CCO Rex

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare
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CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:41 pm

:yc: Rex
Bio: Grew up in a poor village of Yellow Comet. Was always a witty child and liked to play in the junkyard. He learned to use old broken things to great effect. After an attack on his village, causing its destruction, he saw the need for an army. He contacted Kanbei who gave him minor authority over the region.
:hit: Turning stuff into stuff
:miss: The rich village
:skill: Kanbei gives him his old broken units, thus reducing all unit prices, except footsoldiers, to zero. Units available include any with the cost of (cities owned/total cities*56,000), so say if he has 5 cities on a map with 10, he can build anything up to a normal cost of 14k. Footsoldiers are always available, cost allowing. Being broken units, they all come at 5 HP and bent up weapons with used armour give a 85/85 spread. Also, no two of the same unit may be produced on a turn. Due to bad economic skills, his income is also only 25%. The critical conditions he's repaired them from also prevents joining units to above 6 HP, and all extra HP that would be turned into money for more units is given to the homeless(not Rex).
:smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: :bigstar: :bigstar:
:power: Soldier Scavenge - Allows soldiers to be produced for free for the duration of the turn at 5 HP.
"Let's see who can still fight."
"For our village!"
:super: Junk Repair - 3HP Mass Healing.
"I am here to claim my land."
"You can't keep me away forever."
"Keep in mind what you have heard today."

Victory: "Victory in a pinch."
Last edited by Ihmisen on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

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RockNRoll.Sturm
Rank: IMassVikings.200
Location: X, Y, Z, T

Re: CCO Rex

Postby RockNRoll.Sturm » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:13 pm

No weird random elements please (regarding 3-6HP luck draw) :(

I see that foot soldiers don't have reduced price. I'm assuming that applies to both Infantry and Mech Infantry? Are they suffering from the 5HP penalty as well?

Being unable to produce more than one unit per turn is too radical, it makes him suck too much at capturing because he can't deploy infantry as quickly as other COs.

But having no cost for non-infantry units is even more radical and in the other direction; he basically gets free suicide damage all the time and can even use high power units when they're not supposed to be available.

Let's consider Spann Island for AWDS as an example. First day Rex makes one Infantry and one Mega Tank on the far right base, second day the Infantry and Mega Tank drain his funds because of repairs but now he has a 7HP Infantry (or full HP if the Infantry doesn't have the 5HP penalty) and a 7HP Mega Tank. He can send the Mega Tank off to kill off infantry en masse, then make another Mega Tank that day, and the day after, and the day after, and so forth...

It's not a strong analogy because Spann Island favors you to begin with, but on other maps which are normally balanced with careful spending and obstructive terrain in mind, Rex breaks those maps because he can throw a free Recon or Neo Tank at his enemies each day and delay capture, so it won't matter how bad he is at capturing. Rex is pretty much favored on any map where he can send units at his enemies without having to capture a property first.

And I kind of assumed AWDS earlier but... is Rex designed for AW2 or AWDS? AW2 charging is based off of the unit's cost, so if literally only your infantry units have any cost then the opponent can attack your other units without charging you. But in AWDS each unit type has its own charge value, so not only do you get free suicide damage, you also charge for free because your suicide units were free to begin with.
O_O

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Ihmisen
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:23 pm

Okay, no random element. Thought it'd be more "realstic" (taking Kanbei's nonsymmetrical broken units)

Yes, both infantry and mechs are full price. They don't suffer the HP penalty because of that (and because of how that would make capturing near impossible)

One unit *of each type* per turn. Prevents neotank spam.

Essentially he'll have a good start, having the same benefits as Colin in the early game, but the weaker capturing and less strength later on means the opponent can break through. (especially since a lot of units can be OHKO'd if at 5 HP)

AW2 CO, so no megatank. Also, somehow in my mind playing it out I forgot repairs do happen the turn after deployed. *Changes to 3 HP start so they end up at 5 HP at 20% of the cost(but at 75% income, it'll even out to about 35%. Not as cheap put that way). He is a lot better on small maps with the beginning phase, but then a quick-moving opponent could go straight at his bases and knock down the units before the repairs.

