While we're waiting for a DS emulator, let's talk balance...

Talk about Advance Wars DS. Debate, laugh, cry, argue about everything to do with our favourite tag game here.
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legoman727
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While we're waiting for a DS emulator, let's talk balance...

Post by legoman727 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:12 am

Let's discuss how to balance the changes in AW: DS, to more of a AW2 style.

OS
- :andyds: Just add 1 more star to Hyper Upgrade, like in the balance patches. Why did Rachel get the healing upgrade anyways?

- :maxds: I'd prefer more of a beta 2 balence for him. The extra move was needed, and 125% day to day makes sense.

- :samids: Give back the transport boost.
- :nellds: See balance hack topic.
- :hachids: Same.
- :rachel: Covering Fire needs more stars. At least an 8 star SCOP, as we all know that it is pretty broken as is.

- :jake: A weakness on Forests, perhaps? And I just don't think it's right that he gets +1 indirect range, and +2 move for directs with his SCOP....

BM
- Olaf: I think he's fine as is.
- :gritds: Reduce firepower of indirects. See balance hack.
- :colinds: See balance hack. This time, 4 stars works.
- :sasha: Hmm.... I can't quite figure out a weakness for her.....

YC
- :kanbeids: Fine as is.
- :sonjads: Holy crap, pull out the balance patch. Counter Break would work just fine as the counter bonus and terrain loss, kill the daily vision bonus, she has enough advantages as is, maybe we should up her bad luck because of Hidden HP and terrain loss.... Enhanced Vision is fine as is...

- :senseids: Anyone else think his AW2 140 mechs were bad? He's ok right now, but maybe nerf the seas a little to make up for his ubercopters.

- :grimm: Day to day is ok, however, his powers need to be nerfed. 190 attack is just insane.

GE

- :eagleds: Take him back to AW2 sea units.....
- :drakeds: He didn't get much of a change, however his air should be 80/100, and give his navy the move bonus.....

- :jessds: AW2 stats, maybe improve soldiers though. She's broken on land right now.

- :javier: He's balanced right now, as the tower bonus is situational, and the only reason to be used without them is against Grit.....

BH
- :flakds: Balanced.
- :adderds: Once more, no change, balanced.
- :lashds: Xen, you know you love her nerf....
- :hawkeds: Wow, so far, Black Hole is the only balanced group. Weird.
- :jugger: Un-flak-clone him, please? I have an idea, which I'll post later.
- :koal: Un-adder-clone him. Ya.

- :kindle: Here's where BH balancing goes very wrong. I don't mind the property boost, cause they are pretty wide spread, but maybe she should have a nature nerf. Anyways, day-to-day, 140% attack on cities is a scary thing, especially since it applies to her air units as well.
Her COP needs to be nerfed, maybe to 2 damage, and reduce the 170% on cities..
SCOP isn't that bad, but 230% on cities. O_O *hides*

- :vonbolt: Von Boly isn't that bad, in fact, his SCOP could use 1 or two less stars.

Yep, what are your thoughts on balancing the COs, *glares at Kindle*
Last edited by legoman727 on Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Belgdor » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:17 am

:vonbolt: give him an 8 Star SCOP and the terrain cost=1 bonus and he should be fine.
:sonjads: just remove the vision bonuses completely
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Post by GaroNinja » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:16 am

It's really hard to do something like this so soon after the game's release, but here goes.

:jake: - Fine.

:rachel: - Up covering fire a star or so. However, I've noticed that the missiles tend to spread, making it not that much better than a 2 mass damage power.

:andyds: - Probably fine. Great SCOP, but nothing day to day.

:maxds: - Up the day to day firepower to 25%, I'd say.

:samids: - Give back the transport movement boost.

:nellds: - +15% luck is fine day to day, but make the COP and SCOP 40% and 65% or something like that.

:hachids: - 95% costs day to day should work out, and maybe 75% during powers.

:olafds: - I'd say he's fine.

:gritds: - 110/100 indirects day to day, maybe?

