CCO: Shallow

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JSlayerXero

CCO: Shallow

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:12 am

Name: Shallow

-Faction/Army: Any really, but for heck's sake we can say Blue Moon has him on their pay role. A nice touch though would be in versus mode his base would look like the base of the faction he on. Ex. if he's on a the Green Earth team, his HQ would look like the GE HQ, if he's on YC his HQ would be a YC HQ etc.

-In Game Biography:

A trade merchant that took up armed guerrilla forces to defend his home market place.
:hit: Stock marketing
:miss: Bad deals.

-Profile quote: In a trade, one thing must be given in order to obtain another.

:skill:
As Shallow buys all his gear on the black market they are more durable but are pricier.

:power: Tank Strategy
All units gain extra defense and counter attack power. Movement is lowered. Ammo/Fuel Resupplied.
Ever wondered why they call them Tanks?

:super: Stone Wall
Movement is sacrificed for defense. Counter attack power increased. Units are Resupplied.
Try capturing base now, I dare you.

Victory Quotes:
A good defense can stop any offense.
Losing Quote (If these even exist):
Well there goes a couple thousand g.
I hate losing, but I'm no sore loser.
If at first you don't succeed, buy more next time.


-Description: Shallow is a 6-foot tall man in a trench coat and dark pants. He wears a brown fedora. His trench coat reaches his hat so his head isn't visible from the side. His hands are in his pockets, and his pose resembles that of Grit's from AWDS. Just with the inability to see his head.

-Personality: Shallow is very calm, and rarely gets mad. He thoroughly enjoys having a better hand in battle. Though he hates losing, he isn't a sore-loser. Since he's a merchant, he is often around people and gets along with most anybody. He usual thinks reasonably. He hides his head for personal reasons.

-History: Shallow was originally a trade merchant, always looking for a trade that worked to both his advantage, and his customers. Few people have seen his face for reasons he would rather not go into. During a raid on the market he worked in, he ended up in commanded of a group of guerrilla forces in order to drive out the opposing bandits out of the market place. Since then he's not only traded goods, but also traded military services for things he needs, or wants.

:skill: D2D
-Units are 100/120.
-Units costs are 110%.
-Counter attacks are 120%

CO Power Meter: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: :bigstar: :bigstar:

If this is under/over-priced, please tell me.

:power: Tank Strategy
-Units: 110/140 (Default included)
-Counter attacks 150%
-Units are resupplied.

:super: Stone Wall
-Counter attacks 200%
-Movement -1
-Units are resupplied.
-Units are 120/160 (Defaults accounted for)

Note: I only want to work with one CCO at a time. Once I've got Shallow a little more balanced and original, I'll go back to making a CCO that does offense/defense trades. That or little miss rage-fit. I've also got a Broken Sturm replacement hiding somewhere in my drafts.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 56 times in total.

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eliascpsells
Rank: Trent Steel
Location: In a Zerg egg, morphing into an Ultralisk

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by eliascpsells » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:29 am

Ok, isnt 0 defense really bad? I don't know if this is true, but that should make you killed by anything (using my knowledge that 200 defense or higher is invincible). Also, how does the movement and weapons range fit into his d2d? Just my opinion.
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Audience: "*Gasp!!*"
Frink: "I'm sorry it had to come to that."

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEIwzueG5UI for the funniest Advance Wars parody.

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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:35 am

eliascpsells wrote:Ok, isnt 0 defense really bad? I don't know if this is true, but that should make you killed by anything (using my knowledge that 200 defense or higher is invincible). Also, how does the movement and weapons range fit into his d2d? Just my opinion.
Maybe it does permit OHKO, but 200 attack means 45+ match-ups are OHKO given a luck roll. Also, I think 0 defense means double damage taken. Each 10% up or down adds/reduces damage taken inversely. 140% defense means 0.6 multiplier. 80% = 1.2 multiplier Following that logic, 0% defense = 2.0 multiplier. If it isn't OHKO, then it does what it says on the box.

