CCO Dawn

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:35 pm

:bm: Dawn
Bio: Dawn was born in a cold forest cottage within Blue Moon to a neglectful mother and abusive father. Every night he'd come home to beat the two after drinking heavily. Often she would be cut and bruised, unable to move. Her mother took no notice. Over time, though, Dawn grew tougher and more vengeful. Her childhood would not go unavenged.

In he very early teens, her home was still isolated and abusive. But Dawn was much stronger in her body and mind. In short, she stabbed her father in his sleep and left, running as far as possible. The trees were easy to hide in in the Blue Moon winter. Everything was white.

The cold snow was unforgiving, and her body was pretty ravaged, but she pressed on until finding a city which she snuck into places to sleep. Food was taken and anything else as necessary. Communication was hardly an ability of hers in any kind sense. Though she certainly had a knack for persuasion. . .which is where her CO experience comes in.

A new CO, not quite done with training, was in the city with an army practicing when an elite band of pirates showed up on the shore looking for a battle. The CO-in-training got scared and fled. The army was a bit in disarray. Not wanting to lose her pseudohome, Dawn rose to the task and commanded attention from the army. Channeling her childhood into sheer aggression, no soldier dared disobey, especially seeing she had already stolen a weapon.

Her ability was majestic and the pirates were destroyed beyond hope of surivival. The battalion stuck with her as more bands were coming across Blue Moon. This continued until Olaf found out what was happening. Grit saw her as useful for protection and Olaf was hard-pressed to argue. Thus Dawn took on responsibilities of a CO and eventually was officially given the title of a BM CO.

:hit: Eliminating the enemy
:miss: Abuse

:skill: Commanding powers pull more out of all her units. All units are 130/90. Air and naval are 125/90. Due to her emotional instability, an anger outburst will cause any unit taking 7 damage at once to die instantly.

:smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar:
:power: Escape - All units' movement become 150% of normal.
"Move!"
"Never again."

:super: Infuriation - All units increase to 250/150, but taking damage will result in destruction.
"Kill them all."
"Leave not a corpse."

Victory: ". . ."
Last edited by Ihmisen on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Xenesis » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:55 pm

So basically if you fail a luck roll the unit explodes?
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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Airnike
Rank: The red in a world of black and white

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Airnike » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:30 pm

It seems.

Back to the CO.
Day-to-day: 130% offense and 3 movement for mechs means brokeness. Air and sea units go over Eagle and Drake in offense (Stupidity!) at the cost of defense. And her team-destroying ability can make her win a 1-on-3 map with each army on par.
The luck roll doesn't balance it all, because it makes any player favor cheaper units, and especially mechs, due to the overpoweredness.
CO Power: 6 stars, +3 movement, movement cost on properties=0. "OMG MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED!", could I say. Sidewinder and Trail of Woe only give +2 for 5 stars. Not to mention now, Mechs outrange tanks of any kind.
Super CO Power: Even more unbalance. Insane attack (OHKOing mechs especially, since this is the unit we'll be playing with) and triple self-destruct probability.

Well, spam mechs and you have 90% chances to win. It's a no-no, the Incarnation of Unbalance.
Grasp the truth! Hold it high!
Thrust your fist, that's how you're supposed to use it!
You must've heard it, go!
Don't be afraid to look yourself in the eye!
Big Blast Sonic, that's my heart beat anew!
—from Big Blast Sonic

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:43 pm

Would these fix her?
-Remove mech bonus movement
-Increase SD chance to 20%
-Change D2D stats to 130/80
-COP is 7 stars
-SCOP is 8 stars, and SD is 50%

OR(instead of those):
-increase Mech cost to 12k. Thus making them unspammable.

User avatar
deemo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by deemo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:50 pm

um you do realize the grimm in awds has 130/80 and no self-destruct function and he's not that great so basically she's uber low with those changes

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:28 pm

^I figured as much, but apparently Dawn is broken without?