:colinds: - 90/90 units, maybe. Gold rush for 4 stars. Might be a little weak in AWDS, though...

:sasha: - Pretty much fine, but I suppose Market Crash could go up a star.

:kanbeids: - Fine.

:sonjads: - My brain hurts just looking at her. About fifty different ideas all compressed into 1 CO. Maybe drop the vision boost day to day and during counter break.

:senseids: - Fine, I think.

:grimm: - Okay.

:eagleds: - Add a star to Lightning Drive, at least.

:drakeds: - Navies are better now, so I think he's fine. Maybe a 10% boost in rain?

:jessds: - Bleh. AW2 stats are too weak for AWDS, but this is a little too far. 115/100 ground units, maybe?

:javier: - He really just shouldn't exist ._.

:flakds: - I'm thinking +25%/-10% day to day to give him an advantage, but that's a little bit to big of a spread. Maybe 20%/-5%?

:lashds: - Fine, I'd say...

:adderds: - I like the idea of reduced movement cost during his SCOP, because AWDS made him even more COP dependent...

:hawkeds: - Fine

:jugger: - +25%/-10% day to day? I think his SCOP should be 90%/-40%. If I'm paying more for a SCOP, it should be better FFS.

:koal: - Fine.

:kindle: - Maybe tone down the cities boost to 30%, and 60% (70% with the default boost added in) during the COP. Possibly lower the damage to 2 as well.

:vonbolt: - Give him a few decent tags, at least. Maybe 1 star and 110% with Kindle, and 105% with Jugger and Koal?

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TheChronoMaster
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Post by TheChronoMaster » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:24 am

Jake: Nerf the SCO power a bit. Otherwise, fine.
Rachel: GIVE. COVERING FIRE. MORE. STARS.
Sasha: Perhaps increasing Market Crash's cost by a star or two?
Jugger: Hmm...Un-Flak him somehow.
Koal: Un-Adder clone.
Kindle: MAKE HER WEAK ON ALL NON-URBAN TERRAIN.
Von Bolt: Tag with Kindle, a CO power, increased power for SCO Power, better day-to-day, and/or decreased SCO Power cost.
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The Rose's Thorn

Post by The Rose's Thorn » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:30 am

Sasha is tricky, because if you increase MC she becomes underpowered in 1v1, but balanced in 2v2, and depending on how much you increaes it by, balanced in tag battles.

I don't know how I'd change her.
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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:20 am

Hm... The general opinion is that Sonja should be the anti-terrain specialist... I wonder if that would give us enough room to make the "Clone" CO's or maybe Von Bolt the vision specialists... That is, keep Enhanced Vision as a vision power, but maybe give those other CO's the day-to-day vision boost. Eh, just an idea, probably is too dramatic for "balancing" though.
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Post by Laureola » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:25 pm

:sonja: -- Leave the vision bonus day to day, but no vision increases with powers, and if possible have her reduce terrain stars on 2 star tiles or higher only.

:rachel: Make it two missiles, then it seems balanced.

:kindle: Weaken Urban Blight to 2 damage on cities. A seven star SCOP with a 200% cap?

:vonbolt: A nine star power, with a five damage hit, and a few tags.

:adderds: Ignore terrain stars with the SCOP?
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Post by x0_000 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:58 am

Koal: CO Power: Increase attack on roads. Decrease enemy movement range?

SCO Power: Increase attack on roads. Increase movement by 1 or decrease enemy movement range?
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:13 pm

Eh, here's my opinions.

Andy: I'd up Hyper Repair by 1 HP. Right now there's really no incentive to use it. Hyper Upgrade I'd take one HP off but leave at six stars.

Max: Fine as is.

Sami: Fine, really. Just knock a star off that Eagle tag.

Nell: Day-to-day is fine. Knock her COP down to +40 and her SCOP down to +60. Obviously, her tag with Rachel is verboten.

Hachi: 95% day-to-day sounds good. Take Barter up to 60%, and make Merchant Union the normal 95% costs.

