EFFF STURM!

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Jzzy
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EFFF STURM!

Post by Jzzy » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:00 am

I'm on Final Battle and it just... GRAGH! I keep following peoples advice but I still lose, and all my friends are really good at the game. I'm using Andy, Grit, Sami, and Andy always gets bent over and freaking raped.

Please help me, I want to beat this one and move onto AW2.

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:08 am

Well, for one thing, you have what's considered to be the worst team for it. >_<

But let's leave that aside for now.

What I found to be really useful here is to allow Sturm to capture the airport in Andy's territory. Late in the map, he'll waste most of his funds building bombers from there, which can be easily wiped out if you're prepared for them. It makes it a *lot* easier to make the final push into his territory.

For the most part, the CO on the left is probably best used primarily to store up funds and spend them on expensive units to draw Meteor Strikes. Send out a few units to help the center, but don't expect much from them.

Also, one thing to note about Meteor Strike is that it will always be centered on a unit. If you have a set of units spread out like this:

X_X
___
X_X

Meteor Strike will only hit three of those units. It can't hit all four by striking the empty tile in the middle.
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Jzzy
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Jzzy » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:12 pm

Thanks alot I'll try that out tomorrow.

ThunderWalker
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:51 pm

I managed to crush Sturm with exactly the same team. Andy gets ALL his properties.

First, clump al Grits units together, around your HQ, while building some infantry and Mechs, to drag
Let Grit send a few artillery units and an APC behind to lend Andy an hand, while building a few Md. Tanks to help your poor indirects out against Sturms. Keep your Indirects safe, so don't set those up next to the mountains.

Let Andy, Grit, and Sami all get one of the southern properties.

With Sami, you build Mechs, together with a Rocket, a Missile and two Artilleries. Maybe also send in a Md. Tank.
About day fifteen, Sami should capture the Airport and two cities at her side of the map.

Grit should capture his three northern properties about day twenty-five.

With Sami, build a few B-Copters to support your mechs, while keep moving your army north. You could decide to send three mechs to capture the cities. But Andy could use them better, but it's the question Andy gets those cities easily, because my infantry often get whiped out or damaged. Sami will have an easier time capturing those with her stronger infantry and her higher capture rate.
Keep spawning mechs with her, until the end.

Andy NEEDS Grit's Indirect support. I send in three Artilleries and an APC with an infantry for supplying those.

With Andy, build Mechs and Indirects, but also the occasional Md. Tank. Keep your Missiles safe at all costs. Also, spread your units so Grit gets the Meteor instead of Sami or Andy.

About day thirty, I managed to give Andy, Grit and Sami all three one of "Andy's" four cities, while Andy gets two. Sami's Mechs should be already in the mountains next to Sturm. It's time to advance with both Andy and Sami. Sami should move her Mechs all west, together with a pair of Fighters. The Indirects are handy to keep alive, with an Md. Tank in front of them on the road.

Keep rolling, send Grits Indirects Army north, while also spreading this. He should have just only a few attacking units; you have to spend most of your funds in building Bombers and infantry to distract Sturms Meteor. Also, keep in mind Hyper Repair and Double Time could be very useful if used right.
About day forty, you could build whatever you wan't and send it north, especially with Andy and Sami.

If Andy gets the Meteor in his face early, you'd better to start over again. I also get a crappy score, because I did it in forty-six days, by HQ Capture and a timed Double Time at day forty-five. Sami destroyed Sturms units instead of Andy and that won't work if you want a high score.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:36 am

See, that's why I suggest letting Sturm have the airport. It speeds things up a lot, and makes things easier if you want a high score.

Although if you ended up with Sami on your team, then it's a sign score isn't one of your priorities. Still, you may very well want a faster win as opposed to taking 46 days.
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:17 am

It won't matter. I'd tried, and I did it in forty days. The difference is six days, but, I had a better start, even with Andy's Missile destroyed early. But not THAT early, so I could position two of Grits Missiles to destroy the planes build on the airport.
However, I made a better capture phase. The airport won't matter. The AI rather build Md. Tanks than Bombers, once he pointed out the planes and copters build there should tumble out of the sky within moments... Sometimes a B-copter, but after two air units getting destroyed, he didn't build anymore on that airport... After eight days of building nothing at the airport, I decided to capture the airport, for the extra funds. I didn't use it, until I find the need for some fighters about day thirty.
I captured the flanking airports just about ten days earlier and that's... a lot. I think THAT's the difference, and not the airport. However, it could still help because you'd have to choose: Capture the City, OR the airport. The city is the better choice, due to the costs of air units... and if Grit's Missiles are positioned right, you will annihilate any air unit build there. Don't place Grits other Indirects near the Missiles, keep those near the HQ. Grit shouldn't build much until the end. He spends most of his money on repairs.

This time I send a Rocket to help Andy.
I also build massive amounts of Mechs with Andy. Hyper Repair can easily warrant the damage done to them in counterattacks, except if you attack Sturms Md. Tanks with them... But Mechs will be the best way to destroy these... but it means a BAD Technique rating.

It means, a good capture phase, say, the first ten days, are more important than anything else.