Edit: Most of this is certainly irrelevant due to Shallow's revamp.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
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Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xenesis » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:11 pm

Yeah, 0 defence means double damage of all varieties. This includes luck, so a base 55% attack on no terrain defence becomes an 110% attack with a damage range of +0 to +19%. Not to mention you multiply up any opponent's boosted stats.

When calculating how much damage you'll take the defence part of the formula is (200 - total defence). The reason why 200 defence is invincible is because 200 - 200 gives you a multiplier of 0 :P

But as an aside, you should avoid using zeroes anywhere because it will break anything that uses division.

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eliascpsells
Rank: Trent Steel
Location: In a Zerg egg, morphing into an Ultralisk

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by eliascpsells » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:26 pm

Yeah, time for some math.

Try typing 10/0 into a calculator sometime. See what happens.

You can NEVER!!!!! divide by zero. Just know that.
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Professor Frink: "Pi is exactly 3!!!!"

Audience: "*Gasp!!*"
Frink: "I'm sorry it had to come to that."

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEIwzueG5UI for the funniest Advance Wars parody.

"Have you ever watched yourself die? It is FASCINATING!"

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Mark_009_vn
Rank: PzB 39 anti tank rifle operator
Location: The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Mark_009_vn » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:47 pm

And that's Shallow. I honestly picked his name out of nowhere. And... I think his COP is a tad broken. Correct me if I'm wrong. But attacking first, then shielding yourself can be broken. The movement bonus is to either run from the enemy, or move in their ranks and setup fort inside their own numbers. This is also helps when capturing, especially HQ when you know they'll be after you. This can sadly encourage meat-shields though.
I have hacked into AW2 a CO that have a similar fassion to yours (defencive boosting COP and offencive boosting SCOP with a tiny SCOP bar, which is :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: in my case). And this is my experience toward play-testing him, should it be in any use:

My COP, which is quite similar to yours (110/150 stats) but it also halts the movement of all units completely, was deemed completely broken, the movement halting doesn't really do anything, I tried to fix him by not letting him counter attack by setting the attack range of all units by 0, but that didn't do a thing and they still counter attack as usual. Then I gave him a -1 D2D movement penalty, and it turns out he became somewhat weak but still powerful enough to be fun to play.

My SCOP however is different, it only boosts movement by +2 and give everything +20 attack, but it turns out to be so fast that you could hit the enemy dead in the face without knowing what just happened. Your SCOP on the other hand made his units into a ridiculous 200/0 mess, I don't even know what to say about that.

The CO bar, even as tiny as one star, would still requires some extra time to charge up, which would let to alot of COP spamming as the COP is more universal (in my case), and less risky (in your case).

Testing that CO has been fun, he (and yours) is a very interesting experiment regarding on CO designs, while both have a chance to be fixed to not be broken, perfectly balancing them out would prove to be quite a challenge.
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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:50 pm

Edit: I'm tired of editing so many of these, thus, removed.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:55 am, edited 5 times in total.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:54 am

Mark_009_vn wrote:I have hacked into AW2 a CO that have a similar fassion to yours (defencive boosting COP and offencive boosting SCOP with a tiny SCOP bar, which is :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: in my case). And this is my experience toward play-testing him, should it be in any use:

My COP, which is quite similar to yours (110/150 stats) but it also halts the movement of all units completely, was deemed completely broken, the movement halting doesn't really do anything, I tried to fix him by not letting him counter attack by setting the attack range of all units by 0, but that didn't do a thing and they still counter attack as usual. Then I gave him a -1 D2D movement penalty, and it turns out he became somewhat weak but still powerful enough to be fun to play.
Giving 150% defense for only 3 stars is cheap anyway you slice it. Unless there is a good drawback this is very OP and I can see why. But I wouldn't know about no movement...

Edit: Free space, woo!