Rachel: Just take one damage off each missile. The missile guard solution works perfectly!
If that's not possible, bump the cost up by a star.

Jake: Fine.

Olaf: Take his snow bonus down to +10%.

Grit: Make all of his indirects 110/100 day-to-day, 140/110 COP, 160/110 SCOP. Ranges should remain as they are now.

Colin: 90/90 stats and a three-star Gold Rush ought to do it. GR is really much less useful seeing as it prevents tag breaks. I'd love to kill his Sasha tag, but that doesn't make any thematic sense, so we can just ban it.

Sasha: I'd suggest bumping Market Crash's required money-per-star up to 6000.

Kanbei: Fine, apart from the Sonja tag.

Sonja: I'd make her thusly:
Day-to-day: As is (+1 vision, +10/-10 bad luck, -1 enemy terrain star)
CO Power: +2 vision, +10/-10 bad luck, -2 enemy terrain stars, piercing vision
SCOP: +1 vision, +10/-10 bad luck, preemptive counterattacks, -2 enemy terrain stars.

As it is right now, Counter Break is far too good.

Sensei: Fine, really.

Grimm: Fine also. He just amplifies the way the game goes.

Eagle: Fine.

Drake: Just ban him from tagging or teaming up with Olaf.

Jess: Knock her vehicles down to 115/100 day-to-day, and keep the (S)COP stats the same. Right now she's just a bit too good most of the time, it's only all-ground that breaks her.

Javier: Halve all of his defence bonuses other than the inherent 10% from powers. So...
Day-to-day: +10% indirect defence, +5% defence per tower.
CO Power: +20% indirect defence, +10% defence per tower.
SCOP: +40% indirect defence, +15% defence per tower.

Flak: Fine.

Lash: Fine.

Adder: Possibly give him an extra 5% firepower for Sidewinder. Otherwise, fine.

Hawke: Fine.

Jugger: Fine in terms of balance. Perhaps un-bland him by making him like a mixture of Grimm and Sonja...
Day-to-day: 130% offence, luck of +10%/-20%
COP: 160% offence, luck of +10%/-35%
SCOP: 190% offence, luck of +10%/-50%

Koal: Balance is fine. Not sure how to un-clone him.

Kindle: Fine.

Von Bolt: Give him unstarred +5% tags with all of the Bolt Guard COs, and give him normal tags for the good COs who didn't appear in the campaign (Nell, Hachi, Andy, Olaf, Kanbei, Drake).

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GaroNinja
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Post by GaroNinja » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:57 pm

Yeah, I forgot about making him nuetral tagged with the COs not in the campaign. I found it a little odd that Koal can run amok in Omega Land, yet tag perfectly well with Jake, yet Andy has never even met Von Bolt, and they're at 90%.

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Xenesis
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Post by Xenesis » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:12 pm

Terragent wrote:Javier: Halve all of his defence bonuses other than the inherent 10% from powers. So...
Day-to-day: +10% indirect defence, +5% defence per tower.
CO Power: +20% indirect defence, +10% defence per tower.
SCOP: +40% indirect defence, +15% defence per tower.
Wouldn't that make him quite underpowered on maps without towers?

I'm fine with his CO Powers outside of Towers, but that's way too much. I do agree with the tower defence cut though.
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:15 pm

Yeah, we've gone over it on IM.
Actually, I'd be tempted to slightly boost the indirect defence stats and just remove his tower defence boost entirely. Even with the cut, he'd still be ridiculously uber with his SCOP and 2-3 towers.

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:02 am

Andy: I'd up Hyper Repair by 1 HP. Right now there's really no incentive to use it. Hyper Upgrade I'd take one HP off but leave at six stars.
I don't really want to give my opinion right now, but...

3 HP repair Hyper repair is still as good as a 2 HP repair. Hyper repair is not disregarded... It is excellent when making a major strike to rub off the counterattack and grow a new skin. The SCOP is meant to take a horrible situation and send you back in the game. Additionally, 5 Hp is about the amount you take in a first strike... And that's what it's meant to be for.

