Best all-around tag team with skills?

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Nix

Best all-around tag team with skills?

Post by Nix » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:47 am

I wanted to know what the general consensus here was on the best all-around team to use with skills (or w/o for that matter). Personally I think Colin and Grit work well, but I came here and it seems that Hachi might be a better choice than Colin, because of his SCOP. Though I like Colin because of his 80% day to day price benefit over Hachi's 90%. I just was wondering what the current theories floating around were, and what ya'll thought.

Thanks!
-Nix

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Post by Sleepnowinthefire » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:58 am

Depends on the map. I personaly go for Eagle/Sami or Hawke/Andy. But in predeployed, i spose Hachi/Sensei pwns. Mainly I chose tags because of characters though. (even Eagle/Hawke)
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Post by Xenesis » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:05 am

I think the best possible Tag Team is Sasha/Colin. Kanbei/Sonja have the best Tag, but the sheer insanity of Sasha/Colin D2D makes up for it.
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Post by Tronn_Bonne » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:12 am

Well if we are talking the “best” overall tag then that basically means which one is the most broken. Pretty much all the tags that have three star affinities are really good because both COs are getting +15% luck D2D and they have extremely high (120% +) firepower boosts during their Tag Breaks. However, the infamous Olaf/Drake tag is an example of an extremely broken tag despite the fact that there is no tag affinity between the two COs. In this case their Tag Break and the devastating synergy that their SCOPs have with one another (when Drake starts the tag) makes it next to impossible to counter. I guess it is half a dozen to another but if I had to pick I would go with the Colin/Sasha tag. Colin is so broken anyway and the tag has three stars with maxed out firepower. You can also make this tag even more broken by maxing out on the cost reduction and money skills.
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Nix

Post by Nix » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:07 pm

So Colin/Sasha would be preferable over possibly Hachi/Grit or Colin/Grit?

I meant which 2 CO's made the most effective pair, not just tag power. I think I used the wrong words.

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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:10 pm

In my opinion, I give it to Hachi/Kanbei.
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Post by Graymalkin » Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:32 am

If we're talking about the combination, rather than the tag, whilst Colin/ Sasha can hardly be faulted (for cheapness, in both senses of the word), I'd have to be entirely predictable and go for Battle Standard. Add skills, particularly the teammate ones to Sonja, and the Kanbei element becomes unstoppable. Even the Tag works well...

For a Tag, though, I'd have to go for Hachi/ Kanbei.

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Post by LazyFrosty » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:30 am

I think Colin/Sasha have the synergy of tomato sauce and choclate ice cream. Colin's playstyle is about aggressive take over and Sasha is about Stalemate...they are like the total opposite of each other...you need a lot of luck to make their tag work with synergy and not with Colin's enhanced brokeness.

I think tags like Hachi+Kanbei or Drake+Olaf have much much more synergy and are capable of doing more damage than Trust Fund, mainly the former. So yeah, I vote for Hachi+Kanbei for best D2D tag and Drake+Olaf for best Tag Break.

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Post by Blame Game » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:09 am

Hm...

Frosty basically summed things up for me right there.

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Post by Oracle of Wuffing » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:56 am

Okies, completely stupid idea here, but isn't enhancing Colin's brokenness a valid means of using teamwork?

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But if that's the case, then the Synergy, Bodyguard, and Teamwork skills... aren't part of Working... as... A... Team?
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Post by Tronn_Bonne » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:38 am

LazyFrosty wrote:you need a lot of luck to make their tag work with synergy and not with Colin's enhanced brokeness.


There is the key concept for that tag since almost any team rich boy is on is going to be dominated by him. Therefore, you might as well stick him with Sasha so he also gets the D2D luck and (if you actually decided to use a Tag Break) the firepower boost.

Anyway, if we are talking about raw synergy then Drake/Olaf take the cake since their Tag Break is so... evil. However, a less broken example of good synergy between COs (Especially D2D synergy) are Koal and Kindle. Of course in application Kindle will be used most of the time since her stats are too good in AWDS and the critical battles tend to center on controlling a few properties.
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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:07 am

That's why I suggested the Hachi/Kanbei combination.