Your CCO sounds like fun to play as. New tactics needed, but that's part of the fun.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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eliascpsells
Rank: Trent Steel
Location: In a Zerg egg, morphing into an Ultralisk

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by eliascpsells » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:25 am

I like your fuel and ammo stuff, fits the CO idea. Tweaking was good. I'm not a rater, but maybe he deserves an :a: rank (some things still need to be worked out).
Image
Professor Frink: "Pi is exactly 3!!!!"

Audience: "*Gasp!!*"
Frink: "I'm sorry it had to come to that."

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEIwzueG5UI for the funniest Advance Wars parody.

"Have you ever watched yourself die? It is FASCINATING!"

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:52 am

eliascpsells wrote:I like your fuel and ammo stuff, fits the CO idea. Tweaking was good. I'm not a rater, but maybe he deserves an :a: rank (some things still need to be worked out).
I rate "based" on the rating system given on the main site. If someone has something that is missing, I simply give them a variable until they make it.

Creative scores end up looking like, (8 + y)/20 a lot of the time, while totals are usually between 70 and 80, so an 80 would look like this (80 + y)/100
Edit: I've edited a lot of my ratings to be more stingy in giving points.

(This is still relevant)
Side thing here, Shallow was originally going to be called Shoal as it was the first thing I came up with. Issue there is, his abilities don't revolve around sea, shoal, or anything remotely similar.

To sum up one of the removed areas: His D2D issue and his 90% costs had affects on each other. As of current though, he uses 95% costs. So rather irrelevant.

Edit: Removed anything currently irrelevant or obviously implemented at the moment. They serve as space eaters, and a window into the past Shallow, nothing more.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Mark_009_vn
Rank: PzB 39 anti tank rifle operator
Location: The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Mark_009_vn » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:18 pm

JSlayerXero wrote:
Giving 150% defense for only 3 stars is cheap anyway you slice it. Unless there is a good drawback this is very OP and I can see why. But I wouldn't know about no movement...
Well, when I first drafted him in paper, I though that the "no movement at all" penalty might come into play. Unfortunately it didn't in practice (As you said, you can move first then activate the COP later). Then I tried to fix him by introduce the -1 movement penalty to his day to day, which worked quite well to be honest, so I sensed no need to change the COP.
Yeah, upon making him I realized shallow has going to be broken and/or lopsided in how he was built. I've edited him so that he's no longer 200/0, and that helps quite a bit in my opinion. I like his current 150/50 during SCOP.
Not sure what you mean by less risky
The less risky part is because the old SCOP, which boosts his units to 200/0, means that even if he destroys 50% of the enemy, the other 50% can still destroy him as easily. While the COP, you can still attack the enemy with 100/100 stats, then activates the COP and watch as nothing couldn't really do anything to his troops. Then the next day attack the enemy again and do even more damage. This literally means that the COP gives him 100/150 stats instead of the 50/150 stats you wanted.
Your CCO sounds like fun to play as. New tactics needed, but that's part of the fun.
And it was :D

Anyway, back to the CO, I don't know how the lack of terrain defence, along with the 90% cost would do to him. The lack of terrain defence, due to the AW2 damage calculator allows defences to be higher than what it's suppose to be, would make him be far weaker than what you intended him to be D2D, especially upon defensive situations (not to mention he'd be 100/90 upon plains, since everyone will be at least 100/110 upon plains, while he'd be 100/100). The cost reduction, upon my research, have shown that the true effectiveness of cost reduction is because it allows you to make counters and high cost units alot more faster than the enemy, that flexibility being added with the higher amount of units would results in the massively overpowered Collin. When I made a hack that removes hard counter units and replace it with units that have equal in efficiency with each other, for example a Neotank with defences similar to that of a normal tank, Collin's effectiveness dropped dramatically (normally he could easily beats Kanbei, now Kanbei can beats him easily). Now yours is similar to Hachi, which like him would allow you to pump out counters and high cost units a little bit faster, but the also apparent lack of terrain defence would also hurt him quite alot. So it's rather impossible to me to say for sure whether this guy is balanced or not D2D.