No, if you really want to give Hyper repair a boost, make it 2 stars instead of 3. It fits nicely in the overall cost and seriously... Since Andy is really basic day to day he deserves the slight boost.

Err, Hachi is okay with his 90% day to day... It's about similar to Sasha's... And what most get as a boost.

And take one star off Hawke's COP for a 4+4 result.

(Yes, I like ubering the COs I use most, mainly Andy and Hawke. Hachi I hate, his theme is horrible. I could only play with it off and then I'd also have to turn his graphics off due to his bargain smile.)

PUMP EM UP!!! Except Jess!!!

Yeah, I think that since Jess should keep her nice vehicle stats on land (and tone down the infantry to 90/100). However her powers will have far lower firepower to differentiate her from Max.

Seriously, she has no problem on land and hardly needs power to beat chokes. Her powers have crazy side effects (megatank), so power? She needs none!

120/100 vehicles day to day
90/100 for the rest

COP: 3 star
140/110 vehicles +1 movement
100/110 rest
Supply to all

SCOP: 6 stars
150/110 vehicles and +2 movement
100/110 rest
supply to all

(Basically, I changed her 20 and 40 boost to 10 and 20)

Movement is her prime asset and is what will beat people like Max who have no superior movement but only raw power.

Day to day, she'll be strong and it'll make up for her somewhat lackluster power in the firepower department. And it also fits her personality better. Jess has never been a 1 sided brute. She's subtle and uses very different tactics from Max. (And her indirects will still pwn especially if they speed through the map).

Yeah.
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Xenesis
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Post by Xenesis » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:28 am

Er, the problem with Jess is her day to day is overpowering. Even in AW2 when she had 90/100 infantry and 110/100 vehicles she was overpowered on an all land map.

Just now she's scary on an all land map. Her powers aren't the problem, it's the ability. However, given that AWDS COs are slightly strength > weakness, 115/100 Vehicles should suffice.
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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:07 am

Well let's compromise then...

115/100 vehicles
90/100 rest

COP: 3 stars:
140/110 and +1 movement for vehicles
100/110 rest
supply to all

SCOP: 6 stars
155/110 and +2 movement for vehicles
100/110 rest
supply to all

She gets 15 and 30 inherent boosts instead of 20/40 original and 10/20 my nerf. She's got slightly weaker day to day which means she won't be able to do the same stuff as Max unless she gets lucky with her directs.

But I insist on the power firepower nerf! I mean the movement and the supply is worth something.

Max gets +60 for his directs during his SCOP, and jess gets +30 for her vehicles and +2 movement as well as supplies to all. It's only fair.
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:50 am

No, that's just far too weak. And if you consider that Jess is a vehicle specialist, it makes sense that her direct vehicles get a boost that's at least comparable to Max's. Unlike Max, she doesn't also get uber air and sea units.

Jess should have 115/100 vehicles day-to-day, and otherwise be identical to her extant AWDS version.

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:11 am

Yes and considering that Max is a direct specialist it makes sense that his direct land units get a movement boost at least comparable to Jess. Unlike Jess he doesn't get uber fuel and ammo supplies. (And with the high number of units lacking fuel and ammo, the stealth and the snow... )

Unlike Max, Jess can still use her B Ship and Aircraft carrier better than Max. (And Max getting no movement means that indirect can definitely keep him away with a good meatshield)

We don't complain because he's got power. Jess shouldn't complain because her vehicles even with my nerfed firepower are the best on land. Compare with anyone's else land boosts. Movement and additional firepower regardless of where you are? On land the most important part of the battlefield?

Jess hardly needs so much direct firepower when she's got uber indirects blasting her way through and direct vehicles advancing always further.

Jess has never been good in air and sea battles alike Max in chokes. Her abilities on land are seriously sufficient. What did she get in AW2?

130 during her COP and 150 during her SCOP?

Hey, if she's getting even stronger on land, has so much more units which benefit from her powers and gets statistically stronger power than in AW2?

