1.

Day 1:
Load E Inf onto TCop, TCop 5E.
Neo 6N.

Enemy Day 1:
Ooziums 1S 2W and 2S 1W of TCop must move 1E.

Day 2:
TCop 3N.
Neo 1N 1E.

Enemy Day 2:
Oozium 4N of Md. Tank must move 1E.

Day 3:
TCop 5N 1E.
Neo moves 5-6 spaces NE.

Day 4:
Neo destroy pipe seam.

Day 5:
Neo destroy pipe seam.
TCop 2N 3E, drop E.
Rockets attack Oozium.

Day 6:
Cap HQ.
Neo destroy Missiles.
Rockets attack Oozium, then Mech destroy Oozium.

Day 7:
Finish HQ cap.

Interesting stuff
1) The Neo needs to move 19 spaces to reach the first pipe seam. On the first 2 days it moves 6 and 2 spaces to lure the enemy Oozium just north of your units east. It then has 11 spaces to move, so you can move 5-6 or 6-5.
2) The ideal TCop drop position is: TCop on east seam, drop E. Less ideal ones are:
a) Tcop on city 1S 1W of HQ: TCop has to move aside for Neo to KO missiles.
b) TCop 1S of HQ: Gets eaten by Oozium.
c) anywhere further: Mech has to move more.
So the TCop has to move 19 spaces in 5 days. In the guide, it moves on 4 days and stays put for 1. I think it's faster than having to move on all 5 days.
3) Destroying an Oozium and Missiles charges Koal's meter enough that he tries to save up for a SCOP.
4) Ooziums seem to move towards the nearest unit. I'm not sure how it handles units at the same distance, or how it decides whether to move vertically or horizontally if the target is not directly N/S/E/W.

M21 2 day strat: Jess/Whoever, Grimm with Bruiser/Whoever
OS destroys SW (Mega) Crystal on D1, and NW (Neo) and S (Mega) Crystals on D2 after COP. BM destroys SE (Rockets+BCop) Crystal on Day 1, and central (Stealth) and NE (Bomber) Crystals on D2 after capping Tower.
Jess is real good, her COP provides +movement (for the Neo to reach its Crystal) and resupplies the Mega as well. :D
Grimm need skills again...this time he has to OHKO a structure with his Stealth. Alternatively you could 2HKO it with an extra attack from the BCop but I think that's slower because of the "structure damaged" animation.
Right now I just need to minimize the number of enemy units blocking the way to the NW Crystal.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:55 pm

is Sensei really needed for M20? if it's just to make luck outcomes easier, it might be better to first have a test without him in the TAS, changing CO I believe wastes a good amount of frames, luck manipulation should be easier

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Yeah, I used him for extra luck. I managed to KO an Oozium with two Rocket attacks and one Mech attack. I don't think it's possible without Sensei in the back.
If you don't use Sensei then you can KO it with one attack each from Rockets, Md Tank and Mech, but the Md Tank has to move one space, which takes longer than firing the Rockets twice. On the other hand much less luck abuse is needed since the Md. Tank attack deals much more damage than the Rockets.
If you don't care about score then you don't need to move anything except the Neo, Mech and TCop, and Grimm can solo it.
Sensei is also used for the previous mission (as OS) so you don't need to change COs. The M20 strat uses Grimm all the way without switching to Sensei.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:56 pm

ok, if Sensei is used in the mission before that's great, I didn't notice

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:15 pm

M21 Healing Touch 2/300 +120 for 6 Crystals
OS: Jess/Whoever BM: Grimm w/Bruiser, Slam Guard/Whoever
It is possible to win without Slam Guard but requires much more luck.

OS Day 1:
Rockets destroy Recon.
Recon 2N, destroy Inf.
Mega 3N, destroy Crystal.
Neo 4N 2E.
Md. 3N, destroy Art.
AA 3E, destroy Fighter.
Tank 4N 2E, destroy APC.

BM Day 1:
AA 3S, destroy AA.
E Mech 2N, cap tower.
W Mech 1N 1W, destroy APC.
BCop 3N, destroy BCop.
Rockets 2N.
Bomber 4N 2W, destroy Crystal.
Fighter 3N.
Stealth 2N 1W, destroy Recon.