The fuel ammo thing is ok through, as it's too situational to really affects the overall D2D advantage that much.

The SCOP looks fine now, but the COP still suffers the inherit flaw that I mentioned earlier on about how it was less risky, maybe switching the COP to become the SCOP and the SCOP to become the COP?
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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:19 am

Edit: Shallow no longer has his old terrain issues. He's now entirely money based.

Edit: As you can imagine now, Irrelevant data removed.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:31 am

Edit 5: I'm going to put this lower down.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:17 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Mark_009_vn
Rank: PzB 39 anti tank rifle operator
Location: The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Mark_009_vn » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:48 am

Well, if you trim the D2D to be more bland, like 100/100, normal 100% deployment cost, does not ignore terrain bonuses, and buys ammo/fuel by turns divisible by 2. Then the "virus" will be gone. The fuel, ammo gaining is already good enough for his merchant history, and trying to give him 90% cost with no terrain defence just never sounds right to me. Let just keep it simple.
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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:09 pm

Edit: Too many entirely irrelevant posts... This is getting ridiculous.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:42 am

Is there anybody out there who does rating? Even junior rating? (I'm probably junior as I "think" I give more credit than is probably due)

Edit: As much as I would rather not have to remove unrelated/irrelevant info, it frees up window space, seeing as the page limit is 40 posts...
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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HPD
Tri-Star CO
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Location: The Mountain

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by HPD » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:39 am

Uhm, if you want to rate stuff for real then by all means go ahead. We've had little interest in both CCO creating and rating over the past few years that the old system fell in disuse. If you want to try to revive it again, by all means go ahead! It would be nice to see things happening here for real again.

One thing though. We're only really considering the rank that you give a CO when you rate it (S, A, B or C) as an 'official' verdict. Quantifying individual aspects with a weighted rating was too cumbersome and did not always turn out to be a correct representation of CCO quality. So yeah, you're free to attach numbers all you like, but I'd personally advise to just grade aspects with S, A, B or C and then end with an overall verdict of the same sort.
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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:32 am

I try not to be biased. And I quite frankly think I'm not that bad. But I don't deduct points as much as I should is what I'm saying. I gave a guy 10 points when he copied a COP from AWDS. I should've given him 5 or lower. Also, official? Erm, okay. I never thought that would happen, but thanks, I think. I try not to give too many extra points, but I try to at least give credit where I find it necessary. I should probably go back and edit my reviews. Though, sadly, I haven't many replies on those particular CCOs. One is very well made, and has an :a: rank for that reason. I'll edit if I find a CCO I've reviewed get changed. I'm not stingy about points, and I've probably given :b: ranks when they well deserve :c:. But I am stingy about :s: ranks. I list numbers, but I really care little as I have no clue what to give in some cases. And while I wasn't trying to revive it, I probably am, and I might continue, but actually trying to revive it.

Edit: I'm going back to my old reviews, and I find I definitely gave too many points, only 5 minutes in and 2 :a: ranks fell down to :b:

Relevant Edit: The creativity section is where I can actually be sure of my point scores. The rest I distribute based on how balanced I find said CO. As such, if it isn't mostly balanced out yet, it'll never hit :s: rank.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Airnike
Rank: The red in a world of black and white

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Airnike » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:33 am

JSlayerXero wrote:In case your too lazy to read the top, here are his new stats.

:skill:
-Units are default 100/100.
-On terrain with bonuses, he will either sacrifice defense for offense, or vice-versa during the actual attack, i.e. plains yield either 90/110 or 110/90. Terrain with no bonus yield 100/100 either way. This applies to both FS and counters
-On every turn divisible by two, 500g is spent to gain 1 ammo, 2 fuel of land an naval units, and 5 for aerial units.
-On every turn divisible by seven, he instead uses 800g to give every unit 10 fuel and 2 ammo. This overrules his 500g spending if it is an even day.