With more firepower is there any good reason to use Max in a land battle against Jess? And seriously even if it got in the sea and air, Jess's land movement would mean first strike on air units known for their weak defence and at sea she'd still hold her own against Max.

At most i'd consider adding some 5% to my nerfed SCOP. But right now she's disgusting powerful with a 10 boost to all her land units, and a 20 firepower boost to both COP and SCOP. Whereas Max gets a slight boost for his indirects which are next to useless anyway, LOSES his movement and gets the 20 firepower to both his COP and SCOP.

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Post by Guest » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:47 am

Nerfing Javier ruins the Anger Manegment Map. The kind where Javier gets as many towers as possible and 2 units, a megatank and an APC. Very fun when you are mad after that hard Campaign mission. :twisted:

Alternate 1: For an air and sea map, replace the megatank with a stealth and throw in a black boat.

Alternate 2: Grimm with Mistwalker.

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:44 am

... Perhaps one should think about making Javier's 10% defence tower boost into a 10% direct defence tower boost.

It could be interesting...
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Post by Mr Dev » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:56 am

What about any lame power name or description changes?

How about the mistake in Grimm's Description... See AWN

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Post by Shift Breaker » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:38 am

Why not change the name of counter break? Sure, it sounds good. But it doesn't give any counterattack bonuses, like in AW2.
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Post by TheChronoMaster » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:44 am

Shift Breaker wrote:Why not change the name of counter break? Sure, it sounds good. But it doesn't give any counterattack bonuses, like in AW2.
It makes your counters go first.
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Xenesis
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Post by Xenesis » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:19 pm

Hmm...well, I've actually had a think about this and this is what I think should be done. Omitted COs are Fine.

:os:
:rachel: - Covering Fire does 2 Per Missile.

:hachids: - Power and Super only reduce to 75% Cost.

:nell: - +40% and +70% on COP/SCOP.

:bm:
:colinds: - 90/90 Day to day stats. Gold Rush multiplies by 1.3.

:grit: - +20% and +40% on COP/SCOP, instead of the current.

:ge:
:jessds: 115/100 Vehicles should do it.

:javier: +5% defence from towers. Rest as is.

:yc:
:sonja: - Day to day is: ±10% Luck, -1 Terrain Star and Hidden HP.
COP: Vision to +2 Base, -2 Stars and Piercing.
SCOP: Vision to +1 Base, -3 Stars and First Strike counters.

:bh:
:jugger: While he's balanced, we could turn him into a different CO by giving him high attack with bad luck.

:vonbolt: Just knock his Super down to 8 Stars and give him a 1-star affinity with Kindle.
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Harken)The)Her0
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Post by Harken)The)Her0 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:05 am

:jessds: Jess should NOT be changed. Shes barely overpowered, if not even close to broken.

Remember, the word "BALANCED" has changed. It has taken to the new level of AWDS. You can't say Jess is broken until looking at it further.

Many COs have changed from the process of AW2 to AWDS. Eagle's and Drake's decrease of sea/air units have been raised up. They have 1 weakness. Jess on the other hand, has two. On a land map, her units many be powered up, but her powers arn't game breaking. Game breaking? You want Drake's SCOP or Sami's. Put it at 160/110 if you want.

Now the big problem WAS Jess's infants. 90/100 infantrys were pretty hard to use, but they were easily backed up by Jess's ub3r tanks and recons. Her infants are barely, if not even a weakness. Now that they are 100/100, she might not have that weakness, but thats barely a difference.

Remember, IF Jess was overpowered, It'd be her day-day. Nothing is wrong with her powers. Put it at 115/100. But 120 isn't bad...
Last edited by Harken)The)Her0 on Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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legoman727
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Post by legoman727 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:34 am

You know you just want an uber Jess, Harken......
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:40 pm

Must I state once more that Jess' 90/100 infantry were not really a weakness in AW2?