Although he can throw cheap units at the enemy, the enemy could easily save up a turn of spending and get a tank (or arty or just keep on getting mechs) that could overpower Rex's units. The game would turn more into a rushing match at the start, but it's not uncounterable.

I didn't consider that factor, considering he's for AW2. Assumed the units would count at full cost (since repairs are still full cost). And though he charges quickly, his COP doesn't do much for him and six stars is still six stars for his SCOP(cheap, but pricey for what it is)

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deemo
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby deemo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:46 pm

RockNRoll.Sturm wrote:And I kind of assumed AWDS earlier but... is Rex designed for AW2 or AWDS? AW2 charging is based off of the unit's cost, so if literally only your infantry units have any cost then the opponent can attack your other units without charging you.


Uh, no. Charging is based off of the unit's normal cost, not any modifiers. Kanbei does not charge faster and Colin does not charge slower.

This CO is horribly, horribly broken.

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RockNRoll.Sturm
Rank: IMassVikings.200
Location: X, Y, Z, T

Re: CCO Rex

Postby RockNRoll.Sturm » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:18 am

Ihmisen wrote:One unit *of each type* per turn. Prevents neotank spam.

It... still doesn't matter. I can have a 5HP Neo Tank and 5HP Recon charge the enemy by day 2, maybe I'll throw in a 5HP Md Tank and 5HP Tank too if I have enough starting bases.

That is insane.

Ihmisen wrote:Essentially he'll have a good start, having the same benefits as Colin in the early game, but the weaker capturing and less strength later on means the opponent can break through. (especially since a lot of units can be OHKO'd if at 5 HP)

Nononono, his bonuses are way more extreme than Colin's benefits for early game. Unless Rex is completely blocked off from the opponent early on (which probably doesn't happen on most maps), he'll just rush infinitely. And then, as you said, if the game somehow reaches the later phases then Rex just loses.

Doesn't Rex seem too extreme? Absolutely crush the enemy early game, or absolutely get crushed outside of it. With the exception of Grit (and maybe Grimm), other COs don't have such a narrow window of viability.

Ihmisen wrote:Although he can throw cheap units at the enemy, the enemy could easily save up a turn of spending and get a tank (or arty or just keep on getting mechs) that could overpower Rex's units. The game would turn more into a rushing match at the start, but it's not uncounterable.

What reliably stops a 5HP Neo Tank early game, when you've only got about 4 properties? What reliably stops a stream of 5HP Neo Tanks?

deemo wrote:
RockNRoll.Sturm wrote:And I kind of assumed AWDS earlier but... is Rex designed for AW2 or AWDS? AW2 charging is based off of the unit's cost, so if literally only your infantry units have any cost then the opponent can attack your other units without charging you.


Uh, no. Charging is based off of the unit's normal cost, not any modifiers. Kanbei does not charge faster and Colin does not charge slower.

This CO is horribly, horribly broken.

Really now? I've read research a long time ago that said otherwise.

But in any case, yeah Rex breaks the game very hard =[
O_O

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Xenesis » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:03 pm

deemo wrote:Uh, no. Charging is based off of the unit's normal cost, not any modifiers. Kanbei does not charge faster and Colin does not charge slower.


In AW2 (U):