CO Power Meter: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar:

:power: Offensive Trade
-All units have 150/50 stats. This includes any default bonuses.
-Units gain attack, but lose defense on high defensive terrain. I.E. a land unit parked on a city will have 180/20 stats.
-Units with ammo gain one extra round.

:super: Defensive Trade
-Units that haven't moved have 60/130 stats. This includes default bonuses.
-Units that haven't moved trade offense for defense when on defensive terrain. Ex. on HQ and mountains, this turns up 20/170 stats.
-Units that have moved are default 110/110.
-All units gain 10 fuel.
OK, I'll try to judge as objectively as possible.

:skill: Hum, how is the offense and defense chosen? If it's random, then it's not really good. Since either way, your stats are lower than other COs on good terrain. The self-supplying is weird, so I'll consider that as bland. (This has no real impact on the game...)
I mean he's pretty low, not taking advantage of terrain like other COs, but having to sacrifice a stat. Low tier IMO.
Total: 18/30, out of sheer compassion.

CO Gauge: xxxxxX
Not really consistent, but justified. Yet I don't like it. 2/10.

:power: Lemme see... +40 offense for -60% defense? Ouch, it hurts! And the trade always chooses offense over defense. You can't do stuff with that because where your firepower will hurt, your opponent's will exactly as well. And during the opponent's turn, you're so vulnerable, it hurts. And the extra round of ammo is worth nothing. It's a crapshoot for me. Don't ever use this COP unless you're going to have a tremendous benefit. To me, stuff like that is worth (-1) star, and it costs five!
Total: 5/20

:super: Okay, now you lose 50% offense for a 20% defense defense boost... If units trade offense for defense, you can become nearly invincible... and harmless. And since units that have moved get 110/110 stats, it's way better to use it after you have moved, and just gaining the defaults and 10 fuel is nothing worth the six stars.
Useless as the previous.
Total: 6/20

Total: This CO is bottom tier under anyone. A day-to-day that makes you not gain a real benefit with terrain contrary to other COs. When most power-based COs can get 140/100 with COPs, you have to sacrifice half your defense power to go only 10% offense above them. For 2 stars more than average. Your super is almost completely useless, only worth activating when you have a crapload of infantries near the enemy HQ to capture it. I don't see much use for it. And while you have those stats, other COs go completely mad and have terrible boosts. There's nothing to gain for using him. Or were you creating a joke character?
Total: 31/80 :crank:
Grasp the truth! Hold it high!
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Don't be afraid to look yourself in the eye!
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JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:15 am

Edit: *sigh* I can't believe it, so much irrelevance. Still though, I guess this what happens when you change the concept of a CO almost entirely.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:42 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Airnike
Rank: The red in a world of black and white

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Airnike » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:44 am

Whoa, calm down with the long text and phrases, it's gonna bore me- what? Yes, I admit I read the whole thing.
And take any CO's weakness to have a "risk". Grit's directs, Drake's air units, and stuff.