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RockNRoll.Sturm
Rank: IMassVikings.200
Location: X, Y, Z, T

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by RockNRoll.Sturm » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:43 pm

Uh where exactly are you going with Dawn :( Is it just units that hit hard but also run the chance of killing themselves? Like Deemo mentioned, why would I use her over Grimm? Why would YOU use Dawn over Grimm?
O_O

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:53 pm

I was trying to make a very power CO with a weakness of occasional self-destruct.
In response to Ainiku, then, the attack bonus at the cost of defense wouldn't be automatically broken since Grimm isn't.
The 10% SD chance is crippling enough that having a cheaper COP wouldn't break her and SCOP might be broken, though 250 isn't *too* high considering the risk.
And broken is generally uncounterable, which is false. You say the best unit is a mech, which in this case has 3 movement. Direct vehicles will still get first strike and infantry are still equal. Biggest difference is arties are passable if setup just right and opponent doesn't even attempt to do anything. (and if mechs gain a thousand or two in cost they won't be the economically powerful anyway)

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deemo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by deemo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:52 pm

Ihmisen wrote: And broken is generally uncounterable, which is false.
Broken does not always mean it is uncounterable, however, uncounterable usually means it's broken.
You say the best unit is a mech, which in this case has 3 movement. Direct vehicles will still get first strike and infantry are still equal. Biggest difference is arties are passable if setup just right and opponent doesn't even attempt to do anything. (and if mechs gain a thousand or two in cost they won't be the economically powerful anyway)
Sure, direct vehicles will get the first strike. But every vehicle except the recon costs at least 2x that of a mech. The next mech is just gonna trash it. Think about the COP. +3 movement? That is a 200% movement boost for the mech, which is huge. Not to mention any cities you might pass over. You could have 8 or 9 MP mechs simply because cities are usually close together

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RockNRoll.Sturm
Rank: IMassVikings.200
Location: X, Y, Z, T

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by RockNRoll.Sturm » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:43 am

Ihmisen wrote:I was trying to make a very power CO with a weakness of occasional self-destruct.
I'm sorry but that sounds like a terrible idea. I'm not sure how that would be fun, and I'm also not sure how that brings anything interesting to the table. Random elements can be tolerated, but not if they're so extreme that the CCO can potentially kill herself.

Is the SD weakness what you're specifically designing around? Or a CCO that can be very strong but is also exploitable?
O_O

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Sven

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:16 pm

10% chance of losing your first vehicle once it attacks is retarded. I mean that in the most polite way possible. It's not a fun mechanic.

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:38 am

RockNRoll.Sturm wrote:
Ihmisen wrote:I was trying to make a very power CO with a weakness of occasional self-destruct.
I'm sorry but that sounds like a terrible idea. I'm not sure how that would be fun, and I'm also not sure how that brings anything interesting to the table. Random elements can be tolerated, but not if they're so extreme that the CCO can potentially kill herself.

Is the SD weakness what you're specifically designing around? Or a CCO that can be very strong but is also exploitable?
Was aiming for a very strong CO that occasionally has a 'breakdown'. SD seemed to be the only thing strong enough to warrant high stats. The interest that would be brought is how considering the potential for SD could make certain moves more or less viable. ('That MIGHT explode, i can't risk it...')
Broken does not always mean it is uncounterable
Example? (Sorry, I'm not seeing where that is the case)

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Airnike
Rank: The red in a world of black and white

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Airnike » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:44 am

Ihmisen wrote:Was aiming for a very strong CO that occasionally has a 'breakdown'. SD seemed to be the only thing strong enough to warrant high stats. The interest that would be brought is how considering the potential for SD could make certain moves more or less viable. ('That MIGHT explode, i can't risk it...')
With D2D high stats comes unbalance. Look at Kanbei.
Ihmisen wrote:
Broken does not always mean it is uncounterable
Example? (Sorry, I'm not seeing where that is the case)
Grit is considered broken (correct me if I'm wrong) but in open terrain he is wide open to punishment, even by Max.
And indirects having terrain difficulties can disadvantage him against air units if the map is forested even a little.
Grasp the truth! Hold it high!
Thrust your fist, that's how you're supposed to use it!
You must've heard it, go!
Don't be afraid to look yourself in the eye!
Big Blast Sonic, that's my heart beat anew!
—from Big Blast Sonic

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monkymeet
Rank: Bitch
3DS Code: 3480-3067-3928

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by monkymeet » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:02 am

grit is worst CO
imageshack swallowed up my sig. This is a placeholder.

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deemo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by deemo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:37 pm

monkymeet wrote:grit is worst CO
this isn't in awds
he still reigns in aw2 (as far as i know)

PKNintendo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by PKNintendo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:33 pm

Consider:

-Removing the self destruct gimmick altogether.
-All units have 120/100 stats on all units but with -10 constant bad luck.
-Remove the mech movement bonus
-COP 3 movement > 2 movement (3 movement is ridiculous anyway way you slice it)
-SCOP 250 / 110 > 170/110

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Xenesis » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:03 pm

Eh, you kind of have to think more about what the actual numbers give you. 110 firepower is not as great as it looks as all it does is take out the chance of random fail from a few matchups (although it does allow 55% matchups to go 9-3 once in a blue moon)

190 firepower for example will give you OHKs in 55% Matchups for example. 170 won't. 250 will let 40% matchups OHK, for example.