BH Day 1:
Fighter must suicide on BM's Fighter.
Ideally, BH will place as few units obstructing these paths as possible: Neo's path to NW Crystal, Stealth's path to central Crystal, Bomber's path to NE Crystal. On my best run, there were only 2 units: one Tank blocking the Neo and one BCop blocking the Bomber.

OS Day 2:
Md. 1N 1E, destroy Tank.
COP. (If you're lucky the meter should be charged by now, otherwise, shoot some stuff to charge it.)
Neo destroy NW Crystal.
Mega destroy S Crystal.

BM Day 2:
Cap tower.
Stealth destroy central Crystal.
Fighter 4N, destroy BCop OR BCop 3N 2W, destroy AA.
Bomber destroy NE Crystal.

Haven't tested this yet, but I think that OS may be able to charge more easily if BM reverses the Mech and BCop targets (BCop destroys APC, Mech destroys BCop). The Recon should then suicide on OS's Mega. Power isn't affected BM destroys 5 units (AA, APC, BCop, Recon and Fighter suicide).
edit: The Recon doesn't suicide on the Mega, but runs away instead.

Crystal Calamity next...NOOOOO
Last edited by DxDyDzD on Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:04 pm

Holy cow, this one took quite some time. I'm just glad that I have a walkthrough for it.
Note that sometimes this guide will fail because the enemy Art covers the city 1S of the Obelisk on Day 5. It happened to me once.

M22 Crystal Calamity 6/300 +35 for Obelisk and Pipe seam
OS: Colin/Sasha w/Luck
BM: Sensei/Whoever
GE: Anyone except Grimm/Max
In addition to the builds mentioned in the strat, at least 1 more unit must be built for full Tech. This can be done by any army. The simplest way to do this is to build an Inf on OS' Day 6.

Day 1:
OS:
Tank 3N.
Art, Md 1N 3W.
Build 2 Infs & TCop.
BM:
N Inf 2W.
Load Inf, APC 5S 2E.
GE:
AA 6S.
Build Inf.

Day 2:
OS:
Art 1N 1W.
Md 1N.
S Inf 1N 1W, cap.
Load Inf, TCop 6W.
Build 2 Infs.
Switch to Sasha.
BM:
Inf 3S.
Build Lander.
APC 7S, drop E.
GE:
Inf 3S.
Build Inf.
AA 4S, destroy W BCop.

BH:
A Recon must be located in OS's chokepoint.
BM's Inf must be alive.

Day 3:
OS:
Art attack Mega (10-6), Md attack Mega (9-1).
Tank 2W.
Finish cap.
TCop 2N 3W, drop W.
Infs 3W.
Switch to Colin.
BM:
S Inf 1S 1E, fire silo.
Load Inf, Lander 2N 4E, drop N.
GE:
Missiles destroy BCop.
Infs 3S.
AA 3S 3W.

BH:
OS's TCop should have 6HP.
Mega musn't suicide.

Day 4:
OS:
Art & Md attack pipe seam.
Wmost Inf 3S.
City Inf 2W, fire silo.
Smost Inf 2W.
Last Inf 1N 2W.
Build Bomber.
Switch to Sasha.
BM:
S Inf 1S 1W.
N Inf fire silo.
GE:
AA 1W.
Infs 3S, S Inf fire silo.

BH:
GE's Missiles should have 8HP.
Mega musn't suicide.

Day 5:
OS:
Fire the last two silos.
TCop 2S 1E.
Forest Inf 1N 2W.
Art 2W.
Md break seam.
Tank 4N 1W.
Bomber 4W.
BM:
S Inf 1S 1W, fire silo.
GE:
Infs fire silos.
AA 6W.

BH:
Mega goes 3W.
GE's Missiles must survive.