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:48 am

Jess was fine with her AW2 stats. Just add the 10 firepower boost for her powers which is a constant in awds...
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Harken)The)Her0
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Post by Harken)The)Her0 » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:27 am

Terragent wrote:Must I state once more that Jess' 90/100 infantry were not really a weakness in AW2?
See? I gotz teh proof!
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Harken)The)Her0
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Post by Harken)The)Her0 » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:28 am

legoman727 wrote:You know you just want an uber Jess, Harken......
No.
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pictish
Location: Scotland

Post by pictish » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:04 am

Yeah, I'm gonna say missile guard is the most sensible answer to Rachel.

Adding stars is very hazy and a grey area - each extra star adds a lot more later on in the game once powers have been used a bit.

However, using Missile guard makes it very easy to see the change, it's consistnat etc... and it doesn't screw up her bar and let her do something like double cop! =O

So yeah, missile guard ftw on Rachel. Only problem there would be if a map had multiple missile silos and so Rachel took an even bigger hit for due to her powers =( But oh well. Missile guard is by far the most practical solution.
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:15 am

Pictish, you can just solve the map problem by giving Missile Guard to Rachel, too. :P

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ubergeneral
Location: USA

Post by ubergeneral » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:25 pm

Some things were never meant to be touched and some were. I somewhat think that you nitpick at the co's way to much and change things that don't need it.

Andy: I personally think he's fine. But I guess the +1 star to SCOP won't end the world

Max: Give him 125/100 directs and give him +2 move in his SCOP

Sami: Give her +1 transport movement

Nell: I agree with the balence patch

Hatchi: Perhaps his units should cost 90% 75% 90%

Olaf: Fine

Grit: NO NO NO he keeps the day to day ranged boost. He shouldn't have to relay on his powers to not be underpowered. AW1 grit was really weak.

Colin: Points to balence patch

Sasha: Fine as is

ealge: maybe a small defence boost on his air units?

Drake: maybe a small defence boost on his sea units?

Jess: give her 110/110. Take away her SCOP movement boosts

Kanbei: fine

Sonja: Dunno about her loseing the Day to Day FOW

Sensei: Lose transport boost

Grimm: Fine

Flak: fine

Lash: terrain is +5% per star day to day, +10% during powers. Power meter is now ***8888

Adder: Balence patch

Hawke: fine

Jugger: fine but Perhaps he should get changed. I like terregent's suggestions

Koal: Needs unique co powers

Kindle: balenced

Von bolt: Balenced. Please Don't touch him. He's balenced
rifton wrote:I think the TC deserves a medal for taking something with the most win ever, and making it fail horribly. :\
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Belgdor
Rank: That guy

Post by Belgdor » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:37 pm

ubergeneral wrote:
Von bolt: underpowered. Please touch him. He needs it.
fix'd...and Kindle...BALANCED?!?! SHE'S FRIGGIN' BROKEN ON LARGE MAPS! AND OVERPOWERED ON SMALL MAPS!
You're an escaped prisoner, this ship is about to explode, and I have the ONLY way off of this ship. I'm offering to take you with me. And you're arguing.

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Shift Breaker
Rank: Combo Chicken
Location: Definitely WWN. Really.

Post by Shift Breaker » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:20 pm

:andyds: - 1 More Star for Hyper Upgrade. Also, Restore 3HP on Cities/Bases.

:maxds: - Make him his AW2 Self once again. That Movement Boost is what you needed to counter Grit's Range Bonus, as they are opposites, remember?

:samids: - AW2 Balance Patch. Every Last Detail.

:jake: - Fine as he is.

:rachel: - Give Covering Fire 1 more Star. Remove the 3HP Recover on Cities, give Missile Guard.

:nellds: - AW2 Day to Day, Powers AW2 Balance Patch. Make her All Good weaker than Flak's Good/Bad.

:hachids: - :smallstar::smallstar::smallstar::smallstar::bigstar::bigstar::bigstar:

:olaf: - Same. No Change Needed.(Unless you can get the old Snow Back)

:gritds: - No Change. He's the same as AW2, after all.

:colinds: - :smallstar::smallstar::smallstar::bigstar::bigstar::bigstar: It Removes DGR, But it still means you can use it pretty early.