+3 movement will let you do uh, a lot.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:06 pm

Edited:

-Took out team deduction. Could be broken in 3-on-1 matches and brings little to table.
-Took out mechs' extra mp. Too much power there.
-Changed COP so it no longer makes cities cost 0 mp.
-Changed COP from +3 mp to 150% mp. Mechs won't become cheaper tanks, but higher movement pieces still get a movement bonus worth the cost.
-Took SCOP down to 200/100.

I plan on replacing the SD chance with something less luck-based, but find straight-up removal will destroy the concept(high power with occasional breakdown). I left it up for now because something will prolly come to me that works. Prolly something that will be exploitable and certain, but hard to count on. (Maybe occasional self-attack instead?)
(And as i typed Xenesis posted and i feel maybe a 250/100 SCOP is better)
With D2D high stats comes unbalance. Look at Kanbei.
Kanbei has high defense making him hard to pass and an SCOP that makes him powerful and invincible. Dawn is powerful and fragile.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Xenesis » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 pm

Handy dandy chart:

150% Movement:

2 to 3 +1
3 to 4 +1
4 to 6 +2
5 to 7 +2
6 to 9 +3
7 to 10 +3
8 to 12 +4
9 to 13 +4
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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Airnike
Rank: The red in a world of black and white

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Airnike » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:10 am

And now, instead of a mechspam CO, we have a tankspam CO (9 movement for tanks and AAs, along with copters and low-priced units with 6 movement).
So, basically, her COP is more powerful than Sidewinder. And don't forget her 130% offense which makes it kinda broken.
Grasp the truth! Hold it high!
Thrust your fist, that's how you're supposed to use it!
You must've heard it, go!
Don't be afraid to look yourself in the eye!
Big Blast Sonic, that's my heart beat anew!
—from Big Blast Sonic

User avatar
Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:19 am

It's also 3 times the cost of Sidewinder.

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deemo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by deemo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:09 am

Ihmisen wrote:It's also 3 times the cost of Sidewinder.
no it's not. you have your powers mixed up. sideslip gives +1 for two stars and sidewinder gives +2 for five stars. it's only 20% more than the cost of sidewinder. derp.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Xenesis » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:52 am

As is, I would never use this CO's Super Power.

For practically the same price you get +a lot movement coupled to solid D2D stats compared to the ability to OHK damn near everything, but you lose a third of your army when you attack anyhow.

Also, out of curiousity is there any particular reason that Air/naval is 125% while the rest is 130%?

Edit: Before I forget, there are other ways to cripple an army without it being downright unrecoverable like self-destruction. Stuff like a loss of all fuel on a ground unit, loss of ammo, stunning for a turn or something. You could have quite a large tactical downside without it being so...permanent if you fail a luckroll.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:21 pm

@Deemo-Whoops. Still more expensive, though.

@Xenesis-I see what you're saying. Should I flip the powers and add another star for SCOP(currently COP)?
Originally the difference of units D2D was because it fit her theme of being an abused runaway a bit more because of some land connection. I meant to edit that out earlier though.
Hmm...thank you, I never thought of that. I'm still trying to figure out something better than a luckroll but anything certain seems exploitable. Dropping all fuel and ammo might be worthwhile, except air and naval units would still end up dead(though maybe it'd just be justified as her being weaker off-ground)

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deemo

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by deemo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:45 pm

Ihmisen wrote:@Deemo-Whoops. Still more expensive, though.
yes, but barely. i don't see your point.

also you need to clarify if the self destruct thing is only activated by battles started by her or any battles. if it's the former then the opponent can't really....exploit it like you want and if it's the latter then hopefully you see why this co can be beaten even only by using infantry and how explosions are a bad idea

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by Ihmisen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:44 pm

Overhaul Edit:
-Added much more bio.
-Got rid of SD for a reliable breakdown. Now her units die if 7 damage is taken. 55% is one of the most common damage done, so 6 would be too bad, but 7 isn't seen as often, but enough it's a real weakness.
-COP is the same. While it may give a fair bit of power to tanks(3 MP), it's six stars. It's not really unbalanced compared to Sidewinder because it's more expensive and without Adder's faster charging, much harder to spam. Plus Sideslip is more used than SW, so it can't be too overpowered.
-Made SCOP have higher attack and defense, but a weakness changed to if a single hit is taken. Cost is meant to have it as a parallel to the COP. 250 attack allows a few more OHKOs and the 150 defense is to knock a few enemy units under the 1 damage bar. (Wouldn't be surprised if this needed tweaking, but idea is down)

JSlayerXero

Re: CCO Dawn

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:06 am

Dawn is a very interesting concept, I'll give you that. Though the execution is a little, interesting. But never mind that, time for a rate.