Function at 0x0842C9C

Code: Select all

08042C9C B570     push    {r4-r6,r14}                                  ;8
08042C9E 1C04     mov     r4,r0                                        ;2
08042CA0 1C0D     mov     r5,r1                                        ;2
08042CA2 1C28     mov     r0,r5                                        ;2
08042CA4 F000FB98 bl      #0x80433D8                                   ;10
08042CA8 1C06     mov     r6,r0                                        ;2
08042CAA 4809     ldr     r0,=#0x8499598                               ;9
08042CAC 6800     ldr     r0,[r0]                                      ;4
08042CAE 0121     lsl     r1,r4,#0x4                                   ;2
08042CB0 1B09     sub     r1,r1,r4                                     ;2
08042CB2 0089     lsl     r1,r1,#0x2                                   ;2
08042CB4 1809     add     r1,r1,r0                                     ;2
08042CB6 7F48     ldrb    r0,[r1,#0x1D]                                ;4
08042CB8 7F89     ldrb    r1,[r1,#0x1E]                                ;4
08042CBA 1C2A     mov     r2,r5                                        ;2
08042CBC F000FAD8 bl      #0x8043270                                   ;10
08042CC0 3064     add     r0,#0x64                                     ;2
08042CC2 4370     mul     r0,r6                                        ;5
08042CC4 2164     mov     r1,#0x64                                     ;2
08042CC6 F047FEF1 bl      #0x808AAAC                                   ;10
08042CCA BC70     pop     {r4-r6}                                      ;17
08042CCC BC02     pop     {r1}                                         ;9
08042CCE 4708     bx      r1                                           ;8


This subroutine is a standard function that calculates how much a particular CO's unit costs.

It is ran whenever an attack is made between units. This is the same function that is ran whenever a property repairs a unit or you purchase a new one. It launches three subroutines. (the bl instructions). The first grabs the cost for 1HP of the unit. The second grabs the cost modifier of the CO that the unit belongs to. The third adjusts the cost.

This is then used later to update both CO's power bars.

Killing Kanbei's units will give you more change. Killing Colin's will give you less.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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DxDyDzD
Rank: Blue Bomber
Location: War Room

Re: CCO Rex

Postby DxDyDzD » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:43 pm

lol broken

1) Why does this CO even need to capture cities if all but two of his units are free? All you need is 2 Infantry to grab a base and airport.
2) If you're into rushing strategies, consider this. Assume a 2 base 1 HQ map:
D1: Build Md, Neo.
D2: Move units off bases, build Md and Neo.
D3: Join units ftw.
What can stave off (essentially) a Day 2 Md+Neo build?
3) Grit is said to have Rockets for 6000G. This CO has Rockets for 0G. Even if you factor in the 2 turns of production needed to boost the Rockets to full potential, he's still comparable to a broken CO.

Instead of his units starting at X HP, you should give him X*10/X*10 stats and full HP to avoid join abuse. But then, he would be unable to score OHKOs on Infantry to break meatwalls...
Also, think about whether you would rather have an Infantry for 1000G, Mech for 3000G or a 5HP Md/Neo for 0G every turn. If it's obvious that you'd take the Md/Neo then you need to nerf the HP that it starts out with.

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Airnike
Rank: doing absolutely nothing
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Airnike » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:54 pm

This CO deserves the Hall of Fail for his brokeness. Not really much more to say about that.
MysteriousLad be like:
Oh hello, I am MysteriousLad.
Do you know when I was an OP player? When I wasn't in WWN and massclaims were legit good? Yea I miss the days I could force town to claim, rout out the mafia, and win the game for free day 3. Sometimes without being killed!
Senpai HPD notices me everyday when I'm town, do no scum play, and still get lynched day 1.
Anyway, it's time to go and ask people to claim and go lynch those who don't with my high-skill OP role.
I am MysteriousLad.

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Ihmisen
Rank: Nightmare
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:19 pm

EDIT:
-Fixed unforeseen brokenness in joining with a limit.
-Nerfed a bit with 85/85 stats.
-Made repairs and infantry essentially 4 times the normal cost, meaning properties are worthwhile and capturing isn't a pure killfest.
-Made (S)COP 1 star more expensive.
-Capturing would be worthwhile for healing and defense and stopping enemy income in the battlefield.

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deemo
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby deemo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:01 am

0 cost units is still broken

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Ihmisen
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:23 pm

Edit-Deployed units are random.

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deemo
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby deemo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:41 pm

maybe you could just, i dunno, change the 0 cost factor
i mean making it random is just really really dumb

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Ihmisen
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:40 pm

The zero cost factor is pretty much the central idea. I don't know what i could change it to...