Day 6:
OS:
COP.
Destroy Mega w/Art, Recon w/Md, Inf w/Tank.
Bomber destroy Obelisk.

edit: Actually Colin can do the first 4 days for OS if he has the Luck skill, it just takes much more luck (how ironic) for the attacks on the Mega to go as planned.
second edit: Sasha won't have any problems for Power, if Colin rolls max luck twice then Sasha can OHKO the Mega with no luck at all.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:46 pm

M23 Dark Ambition 5/300 +5 for Pipe Seam
OS: Anyone BM: Eagle/Sami GE: Jess/Jake or Javier

Day 1:
OS:
Inf 3W.
BM:
Arts 2S 3E.
Rockets 2E.
BCop, Bomber far E.
Load Stealth, Carrier 5E, drop S.
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 5E.

Day 2:
OS:
Inf 1N 2W.
BM:
Arts 1S 4E.
Rockets 5E.
BCop 5S 1E.
Bomber 5S 2E.
Steallth 5S, hide.
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 3E.

Day 3:
OS:
Inf fire silo, centred on south Md.
E APC 2S.
BM:
E Art 4S 1E, W Art 2S 3E.
Rockets 1S 2E.
Bomber break north seam.
Stealth 4E, attack AA (10-2).
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 4N.

BH:
Bcop musn't block north seam.

Day 4:
OS:
Damaged APC 2N.
Fire silo, centred 1N 1W of enemy Mega.
BM:
N Art destroy Tank.
S Art destroy 9HP AA.
Stealth 3E, destroy Md.
Bomber 6E, destroy AA.
BCop 1S 3E, destroy BCop.
GE:
Mega 2E, destroy AA.
Bship destroy Art.

BH:
Md must suicide on Mega.
BCop and 9HP Recon must attack BCop.

Day 5:
OS:
Mech 1N, destroy Recon.
BM:
Rockets destroy Recon.
Stealth 1S, destroy BCop.
Bomber 1S, destroy Md.
Arts destroy Mega. (It's possible, just needs some luck.)
COP.
Stealth destroy Art.
Bomber destroy Neo.
Either Art attack APC.
GE:
Mega destroy adjacent APC.
Bship destroy APC.

This is the best strat I have so far. GE only uses its Mega and Bship.
Three problems:
1) Stealth running out of fuel. I load it onto the Carrier so that the Carrier's fuel is used up instead. It may be faster to just supply it with the APc.
2) Enemies blocking the north seam. It seems that if you don't use the Rockets, either a BCop or APC will block the north seam.
3) Repair time. On Day 4, BH uses 14000G for repairs. That takes a very long time, almost 5 seconds by my count.
I'll try firing 2 silos on 1 day so that BH has no time to repair.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:27 pm

Eagle requires +5 Atk to break the pipe seam? I don't think we've leveled him have we?

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:21 pm

Eagle's Bomber vs Pipe seam is 114%, he has an attack boost for air units.
The +5 refers to bonus points.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:28 pm

ok, that was confusing

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:19 pm

Lol, the bonus points are right next to the mission score.
IIRC the bonuses are:
5 for Pipe seam
10 for Minicannon
20 for Crystal
30 for Obelisk
40 for Oozium
not sure about large cannons, but there's only one map where it appears (Crystal Calamity) and I definitely don't need to destroy it.

New M23 strat, with BH using less time to repair (they use only 4000G compared to the previous strat's 14000G.)
Also, BM ends on Day 5 instead of GE.
M23 Dark Ambition 5/300 +5 for Pipe Seam
OS: Anyone BM: Eagle/Sami GE: Jess/Jake or Javier

Day 1:
OS:
Inf 3W.
Load Mech onto W APC, APC 4N 2W.
BM:
Arts 2S 3E.
Rockets 2E.
BCop, Bomber far E.
Load Stealth, Carrier 5E, drop S.
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 5E.

Day 2:
OS:
Inf 1N 2W.
APC 6W, drop S.
BM:
Arts 1S 4E.
Rockets 5E.
All air units 5S, hide Stealth.
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 3E.

Day 3:
OS:
Inf 3W, fire silo, centred on S AA.
E APC 2S.
BM:
E Art 4S 1E.
W Art 2S 3E
Rockets 1S 2E.
Bomber break N seam.
Stealth 4E, attack AA (10-2).
GE:
Mega 2N 2E.
Bship 4N.