:sasha: - Same Stars as Colin, Same Reasons.

:eagleds: - 130/100 Stats for Air units.

:drakeds: - 120/120 for Sea. +1 Movement. Makes up for Not Good Sea, also makes his BBs the best in the game.

:jessds: - 115/100 for Land. Same otherwise.

:javier: - He's too Invincible. Lower the Tower Defence to 7%.

:kanbeids: - Same. He's good.

:sonjads: - Same. I may be one of the few people who think this, but she's alright. Maybe give CB +1 Star.

:senseids: - RETURN TO AW2!!!

:grimm: - Lower Defence by 10% during COPs, If Possible. Other than that, same.

:flakds: - Same.

:lashds: - 5% Day to Day, 10% during COP, 5% + Double Stars during SCOP. 1 Movement Cost Always.

:adderds: - Give Offencive Boost to Sidewinder. +20% should do.

:hawkeds: - Same. He's still Freakin Painful on Large Maps.

:jugger: - Give 120% Offence, Bad Luck. As someone's already said. But have a Complete Revamp.

:koal: - Same. Completly different playing style from Adder, so he's good.

:kindle: - LOWER THE OFFENCIVE BOOST DURING SCOP. 230% is Insane. Lower it to 180%.

:vonbolt: - Keep the SCOP only. It's an Unwritten Rule. You messed with Sturm, Keep VB the Same. Though give him 120/120 stats & 1 Movement Cost.

You guys need an Olaf DS Face.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
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Post by Xenesis » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:45 pm

Shift Breaker wrote::maxds: - Make him his AW2 Self once again. That Movement Boost is what you needed to counter Grit's Range Bonus, as they are opposites, remember?
Er, but as is, he's more powerful and more versatile. Grit beat him in AW2 because his meatshields always survived at a single flipping health, not because Max couldn't reach his troops...Just because they're opposite specialties, doesn't mean that they need to have opposite stats...
:drakeds:- 120/120 for Sea. +1 Movement. Makes up for Not Good Sea, also makes his BBs the best in the game.
Er, are you trying to balance Drake or make him almost as broken as Sturm? That's sickeningly powerful, especially with the currently beefed navy. No one in Air or at Sea would stand a chance in the slightest!
:sasha:- Same Stars as Colin, Same Reasons.
An early game Market Crash isn't really that powerful, and besides, it'd make her a bit underpowered in 1v1 CO games, really. Sasha's pretty well balanced as is.
:adderds: - Give Offencive Boost to Sidewinder. +20% should do.
Eh, that would make it pretty well unconditionally better than Trail of Woe. If anything, 115% total firepower under Sidewinder would be alright and would balance the gap between the two SCOPs.
:jugger: - Give 120% Offence, Bad Luck. As someone's already said. But have a Complete Revamp.
Yeah, it would make it a bit more interesting. No real complaints, I guess.
:kindle: - LOWER THE OFFENCIVE BOOST DURING SCOP. 230% is Insane. Lower it to 180%.
And she gets it on what, a single property or less during SCOP? It's a big number, sure, but she almost never gets to take advantage of it, unless you play Bundle City religiously.
:vonbolt: - Keep the SCOP only. It's an Unwritten Rule. You messed with Sturm, Keep VB the Same. Though give him 120/120 stats & 1 Movement Cost.
Why do you insist on making him broken? WHY WHY WHY? WHY DOES A CO Have to be broken when we're discussing a balance? Your suggested changes mess with him almost as badly as trying to balance AW2 Sturm did. Considering, you're turning him from borderline underpowered to broken...And besides, Vonny isn't Sturm.

And I'll twiddle with what I like. It's the core essential of being a hacker.
You guys need an Olaf DS Face.
Yes, yes we do. Blame Ninty for not having any official Olaf art at the time we put up the emoticons. <_<
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HPD
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Mentat
Location: The Mountain

Post by HPD » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:21 pm

I tried to make an Olaf smiley from the official art of the AWDS site, but horribly failed..