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deemo
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby deemo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:57 pm

Ihmisen wrote:The zero cost factor is pretty much the central idea. I don't know what i could change it to...

zero cost doesn't work in advance wars

EDIT: well, you COULD get it to work as a cop or preferably scop.

and of course this is all just if you want it to be balanced. if you want to be purposely overpowered, then go ahead

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Ihmisen
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Ihmisen » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:55 am

Edit: Added fix to make it so it takes awhile to get high tier units AND so there's a need for cities.

JSlayerXero

Re: CCO Rex

Postby JSlayerXero » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:44 am

Ihmisen wrote:(cities owned/total cities*56,000), so say if he has 5 cities on a map with 10, he can build anything up to a normal cost of 14k.


5/10 = 1/2

56,000/2 = 28,000

Do your math right. Unless you squared it beforehand and didn't write it down.

Also, if you did square it, vs. not. On a map with 30 cities, and he has 6.

6/30 = 1/5

1/5 * 1/5 = 1/25

56,000/25 = 2,240

56,000/5 = 11,200

Yeah, big difference

And, review. Granted, I'd probably only qualify for junior rater, but it's better than nothing.

Name: 3/5
Good name, can see real people running around with that name. But, no relation to his skills.

Bio: 8/10
Pretty good, a little shallow, but not that bad otherwise.

Quotes: 4/5
These aren't bad. Ar least you tried.

Creative total: 15/20 :a:
This is nice, needs a tune up, but that's all. Besides, 5 points won't prevent an :s: rank. Yet.

Now for the "fun" stuff to rate...

:skill: D2D: 25/40
O.O :shock: WOW. Free units? This is broken if not capped. But at least you made a formula for this. You did your math wrong or forgot to mention something, but it's good anyways. Looking at the formula, 56K is odd at first, but since that's double B-Ship cost, that means you need half the board. Free units, and max of 6 HP is odd. The 25% income will hurt early on seeing as how you need infantry. On maps with only bases, you will only have one out, when others have 3 or 4. But if you can survive to conquer half the map. Neotanks on EVERY TURN. Seems broken, but you'll need every last one seeing as how the max HP is 6. And to further add to the train-wreck, 85/85. Weakened, free units, at 85/85. And to top this ice-cream sundae, only one of one unit per turn. Question, does this affect soldiers? Just, wow. I can't say if this is weak, or balanced. Kudos for confusing me. [/scarcasm]

:power: COP: 12/20
Erm. Free Soldiers, okay. Still wondering if they're affect by one per turn rule you set down. Other than that, the only this it does is give the default +10/+10. This does put units and 95/95, which isn't that bad. His COP is underwhelming and pricey. Unless you have bases on half the map, and even then, one unit rule possibly? Not bad, but underwhelming for a 4* COP. You can disagree, but I say this deserves 2 stars, 3 at most.

:super: SCOP: 10/20
Okay, 3 HP mass healing... Is that it? Units are 95/95, okay, fine. But 3 HP mass healing coupled with only the standard boost is barely worth more than Hyper Repair. Dude, overpriced. I'd say it's only worth being 3 stars above your COP. Only issue is if you do that, you have Adder's bar, which, isn't the greatest thing, but if it works, use it.

Technical total: 52/80 :b:
You have overpriced powers, and a bad balance issue on D2D. Units that can only achieve 6 HP means they operate at 60% or less. Coupled with 85/85, and your units, though free, weak, weak, weak, weak. I could be wrong about how useful that is, but meh. Make his powers more adequately priced, and you'll gain some points back.

Overall total: 67/100 :b:
As far as creativity goes, not the greatest, but at you least you did everything. As for technical. Free units at dangerously low output. And overpriced powers. This has to be the shortest overall I've writen.

:brank:

BROKEN ALERT
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:48 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Crystal Guard 292
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Re: CCO Rex

Postby Crystal Guard 292 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:18 am

The day to day is obscenely broken. In the sense that it completely breaks the foundation of the way this game works. COs are supposed to be a flavor modification of what you're playing. This is picking Checkers instead of black or white for Chess.
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