BH:
Mega must block N seam.

Day 4:
OS:
Fire both silos, centred on N BCop.
BM:
Rockets destroy Mega.
Stealth 1E, destroy Md.
BCop 5E, destroy Neo.
Bomber 5E, destroy AA.
N Art destroy Tank.
S Art destroy 9HP AA.
GE:
Mega 2E, destroy AA.
Bship destroy Art.

BH:
Mega must counter BCop to 3HP (7HP after joining).

Day 5:
OS:
Do nothing, just end.
BM:
Rockets destroy Recon.
BCop 2S, destroy Art.
Bomber 2S, destroy Md.
Stealth 1S, destroy Md.
S Art destroy E APC.
N Art attack W APC.
COP.
Bomber & BCop destroy Recon.
Either Art destroy APC.
Stealth destroy BCop.

I tried M24 Pincer Strike, it's not as hard as I thought, even without skills. The trick seems to be keeping the Mechs alive so that Sami can use them for Power, while sacrificing almost everything else to charge a Tag.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:43 pm

M24 Pincer Strike 3/300
OS: Anyone BM: Sami/Lash
OS doesn't do anything at all.

Day 1:
APC, E Tank, E Md far E.
AA, Neo far S.
W Md, Rockets 1S.
W Tank, Mechs 2S.

Enemy Day 1:
Rockets musn't attack AA, both enemy AAs must attack AA. Yours should have 2HP or more after both attacks.
Arts musn't move.

Day 2:
APC 4E, drop E.
W Mech 2S, destroy AA.
AA suicide on AA.
E Mech 1E, destroy AA.
W Tank 3E, attack Rockets.
Neo 2E.
Rockets 1S 1E.
Switch to Lash.

Day 3:
W Mech 2E, destroy Rockets.
Tag.
Mech & Tank 2E, destroy Rockets.
Inf 3E.
Switch to Sami.
Mechs 1E, destroy Arts.
Inf cap HQ.

For M25 Ring of Fire, TA has a 7 day strat with Eagle/Sensei.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:34 pm

M25 Ring of Fire is too difficult for me. There's just too many units to keep track of. Plus, it's a two front mission, dragging things out even longer than they should be. Translucent Air, please help. :(
Alternatively, if there's a code to let me play just one front, it should be more manageable. I can't simply recreate the map on a DS as there's the volcano, which affects both sides' movements.
I don't have high hopes for the final mission either, as it's also two fronted AND the top screen is left to the AI.

M26 Surrounded 3/300
OS: Sami/Whoever BM: Anyone except Grimm

OS Day 1:
Load W Inf onto APC, APC 2N 3W.
Build APC in W base, Inf in E base.
Recon 3W.
Neo 2S 3E.
Md 1S 4E.
Inf 1S.
Tank 3S 1E, attack AA.

BM Day 1:
Load Inf, APC 3S 3W, drop W.

Enemy Day 1:
Tank must destroy BM's Rockets from S.
BCops must destroy APC.

OS Day 2:
Load Inf, base APC 2N 4W, drop N.
Road APC 5N, drop E.
Recon 5W.
Md 1S 1E, destroy AA.
Art 3E.

BM Day 2:
Cap SW tower.
Destroy BCops w/ AAs, Tank w/ Art+BCop.
(If you ram some units at the opponent, e.g. AA vs Tank, you can charge up their meter enough that they don't switch.)

Enemy Day 2:
In the SE corner, OS' Tank must be at 1HP, Md at 3, Art at 1.

OS Day 3:
Mech attack Tank.
SCOP.
Cap NW, NE, SE towers.

BM Day 3:
Finish capping SW tower.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:30 am

Was the 6-day walkthrough for the secondary front of Ring of Fire not useful? That was apparently enough for me to be able redo the score three months after initially accomplishing it. Note, that despite me being able to complete without using a Tag Power on Day 7, you may still need to win the secondary in order to actually charge Lightning Strike for Eagle.

