Which CO is stronger: Sami or Sensei?

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Guesty

Which CO is stronger: Sami or Sensei?

Post by Guesty » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:16 am

Yes, another CO debate...

I think Sensei's stronger IMO because of the transport boost and his cheaper power...
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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:12 am

Sensei for the most part.
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:36 am

This makes no sense.

Sami is a specialist in only two units: Mech's and Infantry.

Hachi is not a master, and he could swarm her with cheap units.

Obviousl Hachi.

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Post by Linkman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:14 am

...Hood? You might want to re-read your post. Or the topic title.

I don't know because AWDS balance is silly.
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inde

Post by inde » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:41 am

I dunno, I hate fighting either. (mainly cause I only use AW1 Sturm and Javier >_>)

I hate Sensei more......his COP spam really opened my eyes to how overpowered he was >_>

He's alot harder to fight than Sami, seeing as he has a cheap COP that can make a comeback from even an extremely sloppy early game.

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Post by Treedweller » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:09 am

Linky wrote:...Hood? You might want to re-read your post. Or the topic title.

I don't know because AWDS balance is silly.
Unfortunately, when IS was balancing both AW1 and 2, they were on copious amounts of crack.

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Post by Linkman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 am

Well, then crack equals fun games. Have you even seen AWDS COs? Some of them could probably take on AW1 Max. And they were never meant to be broken.
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Post by thefalman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:06 am

Oh come off it Linky, AW1 Max is still arguably one of the most broken COs EVER, surpassed only by AW2 Sturm. Colin/Grit/Hachi were broken in AW2 anyway, and Kanbei and Sensei got toned down in AWDS (probably not enough though). The rest of the COs are nowhere near AW1 Max power level.

As for the original question, while I personally prefer Sami, I'd still say Sensei is the stronger, because those powers are still vicious even if they're not producing 140/100 monsters anymore.
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Post by Treedweller » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Linky wrote:Well, then crack equals fun games. Have you even seen AWDS COs? Some of them could probably take on AW1 Max. And they were never meant to be broken.
What happened to your sense of balance? Certainly the advantage of actually having a super CO power would help -despite that being an AW2 addition rather than an AW DS one- but I would say the large majority of the new COs (in fact all, minus a tower happy Javier) wouldn't stand a remote chance against AW1 Max even on chokepoint laden map. All the COs considered broken have remained so from AW2 (Grit, Colin, Hachi) and only three COs were powered up from AW2 (Sonja, Jess, Eagle). Eagle's power-up was understandable, because he was horrible on an airless map, whereas Sonja and Jess are the only unjustifiable power-up from AW2 that resulted in two overpowered COs.

Seriously, AW1 and 2 were not what you'd call balanced games. Of course, you're probably more concerned with the single player, in which one could viably argue was more fun than AW DS.

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Post by Sven » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:24 pm

hey linkie, you can take colin, i'll smash you to bits with 150/100 :)

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Post by Linkman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:47 pm

We could try AW1 Bean Island lol

EDIT: Well, perhaps comparing them to Max was an exaggeration, mostly because AW1 Max never struck me as that broken (which is what happens when you don't play him often; he was always banned.) But despite that, it takes just a look at the AWDS roster to notice how they decided the new COs should follow the new balance, and the older ones shouldn't.

COs like Andy and Adder pale pathetically in front of most of the new COs. Jess got a power-up that made her absolutely ridiculous in ground maps, Lash got relegated to being with Andy and Adder, possibly along with Drake who lost his main assets in front of a renewed navy (though I do not know how this affected Drake, so I don't make any comment.) And while you claim Sensei was nerfed, one could perfectly argue his main weakness was negated making him an even more terrifying CO in ground-aerial maps, specially since the current meta-game has such an important role for infantry units.

And the new CO additions were completely inconsistent with balance. You have underpowered COs like Jugger (which is an exact copy of the also underpowered Flak, but with different numbers? crazy un-crack IS people) and Grimm, better-than-average COs (which is now average, making half of the previous roster underpowered) like Jake and Kindle, and downright broken COs like Sasha and Rachel. All that combined plus bad balancing of the previous roster makes AWDS the most unbalanced of the AW trilogy; not that much because of the new COs, but because of the clash of said COs with the completely differently balanced previous ones.

That's my rant, and I'm sticking to it.
Last edited by Linkman on Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Treedweller » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:31 pm

Sasha is broken? *raises eyebrows*

You could certainly argue that she's overpowered, but it's difficult to make a case for her being in a similar league to either Hachi, Grit, Colin, or even Nell. Rachel is a bit more questionable, but I think recent testing has actually dropped her a tier, putting her in the same league as more 'normal' COs. As for the rest of your argument, I kind of view it as being similar to a grumpy old man reminiscing about the 'old days.'

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Post by Linkman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:41 pm

Hey, no school like old school. And go ahead, try pitting Adder against Sasha.
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Post by thefalman » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:16 pm

Overpowered =/= Broken.

Adder is unfortunately sub-par in the AWDS world because hey I have no dtd.
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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:35 pm

Oddly enough, I think Sasha would be a poor choice against Adder due to his quick powers.