Kanbei
- Slam Guard
- Snipe Guard
- Slam Shield
- Snipe Shield

Hachi
- Synergy
- Bodyguard
- Sale Price
- Fire Sale

With these skills, Hachi gets 77% prices D2D. Not quite on the level of Colin, but we're using Hachi because of his SCOP.

Kanbei gets the defensive forces. Those forces coupled with the Synergy and Bodyguard forces of Hachi give Kanbei 128/150 units D2D. Colin, with all of his brokenness, can't handle that kind of defense.

The tag break is just as devastating. Hachi builds the units at his usual discount, then you switch to Kanbei and move all of your superior and numerous forces forward. The enemy can't do anything thanks to that defense, unless you're facing a Drake/Olaf tag, which is possibly the only tag break that could handle Hachi/Kanbei.
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Post by psychotic guy » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:29 am

Since Hachi's powers drop price to 50% (as opposed to halving, think it's the same with forces too), swapping some of those price down forces for income up ones might not be a bad idea.

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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:17 am

The income increasing forces are kind of underwhelming. I believe you would get more by lowering the existing prices, but that's my opinion.
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Post by psychotic guy » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:23 am

Yeah, I think something like an in between route between the two would work pretty well though.

Not that it would make too much of a difference on an already broken tag.

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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:24 am

Seriously, Kanbei is all you need in a tag. He can go with nearly any CO in the game.
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Post by Tronn_Bonne » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:59 am

DTaeKim wrote: Kanbei gets the defensive forces. Those forces coupled with the Synergy and Bodyguard forces of Hachi give Kanbei 128/150 units D2D. Colin, with all of his brokenness, can't handle that kind of defense.


This is true since defense is very frightening when it stacks and, with rank skills, the Hachi/Kanbei team is the most broken. However, if you exclude rank skills from the equation it becomes a little harder to say for certain which team is the absolute strongest. I'll continue to stand by the Drake/Olaf team since only the Andy/Jess team is really capable of recovering (which is not the same thing as countering) from that Tag Break.
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Post by f3nr15 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:36 pm

Andy and Hawke FTW.
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Post by Terragent » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:15 pm

I'd seriously have to go with Colin/Sasha. Colin can use the cost reduction forces to pay 63% for his units, and the Gold force will have him paying a little under 55% on a day-to-day basis. He effectively gets all the benefits of Barter for free. Sasha ought to have Gold and Bodyguard - other good filler forces for either would probably be star power or luck - and you've got the evil discount siblings. They'll outnumber their opponent nearly two-to-one and out-tech them so badly it won't be funny. More importantly, they can use Gold Rush to feed Market Crash and effectively prevent their opposition from getting anything heftier than a four-star power for a ridiculously long time. And if they want to do a tag break, then they've got a hell of a lot of punch.

Even against God Kanbei they'll dominate, because it doesn't matter that his units take ridiculously little damage; he pays nearly as much for a tank as Colin pays for a Md tank under this setup - and if he switches out to Hachi for discounts then he suddenly becomes insanely vulnerable.

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Post by Indeconterion » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:43 pm

I believe we should just totally axe the skills from this discussion....>_>


I may be out of touch with the outside world, but I nominate Jess/Javier for their formidible advancing wall....

gwahahahahah I just love Javier's SCOP, sorry >_>
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Post by Blame Game » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:40 pm

Lol, 'God Kanbei.'

But honestly, I think that the team of Kanbei and Hachi basically rapes Colin/Sasha no matter what you do. Does a Megatank dealing less than 60% damage to an infantry mean anything to you? Kanbei doesn't need to tech up for crap when he can buy infantry just as fast as Colin can that will never, ever go down without being absolutely nuked.

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Post by Indeconterion » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:47 pm

Of course, nuking will be common since Colin can probably spam Black Bombs like there's no tomorrow.......I'm assuming this is a large enough map of course.