Unfortunately, Ring of Fire and Means to an End are the two missions for which I never got around to writing complete walkthroughs - for reasons that you've already highlighted. I may be able to some provide further assistance for Ring of Fire, but I can't guarantee anything as my free time is rather restricted. For Means to an End, it's pretty much left to how well the AI plays, so I doubt I'd be much help other than digging up old posts. (Although, one might be able to document the necessary allied AI actions for each day, as fcastro was able to do in a specific case.)

-Translucent Air

fcastro

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by fcastro » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:24 am

Mmm I dont think my D2D would be very useful, it was only an attempt to get as close as possible from 7-days victory (6 days for north front AI victory), I posted it for the case of someone would find another trick or get a better AI, but as STL pointed out u can get 8 days victory without relying on rare AI move as I did.

Btw, I had used your walkthrough for getting Rings of Fire 7 and it worked fine. But what is the best possible score if u only use Grit (or Eagle) and ignore top front? I wanted to try it after getting Rings HC 6 with Grit, but then I convinced myself that it couldnt be better than 7 anyway. :)

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:00 pm

Yeah, I read the 6-day top front walkthrough and it was helpful. For the TAS I think using skills (Luck and Tower Power) can remove the need for COP and SCOP.
For the bottom front it's just difficult to decide what to do, and it doesn't help that my turns are lengthened by the top front. For example, should I use the indirects to attack the inner units or outer units first? Should the BCops move towards the centre or towards the neutral airport to destroy some Tanks? Should that neutral airport be captured (If it doesn't, I can send the loaded APC to the second front instead)? Which units should I target with the silos? If you can recall the answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
For M28, I doubt fcastro's guide will help a lot since he used the capture+2 skill, which is not available until you complete HC.
I did try using Grit on M25 because he can take out the base-capturing Infantry with his Rockets. Additionally, by using him and only him on OS for the previous two missions, he will reach level 1 and have access to the Luck skill, which is useful for OHKOing Black Boats.

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:30 pm

Translucent Air, in [url=http://forums.warsworldnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9777]Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)[/url], wrote:
For the primary front, simply attack the most threatening units first.

... I actually keep the two initial battle copters to harass the center and make their way to secure the northeastern base the enemy captures.

Capturing the northwestern base with the nearest infantry and the airport using a mech and APC from the volcanic center will no doubt give you a significant advantage, especially if using someone with a strong air force.

Use the northern missile silo to stall the enemy's capture of the base as well.
Elaborating, it appears that I may have allowed the enemy to finish capturing the northernmost base, but likely halted any (significant) production with the battle copters, which "harass the center" on their way. You'll generally want to use missile silos (and focus attacks) against groups of units that are difficult to destroy (which are usually "the most threatening"), and I've apparently already stated how to use one of them.

Finally, there should have been no question as to whether the neutral airport should be captured: use of direct-combat aerial units gives you unfettered ability to mop up the center. By not the capturing airport, you're severely hampering Eagle's strengths (and I apparently used the APC "from the volcanic center" that you cannot send to the secondary front to assist its capture). For example, assume you have two bombers deployed by Day 7: with simply Eagle's own abilities and powers, you're virtually guaranteed 4 one-hit kills at the center, increasingly so with captured com towers. Plus, his indirects can move and shoot, pretty much granting an equivalence (or better) to Grit's extended range (also, alternatively using an indirect to attack the same unit twice grants attack equal to or better than Grit's as well). Consequently, you can likely destroy nearly half of the units in the center on the 7th and final day!

As for comments on Means to an End, I cited fcastro's post as a way to develop a consistent optimal strategy and did not mean to imply that it was directly applicable to a vanilla tool-assisted speedrun.

-Translucent Air

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DxDyDzD
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Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:33 pm

M27 For the Future! 4/300 +45 for 1 each of: pipe seam, Minicannon, Obelisk
OS: Grimm w/ Bruiser BM: Anyone GE: Eagle w/Luck/Sami
BM does nothing at all.

OS Day 1:
Neo 5N.

GE Day 1:
Build BCop.
Fighter 8N 1E.
All air units far N, BCop attack Minicannon.