I'll try it again when I feel like it.
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Sniffit
Location: Out of my mind

Post by Sniffit » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:24 pm

Where's the AWDS site... I'm having no luck finding it...
You know something's gone horribly wrong when hostilities between users begin to look like an appealing alternative to the new topic of conversation. - Terragent

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Shift Breaker
Rank: Combo Chicken
Location: Definitely WWN. Really.

Post by Shift Breaker » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:53 pm

Sniffit wrote:Where's the AWDS site... I'm having no luck finding it...
What, you mean advancewars.com?

But Yeah...

Anyway, Let's discuss.

Max - What's the point of having Overpowered units, when once you've plowed through the Blockade, you can't send Reinforcements to get to the Indirects? Higher Boost for the units, but at least a +1 movement during the SCOP.

Drake - Alright. One or the Other. 120 attack or 120 Defence. I'd prefer the defence. Let's just make him AW2.

Sasha - Fine. I can see your point. But a Double/Endless Market Crash is annoying.

Adder - You're just giving 5% extra attack during his SCOP.

Kindle - It is situational, but I'd prefer that, or it only works on your Cities, and maybe Neutral.

Von Blot(Yes, puposeful Error.) - He seems slightly underpowered now though. Winter fury has a higher area effect, costs less stars, and is more Devastating.(Weaken Enemy Units, make yours More Powerful, AND make the Snow last for 2 Turns!! That's Evil. Pure Evil.) And the 120 Defence was a bit of an accident. I meant 100. Average Defence, Above Average offence, get your way through forests. Simple.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Post by Xenesis » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:16 pm

Shift Breaker wrote:Anyway, Let's discuss.

Max - What's the point of having Overpowered units, when once you've plowed through the Blockade, you can't send Reinforcements to get to the Indirects? Higher Boost for the units, but at least a +1 movement during the SCOP.
You can feasibly abuse high movement units like recons that slice up indirects like a hot knife through butter, especially under SCOP. It's just..not needed.
Drake - Alright. One or the Other. 120 attack or 120 Defence. I'd prefer the defence. Let's just make him AW2.
You don't seem to get how significantly upgraded the navy is in AWDS. The 1 movement alone breaks it. The 120% firepower is less useful than the defence, but any defence turns Drake into a beast.
Adder - You're just giving 5% extra attack during his SCOP.
He already gets 110/110 units with +2 movement. He doesn't really need much more.
Kindle - It is situational, but I'd prefer that, or it only works on your Cities, and maybe Neutral.
It seems kind of picky and pointless when maybe one unit out of 20-30 will get to abuse it in any given battle, regardless.

Von Blot(Yes, puposeful Error.) - He seems slightly underpowered now though. Winter fury has a higher area effect, costs less stars, and is more Devastating.(Weaken Enemy Units, make yours More Powerful, AND make the Snow last for 2 Turns!! That's Evil. Pure Evil.) And the 120 Defence was a bit of an accident. I meant 100. Average Defence, Above Average offence, get your way through forests. Simple.
Well, the 1 movement cost on all terrain makes absolutely no sense regardless. The SCOP is a bit underpowered, but the SCOP does give him +10/10 by default as per all powers. I mean, he's only borderline underpowered, and that's only really in tag battles. In non tag battles, he powers up a bit, mainly because Tag breaks are no longer in the equation.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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ubergeneral
Location: USA

Post by ubergeneral » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:10 am

Belgdor wrote:
ubergeneral wrote:
Von bolt: underpowered. Please touch him. He needs it.
fix'd...and Kindle...BALANCED?!?! SHE'S FRIGGIN' BROKEN ON LARGE MAPS! AND OVERPOWERED ON SMALL MAPS!
How is von bolt underpowered? He's is only co that gets a day to day offencive and defence boost with normal prices. His power his supposed to be weak.

I never played kindle much but she seems okay considering that cites are sparse and her big boosts come from her SCOP.
rifton wrote:I think the TC deserves a medal for taking something with the most win ever, and making it fail horribly. :\
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