Name: 4/5
Dawn is a rather normal name. So 3 points right there. How this relate to her theme is beyond me though. Maybe pain is dawning?

Bio: 10/10
Very interesting. Bad childhood, survivor, and eventually rose to power. Very nice. I actually like that story, it fits her.

Quotes: 4/5
Her COP quotes and SCOP quotes fit the powers which is nice. But why is she speechless in her victory quote?

Creative Total: 18/20 :s:
Very creative, I thoroughly enjoyed her bio. Could be better, but could be a whole lot worse.

:skill: D2D: 28/40
I have never played AWDS as of now, but I know for a fact her stats are way too close to Grimm's. Her weaker non-land units are okay, but what?! Even if she is adept at land, 125/90 vs. 130/90 is barely noticeable. Seriously. Whether this was on purpose or not, I don't know. Also, since 7 damage at once is common in some cases, she'll lose units a lot if the opponent has favorable units. But if not then go for it! Both over and underpowered, in different situations.

:power: COP: 10/20
Lots of extra movement for fighters and recon. And plenty for tanks. Also, Adder has been proven to not charge faster, just he has really small CO bars. Numbers are interesting. Soldiers obtain essentially Sideslip. Rockets, MIssiles, MD Tanks, and any thing I missed that are 4-5 movement gain essentially Sidewinder for one more star. And everything Above gets+ 3 except for recon and fighters that gain an impressive +4. Soldiers don't gain much, but if transported they go a ways. Somewhat fitting, though bonuses are spread out. Movement is a powerful thing mind you. Though this does justify her 6 stars.
Side note, even Eagle's Air Force would fear 13 movement fighters at 135/100 stats, seriously.

:super: SCOP: 10/20
Wow, just, wow. 40% match-ups OHKO, which is very powerful. But if 1 HP damage is taken they die? So it's either hit-or-miss, or is it deal **** loads of damage, die, and let other units finish it off? High defense prevents lower HP units from doing this though. I honestly think this is overpowered. Mind you I can't hack this at the moment so I'd have to actually see it for myself, but guessing from numbers, this can be a big anti-meat wall ability. But you could also go in, deal loads of damage, unit you used dies if it's a good counter, which opens up access for other units. This is either hit-or-miss as this does leave them open. Heck, luck roll allow, Infantry can kill Dawn's Neotanks. Main issue is, despite fitting her character, completely unrelated to her COP. Also, why is that a 1 Star SCOP? If she's supposed to be able to use them at about the same time, sure, it works. But if not, then this is actually only slightly more expensive than most 6 star SCOPs.

Technical Total: 48/80 :c:
Not bad. Her D2D can be situational, which isn't too bad. Her COP is good, but somewhat lop-sided in that recon and Fighters move way too much. Fighter's more-so as recons need road for good movement. But a recon can still move 6 spaces on all plains, and 4 through all woods. And even worse many things move +3 for only one star more than Sidewinder. But it is somewhat balanced by the lower movement for other units. Her SCOP is unrelated to her COP, not that too bad seeing as Rachel from AWDS is likewise. But I would need to play this as a hack in order to really see if it's broken, simply overpowered, or situational. Also, I still ask, should she be able to use powers at nigh the same time when they're charged?

Overall Total: 66/100 :b:
Good bio, okay name, quotes fit, but her victory quote... As far as technical goes, D2D is situational if your just staring at numbers. If she has worse units, she can die easily. Andy's full HP Neotank Vs Dawn's Infantry on mountains is still 7 HP damage to Dawn's Infantry, and thus, OHKO. If they are more or less even then Dawn is a practically Grimm with more defense. Her COP gives small movement boost to that which moves slow, and large movement boost to those which move fast. Seeing as that's 60% or more of the units, yeeeah. Her COP bar is okay, but her SCOP is almost instantly usable afterwards. And I have no clue how this WOULD play out as I can't hack AW-anything at the moment. But again, How is her SCOP related to her COP? Her SCOP is rather situational, I think, but it's just, wow. I can't say enough about how strange it is when put to use. Though not great, not horrible either.

:brank:

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