Enemy Day 1:
Black Boat must be in range of Bomber.

OS Day 2:
Neo 1N 3E, destroy seam.
Mega 2N 2E.

GE Day 2:
Airport BCop 6N.
BCop attack seam.
If your Fighter is at 2HP: Stealth 4N, attack Fighter (8-2 or better). Fighter destroy Fighter.
If your Fighter is at 3HP: Fighter attack Fighter. Stealth 4N, destroy Fighter.
Bomber destroy Black Boat.
COP.
Bomber far N, if it can't move any further N, continue by moving W.
Stealth 1S 1W, destroy Minicannon.
Sea BCop 5N 1W.

Enemy Day 2:
BCop must move towards GE.
2 units must attack OS' Mega, the Neo must have 5HP.

OS Day 3:
Destroy unit 1W of Neo, if any.

GE Day 3:
Bomber destroy Mech from E.
E BCop destroy BCop.
Stealth destroy Neo.
W BCop destroy the damaged unit that attacked the Mega.

OS Day 4:
Do nothing, just end.

GE Day 4:
Bomber destroy Obelisk.

Although BM can be anyone, using Grit and moving the Bship north can stop the enemy Cruiser and Bship from moving around too much, as well as give you the opportunity to destroy a Crystal for 20 points.
If score doesn't matter then you only need to move the Stealth, Bomber and Fighter. OS doesn't need to do anything.

After this I'll backtrack to M25 Ring of Fire. Here's hoping I'll be able to get the 7 day win.

Guest

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:10 am

what about 3 days?

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:50 am

lol, just move the Stealth, Fighter and Bomber. Losing a load of Fighter HP, and destroying the enemy Fighter & Black Boat will charge your COP on Day 2.
I forgot to mention that if you don't care about score, you win in 3 days.

Outside of TAS, if you're going for 3/300 (not sure if that's possible), it should be done by using Grimm w/Bruiser and Pathfinder, so that he can destroy both the pipe seam and the Minicannon, instead of him destroying the pipe seam and Eagle destroying the Minicannon. Pack Eagle with as much attack as you can (Bruiser, Brawler, Luck, Ranger, and Sami with Teamwork and Synergy). With some different movements I got the BCop to move towards GE on Day 1, so the units to be destroyed for Power on Day 2 would be:
(before COP) Bomber destroy Black Boat, Stealth destroy Fighter.
(after COP) BCop destroy Mech (not sure if the total boost is enough for an OHKO), Stealth+Fighter destroy BCop.

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:34 am

Sure is 3/300 done and it´s not actually hard. I don´t get what you mean with Grimm but only GE is needed for it. Eagle only needs attack boosts if you use a Day 3 COP.

that DxDyDzD

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by that DxDyDzD » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:34 pm

You're right, I got a 3/300 without luck abuse.
OS can be anyone as long as they have Pathfinder, and can OHKO the Minicannon with the Neo after GE shoots it with the BCop.
For GE I used Eagle w/ Bruiser, Brawler, Ranger and Luck, with Sami w/ Teamwork and Synergy. I think it was overkill, though.
OS' job is to destroy the Pipe seam with the Mega and the Minicannon with the Neo.
For GE, Day 1 is: BCop and Stealth 6N (BCop shoot Minicannon), Fighter 8N, Bomber 6N 1W.
Day 2 is: Fighter suicide on Fighter, Stealth destroy Fighter, Bomber destroy BBoat, BCop destroy Mech. Then COP, move Bomber N, and destroy Inf w/ BCop and Stealth. Thus you have 4 kils in 1 day, for full Power.
Day 3: Bomber destroy Obelisk.

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DxDyDzD
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Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Wow, I finished Ring of Fire 6/300, +40 for Oozium.
COs were Eagle, no skills/Javier, Luck and Tower Power.
For the bottom front, I found myself shooting at the inner units more often. The outer units moved all the way to the base/airport before getting shot down.
For the top front, Javier is better because his SCOP rips through Kanbei's units. When he finishes, he's a beast on the bottom front as well, with 2 Com towers. I found a way to prevent both APCs from dropping their Infs, so fewer unit movements are needed.
D2Ds to come soon.

fcastro

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by fcastro » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:48 am

Wow congratulations!