In the first ten days you should have captured anything south of the river, except the airport near Andy, and the four cities above Andy. I Captured the base above Grit at day ten, and the base above Sami at day eight. NEVER build APC's with Sami or Grit. Then Sturm will send Medium tanks to them, screwing their capturing phase (and Grit's Missiles in the progress), and if you lose Andy's Anti-Air Missiles after that, you've already lost!
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:02 pm

Well, he doesn't start churning out the bombers right away, but once he starts, he'll usually keep it up. I think it helps if you eliminate all his existing bombers, (and other air units too?) rather than leaving him with a 1 HP one to sit on his airport.
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:23 pm

Dragon Fogel wrote:Well, he doesn't start churning out the bombers right away, but once he starts, he'll usually keep it up. I think it helps if you eliminate all his existing bombers, (and other air units too?) rather than leaving him with a 1 HP one to sit on his airport.
That's the point; after two destroyed air units the AI started massing out Md. Tanks, and the air units being build were build at the airports near his HQ; and not at the airport near Andy.

It's always possible to try this, but the AI might be smart enough to not build in your Indirect Range.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:32 am

Try two anti-airs instead? The first time I did this was on AC, where it happened more or less by accident, but I was able to use anti-airs to keep him building bombers. Perhaps using those instead of missiles will make him more likely to build bombers there.

Honestly, this hasn't been tested much - there's not a lot of AW1 play these days. So I can't say for sure how to make the best use of it. But when you get it to work, it helps a *lot*.
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Don't call me "Dragon".

WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:56 pm

Anti-airs won't matter. The AI won't build air units if not necessary. If he points out the air unit will be destroyed in one turn, the AI won't build it. Same goes up for navy units, but that is not important on this map. The AI should go Medium Tanks instead... Have many Mechs and Indirects ready to handle these, including a few Md.Tanks.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:12 am

The AI generally isn't smart enough to avoid building units that will be immediately destroyed. Nothing I've seen suggests air units are any exception to this rule - I've gotten this strategy to work myself, after all.

If Sturm kept building bombers in his base when he *did* build them, I'm inclined to think that was just bad luck, and not the AI being uncharacteristically smart.

Edit: And if you're right, or at least it's a factor in the AI's decision-making process, you could increase your odds by putting fighters in range of the airports in his main base. The AW1 AI definitely isn't smart enough to tell the difference between a threatened airport where it can retaliate and a threatened airport where it can't.
Dragon Fogel,
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Don't call me "Dragon".

WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt
AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

ThunderWalker
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:26 am

Dragon Fogel wrote:The AI generally isn't smart enough to avoid building units that will be immediately destroyed. Nothing I've seen suggests air units are any exception to this rule - I've gotten this strategy to work myself, after all.

If Sturm kept building bombers in his base when he *did* build them, I'm inclined to think that was just bad luck, and not the AI being uncharacteristically smart.
Well, it shouldn't be the first time. And also not the last, because the AI also didn't in the Great Sea Battle. He build the air units behind the pipe instead of in front (all other airports were in Cruiser and Missile range). The same goes for Sea Units.

Lets see. The AI isn't all that stupid. See if the AW I AI bug, the "I-attack-APC-always-bug, is fixed too :P . In non FoW, I place an APC somewhere, backed up by a pair of artilleries, but also with a second attack possibility (a rocket).

Edit:
He chose the APC, so the bug isn't fixed. If it should, I should really search to the program what makes the AI think about strategies in my strategygames.
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by Dragon Fogel » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:41 am

If we're bringing up AW2, I have personally gotten *great* results on Dire Range in that game by putting a missile in range to attack Colin's west airport.

He builds bombers or fighters there, where I can destroy them immediately in one attack, at least two-thirds of the time. If he doesn't, I usually can get him to with only a little reloading.
Dragon Fogel,
Marquis Elmdor's Arch-Nemesis

Don't call me "Dragon".

WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt
AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

ThunderWalker
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Re: EFFF STURM!

Post by ThunderWalker » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:52 am

Dragon Fogel wrote:If we're bringing up AW2, I have personally gotten *great* results on Dire Range in that game by putting a missile in range to attack Colin's west airport.

He builds bombers or fighters there, where I can destroy them immediately in one attack, at least two-thirds of the time. If he doesn't, I usually can get him to with only a little reloading.
But I'd rather not try. Last time I did that, on the SAME map, the AI builds air units farther away, and he crushed my Missile unit with a pair of B-copters. The Anti-Airs were moved away to take care of a Bomber coming from another direction.

The tricks which usually work won't work at my PC due to things like this. Even lures fail on AW 2, or, better said, they work once. The second time the AI retreats or goes air units - these take priority to AA units instead of the rockets. Chokes are even worse. The AI decides to flood me with Mechs instead >.< Also, Sami, Max, Eagle, Drake, Sensei and Grit have something overwriting their AI's, so any usual strategy on those War Room maps will fail. Especially the FAQ ones :geshrug:
Even Duo Falls is nasty due to the direct-only strategy the AI uses. And no, you can't drain the AI's funds with a Missile or pair of Anti Airs next to that captured airport >.<
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