Any small map = Kanbei dominance.
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Post by Blame Game » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:07 pm

Dammit, I forgot about Black Bombs. >_>

I suppose it will be fairly map-dependant then, if only because of that single unit being so damned abusive. @_@

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Post by Indeconterion » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:30 am

yeah T_T
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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:52 am

Colin/Kanbei

Needs no explanation. >_>

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Post by Terragent » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:06 am

Actually, it does. Hachi is a much better partner for Kanbei because his costs are lower on individual turns (IE, when he's using his CO Power) than Colin's ever are. Colin is a CO who needs to be used continuously to be useful, not just brought out for occasional mega-discounts.

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Post by Graymalkin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:11 am

I have to say, I'd always pick a Hachi/ Kanbei partnership over a Colin/ Kanbei one.

The Colin/ Kanbei tag is nowhere near as scary as the Hachi one...
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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:22 am

Put it this way, a Colin/Kanbei Tag Power could be absolutely devastating. I haven't done any calculations or anything, but it could be entirely possible to reach 300% attack pretty easily with just Colin alone. Add that on top of Kanbei's uber units, and you have an absolutely monster Tag Power. Colin, while not even active, will also be able to charge and use Gold Rush every few turns turns once the match heats up.

The Tag Power is easily break through any sort of chokepoint, even if it is held by Grit.

While a Hachi/Kanbei tag has the advantage of being to build ground units on Cities at half the cost during Hachi's SCOP, Colin will be able to Gold Rush to make up for it, and at a lower star cost. Colin will also have numbers to make up for his 10% weaker attack than Hachi, but to be completely honest, his nerf in attack doesn't really hurt him too much anyway.

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Post by Terragent » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:25 am

The problem with that is that it forces you to have Colin out front almost half the time, while pairing Hachi with Kanbei lets you have Kanbei front up and benefit from his monster stats nearly all the time and only switch to Hachi for powers and big discounts.

Regardless of whether he can beat Kanbei or not, Colin is best with Sasha.

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Post by Indeconterion » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:26 am

Gold Rush still doesn't compare to Barter.......
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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:42 am

Indeconterion wrote:Gold Rush still doesn't compare to Barter.......


It depends on how much fund you have/what you're building.

Terragent wrote:The problem with that is that it forces you to have Colin out front almost half the time, while pairing Hachi with Kanbei lets you have Kanbei front up and benefit from his monster stats nearly all the time and only switch to Hachi for powers and big discounts.



You can do the same with Colin.

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Post by Terragent » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:48 am

Except that that's a complete waste when Hachi can do it better and have 10% more firepower when he's doing it. Colin is better as a primary CO.

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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:07 am

But Colin has 20% less costs as opposed to Hachi's 10% d2d. Basically one would just switch to Colin when one needs to buy something expensive.

It would certainly give you an advantage. If, for instance, the opponent has a fund advantage (War Room map or whatever) and starts cranking out Mds, just switch to Colin for building, and then switch to Kanbei when it comes to attack.

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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:24 am

Why do you keep referring to War Room maps for your examples?
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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:28 am

It was just an example. If you make a huge blunder, your opponent could quite easily gain a fund advantage, effectively making it just like a War Room game.

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Post by thefalman » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:31 am

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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:40 am

Lol it happens to me. ;)

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Post by Yuganon » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:53 am

Colin/Kanbei reminds me of Max/Grit. Overrated, and ineffective. It's extremely hard to switch from 'weak stats/cheap units' to 'big stats/expensive units' because it will usually mess up your strategy a bit. This mess-up isn't as much compared to Max/Grit, but Kanbei/Hachi has nothing like that as Hachi has no weakness.
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Post by Tronn_Bonne » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:50 am

The Colin/Kanbei tag is certainly awkward but still nasty since both COs are so strong. Still, you will probably find yourself sticking to one or the other of the two COs for a good portion of the game (probably Colin until you can get a sizable army out there).
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