Guest

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:01 am

patiently awaiting d2d

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:48 am

awesome job with that!

would Javier be leveled enough for those skills though? how do you get Tower Power?

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samurai goroh
Location: Red Canyon hideout

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by samurai goroh » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:10 am


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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by DxDyDzD » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:06 pm

M25 Ring of Fire 6/300, +40 for 1 Oozium
Eagle/Javier w/Luck and Tower Power
Always abuse luck for max damage & min counter.
edit: Removed most of the inner APC supplying, I found out that it wasn't necessary except for the Rockets.

Bottom front

Code: Select all

Day 1:
Send the 3 AAs, then the Rockets, then the Missiles.
BCops 3N 3E.
Outer N Mech 2N.
Load S Inf, APC 1S 4E.
One Mech adjacent to BCop cap tower, the other load and APC 1S 5E.
Inner SSW Mech 1N 1W.
Inner WSW Mech 1E.
Both inner N Mechs 2N.
S Art 1N 2E.
E Art 3N 1W.
NW Art 2E.
W Rockets attack Md.
E Rockets 1N 1W.

Day 2:
Outer N Mech 2N.
Outer APC 1S 3E.
Finish tower cap.
N BCop 3N 2E, attack Tank.
S Forest Mech 2N, destroy Tank.
S BCop 3N 3E, attack Md.
Mtn. Mech 2N, destroy Md.
W Rockets attack BBoat.
NW Mech fire silo, centred 2W of base-capping Inf.
NW and SE Art & Rockets attack Neo.
NE Mech 1N 1W, cap tower.
NE Art attack AA.
Inner APC 5E, drop N.
COP.
Outer APC 5E, drop N.
Rockets, BCops 1N 2E, destroy Arts.
NW, SE Arts destroy Neo.
NE Art attack Tank.
Inner APC 3N 1E.

Day 3:
Outer N Mech 2N.
Inf cap airport.
NE Mech finish tower cap.
Damaged Mech and Mtn. Mech 1W.
W Rockets 1E.
NW Mech 2W.
NW Rockets destroy Neo.
SE Mech fire silo, centred 1S of 6HP Tank.
W BCop 1N, destroy BBoat.
E BCop 3N 3E, attack Md (10-4).
S Art 2W.
E Rockets destroy BBoat.
NE Art destroy Art.

Day 4:
Outer N Mech 2N, wait.
Finish airport cap.
Outer APC 1N 1E.
W Rockets attack Md.
NW Art destroy Art.
NW Rockets destroy Art.
NE Art destroy Inf.
NE Mech 2W, attack Md.
E BCop 3N 1E, destroy Md.
SE Rockets destroy Recon.
SE Mech 1S 1E.
S Art attack BBoat.
W BCop 6N.
COP.
SW Mechs destroy Md.
W Rockets 2N 1W.
NW Rockets attack Md.
NW Art 3N 2E.
Both BCops 1N 5E.
NE Art destroy Tank.
E Rockets 1N 1E.
S Art destroy BBoat.

Day 5:
W Rockets destroy Md.
Outer N Mech 2N, attack AA.
Airport Inf 1S 1E.
NW Mech 1W, destroy AA.
NW Rockets attack Neo.
N Art 1N 4E.
N BCop 1N 5E, destroy APC.
NE Art 1N 1W.
E Rockets attack Neo.
S BCop 4S 1E, destroy Neo.
S Art 4E.
SE Mech 1S.
Build Bomber.

