Best all-around tag team with skills?

Talk about Advance Wars DS. Debate, laugh, cry, argue about everything to do with our favourite tag game here.
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Mr.Mario
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Post by Mr.Mario » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:53 am

Max/Grit, haha. It's a terrible tag outside of some predeployed campaign missions.

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Post by Bog » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:48 pm

I agree that Max/Grit is a terrible tag.

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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:54 pm

I disagree. They're hardly up to the level of the broken tag teams, but they're a highly competitive and very synergistic team. Boosted luck turns Grit's infantry into murder machines and leaves his direct units barely below average, while it turns Max into an unstoppable battering ram. And their tag power is one of the nastiest ever. A very respectable team, even if they'll never be up to the level of Olaf/Drake or Colin/Anyone.

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CO_Frosty
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Post by CO_Frosty » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:58 pm

On other note, I hate when people tag Colin and any other CO (mostly Sasha) and call it a team. Thats not team, thats Colin with space for more 4 forces and Lightning Strike included on his SCOP. 99% of the time, the mission of the Colin's partner is to have 4 forces ala bodyguard, give addition strenght to Colin and Lightning Strike to his powers <_<;;

Regarding Max/Grit. The tag Break itself is very interesting. Max goes first, paves a way of destruction with the directs and move the indirects into position, then Grit comes, destroy the remaining units and finish any weak one with the directs. But for that to be effective, you will need a really balanced army, and neither of them is really effective using a balanced army.

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Post by Graymalkin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:09 pm

Big Country in one respect is the greatest tag-team of all - comedy dialogue...

Grit - 'That was harder'n whackin' snakes with a bucket.'

Max - 'A bucket... ?'

My favourite victory quote in the whole game...
So I broke into the palace, with a sponge and a rusty spanner...

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Post by Cheapness=FUN!!! » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:14 am

Best tag is easy
Colin
-Sale Price
-Fire slae
-Gold Rush
-Star Power
Sasha
-Bodyguard
-synergy
-the other power that helps your teammate
-star power
Easy, just use Colin 100% of the time, use Gold Rush like crazy, and then when the enemy is nearly dead switch to Sasha and activate the tag.
Cheapness=FUN!!!

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:23 pm

God Kanbei > Sasha/Colin
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Post by Hans Stockmann » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:27 pm

So what is Kanbei now, God-Emperor of Yellow Comet?
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:02 pm

DTaeKim wrote:God Kanbei > Sasha/Colin
I would honestly argue otherwise, and I'd even be willing to play you with said teams if it were possible. It doesn't matter if your units aren't spectacular if you're able to outnumber your opponent two-to-one and prevent them from getting anything nastier than a three-star CO Power for half the game.

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:04 am

I believe that his defense can hold out against any ground force that Colin sends out.

When you throw in airports on the other hand, I concede the point.
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Post by Bog » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:35 am

I disagree. While Colin's units are weaker, the penalty is only 90%, and then you have luck on top of that. That means it's a 50% chance of getting 95%-100% attack, and 5% less attack isn't exactly a HUGE weakness. If you are playing with Forces enabled, you can get a 110/110 Colin d2d, and that's not even taking luck into account. *shiver*

A good Kanbei player will NEVER build Neotanks; the price is just ridiculous for what they are. Mds are just much more economic with Kanbei. Colin, however, can buy Neos for LESS than what Kanbei pays for his Mds! The same argument can apply to Artillery and Rockets, although not so much seeing as the price gap between the two is pretty large.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:38 am

I dare you to take out one of "God" Kanbei's tanks sitting on a city, or break through a Kanbei Inf-Arty meatwall, especially with less than normal attack. Of course, like Kimmy said, it probably wouldn't work if an airport was thrown into the mix, but I think you're underestimating Kanbei's potential defense Boglet.

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Post by Bog » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:23 am

With skills, Colin can become literally amazing. I wouldn't say no to 108/113 units, even cheaper units than normal, +100g dtd (200g when Sasha is in combat) and not to mention the broken dtd of standard Colin. Don't even get me started on the tag power.....

lol

Post by lol » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:55 am

Actually, get me started on the tag power. Trust Funds Tag break is only any effective if Sasha is in th front, and if Sasha is the active CO, the tag is useless.

Nothing can battle those uber Kanbei infantries. Hell, on Colin vs Kanbei matchups, its common that it turns into a inf+art vs megatanks, but WITH the inf+art having a damn good chance of winning <_<;. Again, the only thing that may make Colin win with no doubt is that wonderful thing called "Bbomb".

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Post by Bog » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:18 am

lol wrote:Actually, get me started on the tag power. Trust Funds Tag break is only any effective if Sasha is in th front, and if Sasha is the active CO, the tag is useless.
Then have Sasha in front when you're coming up to your tag power. Colin's dtd is far superiour, but Sasha is better during her powers, and she has a slightly better dtd.
Nothing can battle those uber Kanbei infantries. Hell, on Colin vs Kanbei matchups, its common that it turns into a inf+art vs megatanks, but WITH the inf+art having a damn good chance of winning <_<;. Again, the only thing that may make Colin win with no doubt is that wonderful thing called "Bbomb".
Exactly. Colin would absolutely pwn on an air map, however, we have all agreed upon that. On land-only maps, they will be pretty much on-par. While Kanbei will have godly Infantries, Colin will have more of them.

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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:59 am

By the way, the additional luck D2D will have a drastically reduced effect against God Kanbei because of his insane defense.
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Post by Terragent » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:52 am

But Colin will be buying a medium tank for every Inf/art combo Kanbei gets (unless he wants to switch out and lose his uber defence, yadda yadda yadda). It doesn't matter that he has trouble hurting Kanbei, because he'll have expanded massively in the early game and be out-funding Kanbei something fierce. I can easily see him outnumbering Kanbei so badly that the stats will simply become irrelevant.

lol

Post by lol » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:15 am

He will expand like mad? how odd.