It would end up being a battle of the D2Ds, and unless the Adder player was tactically better than his opponent, Sasha may win due to her D2D.

It's still going to be a close match.
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Post by Powdered Toast Man » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:07 pm

It has to be Sensei. If the guy's not using his midgets to meatwall the opponent he simply combines them and gets HUEG MONEYZ!!! And, you won't find B Copters like those anywhere else. :P

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Post by Kiltman2 » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:54 pm

To address the initial question, Sensei is the stronger CO, purely because of the powers, however, his B-copter boost isn't as powerful as you'd assume. A B-copter can be easily countered with an A-air or another B-copter, and the new defences of cruisers especially makes B-copters quite useless fighting a navy.

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Post by TehMutaRuzh » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:44 pm

Sensei T_T Sami's D2D might be more useful imo, but her powers are a lot less flexible compared to Sensei's. And even if Sami is stronger than Sensei, I'd have to say that facing off against a million SCVs every day is a rather frustrating experience, so I'd choose to face off against Sami over Sensei if given the choice.
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Post by Sven » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:47 am

On topic, DS Sami>DS Sensei easily.
AW2 Sensei>AW2 Sami

Simple matter of 120>110 and 140>130

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Post by Terragent » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:15 am

DS Sensei does get better vehicles than DS Sami, though. <_<

As for AWDS vs AW2... no, there really wasn't a big balance issue. I would go so far as to say that most of the COs in AW2 were well above Andy's league; Drake, Jess, Olaf, Adder and Flak were roughly around Andy's power level, and everyone else was pretty much better. There were obviously hugely different degrees of better-ness - I mean there's no way Hawke was as good as Kanbei or Colin - but Andy was already an underpowered CO.

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Post by Kireato » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:22 am

Eh, DS Sensei's day to day might have been toned down, and not as interesting as Sami's. (Those capture boosts are a bitch)
But Sensei's powers are still monsters in their own right... Even with a few cities the advantages granted by having additional infantries to attack your opponents' and meatshield your units...
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Guesty

Post by Guesty » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:25 am

eternal enlightenment wrote:On topic, DS Sami>DS Sensei easily.
AW2 Sensei>AW2 Sami

Simple matter of 120>110 and 140>130
Just curious, how does 120% power of Sami outweigh the amount of sheer infantry/mech spam of Sensei and transport boost? Just wondering.
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:23 am

...

I thought we were discussing which one is stronger...

I said Hachi. I think. >_>;...

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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:28 am

Hachi isn't even in this debate. It's Sami or SENSEI.
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Post by Bog » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:22 pm

Linky: Wtf have you been smoking? Flak and Jugger underpowered? Sasha overpowered? My dear boy....

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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:30 pm

... Damn.

Well, I confuse the two. >_>...

I still say Sensei, than. Kick my ass later for ruining the thread...

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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:37 am

bog-bog, Linkman is right to a degree.
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Post by Bog » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:58 am

Flak and Jugger are awesome COs.....

Sasha is only overpowered in tag battles, but hardly anyone plays them competitively.

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Post by Blame Game » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 am

Flak and Jugger are awesome COs.....
What the hell?!
Sasha is only overpowered in tag battles, but hardly anyone plays them competitively.
...

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Post by DTaeKim » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:58 am

My thoughts exactly, Blame Game.
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:17 am

... Does this mean he's more off-topic than I am? >_>...

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Blame Game

Post by Blame Game » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:22 pm

It means that he has *no idea* what he's talking about.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:57 pm

9 HP Infantry at 140/100 scare me.
9 HP Infantry at 110/100 do not.

9 HP Mechs at 140/100 scare me.
9 HP Mechs at 110/100 do not.

Sensei got whipped with the nerf stick bad. So did Sami, but not as harshly.

They're both formidable, but they don't form their own tier anymore.

As for which one is better? I went with Sami for the reason of 120>110. But it could go either way, they're both going to own the other COs, and vs. each other they'll go so close to 50-50 it won't even matter.

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Post by Bog » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:47 pm

Flak and Jugger are seriously underrated COs. Sasha is also mega situational.

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Post by D13 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:56 am

bog-bog wrote:Flak and Jugger are seriously underrated COs.
Ummmm... No, not really.
bog-bog wrote:Sasha is also mega situational.
Umm... No, not really.

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Post by DTaeKim » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:21 am

Way to repeat your points without any backup, bog-bog.
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Post by Bog » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:52 am

Here goes, then.
bog-bog wrote:Flak and Jugger are seriously underrated COs.
Ok, they are flukey COs, but they can cause MASSIVE damage, especially when paired with luck Forces. As Xen once described, Flak makes an AWESOME tag partner with Adder. Adder can also partner with Jugger very well, if you aren't the risky type. Jugger and Flak are similar COs, and have identical play strategies.
bog-bog wrote:Sasha is also mega situational.
Sasha is situational because her abilities rely on the abundance of properties, excluding Towers. For her d2d ability to really have a huge effect, she needs to have at least 10 different properties. That means that she sucks ass in the early stages of the game, and needs to have a good capture phase. Sasha is very weak during the capture phase and a good Advance Wars player should exploit that weakness when playing against her.