Day 6:
Bomber 4N 3E, attack Mega.
E BCop destroy Inf.
E Rockets 2S.
SE Art attack Md.
Build BCop.
BCop attack Oozium.
NE Art attack Md.
N Art 1E.
NW Rockets destroy Recon.
Tag.
Airport BCop attack 10HP Tank.
SE Mech destroy that Tank.
SE Art destroy Md.
SE Rockets destroy Mega.
E BCop 6S.
Bomber 7N, destroy APC.
N BCop attack Oozium.
NE Art destroy Md.
Switch.
SE Rockets destroy Neo.
Destroy everything else SE.
Bomber 6N, destroy AA.
N BCop destroy Oozium.
NE Art destroy BBoat.
N Art destroy Inf.
NW Mech destroy Tank.
Top front

Code: Select all

Day 1:
Both Plains Mechs 1N 1E, cap towers.
City Mech 1N.
APC 2E.
HQ Missiles 3N.
NEmost AA 1S 1E.
AA 2N of HQ 4N.
Remaining AAs 4E.
BCop 1E of HQ 2N 2E.

Day 2:
Finish tower caps.
Load Mech, APC 4N 2W, drop N.
N AA 4N 1E.
N Missiles 1N 1E.
S BCop 2N 1E.
Smost AA 2N 1E.

Day 3:
N AA 1E, destroy N BCop.
N Mech cap tower.
Both Missiles destroy N Bcops.
N BCop 1N 5E, attack APC.
S BCop 3N 2E, destroy APC.
Rockets 1N 1E.
Emost AA destroy BCop.
Smost AA destroy BCop.
Wmost AA 2N 1E, destroy BCop.
Last AA 1N, destroy BCop.
S Mech 2E.

Day 4:
Finish tower cap.
Missiles, N AA destroy BCop.
Rockets and Emost AA attack APC.
Mech 2N, destroy APC.
Nmost AA 5N 1E.
Next Nmost AA 1N.
N BCop 3N 3E.
S BCop 3N.

Day 5:
SCOP.
N AA & adjacent BCop 4E, destroy Mechs.
BCop 5E, destroy Rockets. 
Mech, Rockets, AA destroy Neo.
To get Tower Power for Javier, use him on M21 as OS (with Jess), M22 as GE (solo), M23 as OS (solo), M24 as OS (solo or with someone else).
Then he'll get 420 + 670 + 610 + 300 = 2000 EXP (2300 if he soloed M24).

My goodness, I've already done walkthroughs for every NC map except the last one (and the first four ones, but those are easy).
ALAKTORN please please start working on this TAS. :wink:
Last edited by DxDyDzD on Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:13 pm

DxDyDzD wrote:ALAKTORN please please start working on this TAS. :wink:
I've started TASing MvsDK2… lol

Translucent Air

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by Translucent Air » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm

Congrats on the win, DxDyDzD, and on the 3-day, no-skill, Surrounded! win (I did notice you had beaten my time there).

ALAKTORN, I'm not sure if anyone has been aiding you with Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2, but, given that DxDyDzD spent nearly two months attempting to help you with a TAS for this game, I don't think DxDyDzD's request is unreasonable.

-Translucent Air

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ALAKTORN
Location: Italy

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:55 am

Translucent Air wrote:ALAKTORN, I'm not sure if anyone has been aiding you with Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2, but, given that DxDyDzD spent nearly two months attempting to help you with a TAS for this game, I don't think DxDyDzD's request is unreasonable.

-Translucent Air
a guy has been bugging me about it so much he ended up becoming my TAS partner to see it TAS'd…

I still want to TAS this game though, DxDyDzD's effort isn't for nothing

STL

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by STL » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:42 am

Wow DxDyDzD i love you =O Ring of Fire NC in 6 days? I always avoided working on that map. I told fidel 6 days should be possible on HC and he got it. But i would never have believed that it´s possible on NC too.
Really much thanks =O

About the TAS seeing that Time Survival Basic took half an year to finish and Campaign is multiple times bigger, i wouldn´t expect it being finished b4 2013 =O

fcastro

Re: Normal Campaign TAS WIP

Post by fcastro » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:12 am

At least this has given new High Scores, is a Hard Campaign TAS planned for 2020? :)

Btw, after getting Spann 1.5 4/300, I stayed on that map and got Jugger 2.0 4/300 and Javier 2.5 5/300. I also have a strat for Flak 2.0 4/300 that would require a TAS, I think it can wait until 2022 (when I will have receive all the GameFAQs convos about AW2 ^^)

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