Expansion takes a lot infantry spam than transports, at least based on the current metagame. This means that the stat of the infantries will have more importance than your capacity to spam them. Colin will need a lot of angry villagers to take out one of Kanbei's infantries from a city. He will be basically Sami with uber directs.

After the capturing phase, Colin may have some kind of advantage, but I wouldn't put my money on that. Kanbei may not be able to buy anything bigger than tanks to protect his properties, but he doesn't need anything else to start with, while Colin will need to pump those Mdtanks or mass tanks to get an advantage on a disputed area.

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Post by Powdered Toast Man » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:30 pm

Colin can buy Infantry and APCs for much lower prices than every other CO in the game while saving money that other COs wish they had. This means he'll reach cities quicker and capture them to receive even more money while saving more on top that. Pretty soon, he'll be cranking out at least 3 or maybe even 4 tanks every day, or 1 or 2 MD Tanks.

I sure wouldn't doubt the effectiveness of all that but nor would I doubt the effectiveness of God-Kanbei/Sonja tag. I can see the two locked in a stalemate of doom; Colin foddering his units and replacing them exponentially and Kanbei just sitting back waiting for the next few turns to pass before buying another couple of Infantry and tanks.

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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:30 am

Terr is right. While it may take three or four Colin Infantries to kill a god Kanbei Infantry on a City, it doesn't really mean much. A City is hardly the most common type of terrain in the game. If Kanbei is just going to stall all his units on Cities all day, he will find it very hard to expand. All it does is make his a good capturer.

Besides, those "three or four Colin infantries" you use to kill Kanbei's Infantry on a City will still have some HP left, letting you join them.

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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:36 am

If numbers is the greatest argument against God Kanbei, why not pair Kanbei with Colin or Hachi?

I suggest Hachi over Colin because their tag break is much more effective than a tag break between Colin/Kanbei IMO.
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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:18 am

One of Colin's biggest strengths is his 80% cost of units. Hachi is similar, but Colin's is more powerful.

And this argument is about Colin/Sasha vs God Kanbei.

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:35 am

God Kanbei needs a tag partner to be completely effective.
Last edited by DTaeKim on Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:36 am

Then this debate is utterly pointless. And what makes you say that?

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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:42 am

God Kanbei needs the additional skills to be called God Kanbei.

Kanbei by himself is 120/140 I believe.
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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:49 am

You said tag partner. I know that he needs skills. Duh, do you think I was born yesterday?

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:59 am

I just said Kanbei by himself with skills is 120/140.

God Kanbei is 128/150 with the two teamwork skills. That's quite a difference.
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Post by thefalman » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:02 am

Couldn't you get 133/150 with all three of the teamwork skills?
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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:08 am

Yeah, but I think if I was going to use Hachi/Kanbei, I'll attach the two price reduction skills instead of that additional offensive one.
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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:50 am

DTaeKim wrote: God Kanbei is 128/150 with the two teamwork skills. That's quite a difference.
Oh, I just thought you meant the basic force boosts, and then the others, which you get at level 7 or 8. My argument still stands, however.

DTK

Post by DTK » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:06 am

It is only fair that God Kanbei gets a tag partner against the tag combination of Colin/Sasha.

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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:18 am

True, but this debate was about KANBEI. We haven't even covered what CO he is going to tag with. That could change a whole lot of things. If he tags with Hachi, Colin will get owned. Anyone else won't really work.

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Post by BJack » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:07 am

bog-bog wrote:True, but this debate was about KANBEI.
No it wasn't. It was about what the best tag is. >_>
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Post by Bog » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:01 pm

Originally it was, yes.

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Indeconterion
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Post by Indeconterion » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:25 pm

God Kanbei vs. Colin/Sasha.
Attrition vs. Nuke

obvious winner.

Why's there a debate on this? Doesn't the availibility of Ports or Airports automatically make it a Colin/Sasha win? The only chance Kanbei has is a small map or those continent sized islands like deer harbor (there's where the game will take 99+ days).

Colin/Sasha has baffling economic advantages, numbers, high tiered units, POM, and the trump card.....nukes.

All Kanbei gets are cost-effective defensive units and one turn invincibility. That invincibility only comes if he dares to switch to his tag CO partner, in which case his line would be severly hammered by Colin's high tiered units. Even if he does tag, he leaves Sonja, Hachi, whoever at the helm, and their units can't handle Colin's higher tiered units.

Finally, you can nuke the whole God Kanbei argument with a simple Black Bomb.
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Post by Dragon Fogel » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:55 pm

Black Bombs have no bearing on the current discussion. From above:
DTaeKim wrote:I believe that his defense can hold out against any ground force that Colin sends out.

When you throw in airports on the other hand, I concede the point.
I don't really have an opinion on this right now, just thought it should be pointed out that there's currently no argument against Colin when Black Bombs are involved.
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Indeconterion
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Post by Indeconterion » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:09 pm

Looks like I missed that part :?
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Post by Atticus! » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:36 am

With skills? Sonja with lucky and money forces and Kanbei with defense forces never fails me. (Sonja over Hachi for extra luck.) Without is map dependant.

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Indeconterion
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Post by Indeconterion » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:10 am

Who needs luck when you got +180(?) def during tag anyhow? Who needs attack either? Seriously, with that high def, you can just gain some ground, plant a rocket there, and watch your opponent fruitlessly try to kill it and then retreat all his indirects within the rocket's range >_>
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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:12 am

Basically.
What can change the nature of a man?

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