On small maps without many properties, Sasha sucks. Sure, she can use her COP to deny the enemy CO access to his or her S/COPs, but a decent CO still has a much better d2d ability than Sasha. On a fair and non-baised small map, Sasha probably won't be getting much more than 700g extra cash per turn. Pathetic. Now take a balanced CO such as Max, and I'd gladly take his d2d over Sasha's anyday. Sasha sucks on small maps. Period.

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Post by D13 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:26 am

bog-bog wrote:Here goes, then.
bog-bog wrote:Flak and Jugger are seriously underrated COs.
Ok, they are flukey COs, but they can cause MASSIVE damage, especially when paired with luck Forces. As Xen once described, Flak makes an AWESOME tag partner with Adder. Adder can also partner with Jugger very well, if you aren't the risky type. Jugger and Flak are similar COs, and have identical play strategies.
Any CO can cuase MASSIVE DAMAGE when you bring forces into the conversation. And Flak and Jugger don't cause MASSIVE DAMAGE often enough for them to be awesome. The have negative luck, too.
bog-bog wrote:Sasha is also mega situational.
Sasha is situational because her abilities rely on the abundance of properties, excluding Towers. For her d2d ability to really have a huge effect, she needs to have at least 10 different properties. That means that she sucks ass in the early stages of the game, and needs to have a good capture phase. Sasha is very weak during the capture phase and a good Advance Wars player should exploit that weakness when playing against her.

On small maps without many properties, Sasha sucks. Sure, she can use her COP to deny the enemy CO access to his or her S/COPs, but a decent CO still has a much better d2d ability than Sasha. On a fair and non-baised small map, Sasha probably won't be getting much more than 700g extra cash per turn. Pathetic. Now take a balanced CO such as Max, and I'd gladly take his d2d over Sasha's anyday. Sasha sucks on small maps. Period.
She doesn't suck ass in the early stages, she's just more equal to blandy status in the early stages. And everyone needs to have a good capture phase to do well, so that isn't a point at all. Sasha is above blandy even during the capture phase (:O), so I could even say it's even more important for a blandy to have a perfect capture phase.
And I say once again, Sasha has a better capture phase than almost all other COs. She's above total blandy. >_>; ( I don't mean offense/defense-wise, though)

Also, sure she's not as good on smaller maps, but it's still extra funds. And most good AWBW maps have 10+ properties for each side anyway. Even smaller maps.
Last edited by D13 on Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Bog » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:32 am

"Any CO can cuase MASSIVE DAMAGE when you bring forces into the conversation. And Flak and Jugger don't cause MASSIVE DAMAGE often enough for them to be awesome. The have negative luck, too. "

Yep, any CO can, but Flak and Jugger even more so


"She doesn't suck ass in the early stages, she's just more equal to blandy status in the early stages. And everyone needs to have a good capture phase to do well, so that isn't a point at all. Sasha is above blandy even during the capture phase (:O), so it's even more important for a blandy to have a perfect capture phase.
And I say once again, Sasha has a better capture phase than almost all other COs. She's above total blandy. >_>; ( I don't mean offense/defense-wise, though)

Also, sure she's not as good on smaller maps, but it's still extra funds. And most good AWBW maps have 10+ properties for each side anyway. Even smaller maps."


Bland in AWDS is underpowered. And how the heck does Sasha have a better capture phase then other COs? Even with +1000g a day, she's still very weak d2d. Her decent COP is what makes her.

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D13

Post by D13 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:42 am

bog-bog wrote:"Any CO can cuase MASSIVE DAMAGE when you bring forces into the conversation. And Flak and Jugger don't cause MASSIVE DAMAGE often enough for them to be awesome. The have negative luck, too. "

Yep, any CO can, but Flak and Jugger even more so
Let's bring Von Bolt or Hawke into this conversation, hmm? Expecially Von Bolt.

Or I could play you in an AWBW match. You be Flak and I'll be Sasha.

:P
"She doesn't suck ass in the early stages, she's just more equal to blandy status in the early stages. And everyone needs to have a good capture phase to do well, so that isn't a point at all. Sasha is above blandy even during the capture phase (:O), so it's even more important for a blandy to have a perfect capture phase.
And I say once again, Sasha has a better capture phase than almost all other COs. She's above total blandy. >_>; ( I don't mean offense/defense-wise, though)

Also, sure she's not as good on smaller maps, but it's still extra funds. And most good AWBW maps have 10+ properties for each side anyway. Even smaller maps."
Bland in AWDS is underpowered. And how the heck does Sasha have a better capture phase then other COs? Even with +1000g a day, she's still very weak d2d. Her decent COP is what makes her.
But Sasha is above bland, so :P or something.

Sasha has a better capture phase because of the extra money. Why else? She can get out those few extra infanty or buy that APC you need more quickly.

Also, we really should settle this with an AWBW game. :P

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