For your answer to my comments on the D2D, even if it's chosen randomly I don't really care (It's just that GipFace, in his DS tier list, dropped COs based on random stuff drop down a tier). The thing is that if terrain gives him offense, he has terrible defense; and vice-versa, due to the concept. (Note: Most COs gain +0/+10 for each terrain stars. This CO gains either a -10/+10 or +10/-10. 'nuff said.)
But, as of now, outside of roads he is pretty much worse than everyone can be (and if Koal is better than him on every terrain, there's a problem). Colin could beat him in a predeployed map if it is terrained enough.
And your stuff with fuel occurs once every five days. Air units die much quicker, and sea units are not stuff seen usually in maps, so they should not be taken into account. So the fuel and ammo stuff is worth being noticed only if your army consists entirely of mechs, artillery and megatanks. Then it'd be powerful, but given his weak stats, not as much as it is situational. My advice would be to give this guy his 90% prices again. Or make the trades a strength instead of a weakness as it is currently.
For the CO Power, you could just do the +50/-50 down flat to become 160/60 and always having offensive trade for terrain. Jess completely resupplies his units, so why couldn't he?
For the Super CO Power, you could give the defense boosts to all units instead of those who did not move. And totally resupply units.
Taking AW1 Sturm's day-to-day during powers is like a blunder (especially given the costs). It's like if I created a CCO bland day-to-day, having Max's day-to-day during his powers, and Grit's during his SCOP. And basically, you could make the CO Gauge xxxxX.

Also, when powers cost stars, you're supposed to globally be better, like +50/-20 and not +50/-50.

PS: You idea of COs that took risks reminds me of a hack I did, where all SCOPs had the same costs as COPs, except you had a backside (like a terrible defense decrease, or hindering bad luck). But there, the SCOPs cost exactly the same as COPs. Your CCOs cost more for only gaining the risks of getting screwed.
Grasp the truth! Hold it high!
Thrust your fist, that's how you're supposed to use it!
You must've heard it, go!
Don't be afraid to look yourself in the eye!
Big Blast Sonic, that's my heart beat anew!
—from Big Blast Sonic

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:54 am

Edit: He resupplies during SCOP, thus truncating most of my previous argument.

Also, read above as Mark_009_vn explains what low cost is good for. And that being said, I didn't use it as higher tier units with endless ammo and fuel is OP, even if he had regular terrain boosts.

Edit: In essence, Shallow now uses the above. But with slightly different stats.

Edit: If you think this is bad, I had the idea for a poker based CO once.

Edit: Unneeded data is unneeded.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:17 am

Edit: This has become another pointless post. -_- Too many I bloody swear.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xenesis » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:27 am

Perfect movement is really, really screwy for balance as a D2D.

Vs Sturm has destroyed more than his fair share of AWBW maps.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:56 am

Edit: That's a medal I no longer qualify for as Shallow doesn't trade stats anymore.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
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Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xenesis » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:49 am

Anyhow, I do actually have a few comments on this:

D2D:

Unless you're trying to suicide units onto the enemy to do tink damage, the D2D for most purposes works out to a global stat boost (You get more firepower when attacking and you have more defence when defending). Coupled that with the cost reduction, you've got a pretty damn good D2D here. The 500G upkeep will likely be compensated for by the 95% prices after the first few days though.

It's a pretty complicated D2D that you could really just work out something closer to a global statboost.

Also, the game engine quite happily supports COP and SCOP with the same star cost.

As for the powers, you'll probably find you end up using both.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:06 pm

Edit: This is now a useless post that deserves to burn.
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:56 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Mark_009_vn
Rank: PzB 39 anti tank rifle operator
Location: The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Mark_009_vn » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Well, this wouldn't happens if he's bland (but with the ammo, fuel buying thing). Don't worry about bland is bad, this is AW2, 50% of the CO population are blandies or slightly better blandies (110/100)
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Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
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Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xenesis » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:11 pm

I think the problem really is that you're trying to do too much with the D2D. Have a really clear idea of what you want to do and distil the idea down to the bare minimum as much as you can.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Maybe your right. But all I'm trying to do is this: Cheaper units, but spends extra funds constantly on ammo and fuel. And get's something extra based on terrain, yet has to sacrifice his terrain bonus to do so.

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Xenesis
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Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xenesis » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:20 pm

They're two very different ideas that should really be split into separate COs.

Think about the most complicated CO in vanilla AW2, Sonja. She is a Fog of War expert and a counter-attack expert.

It gets even worse in DS when they've made her a Fog of War, counter-attack and anti-terrain CO.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:30 pm

And you sir... are correct. Sonja in AW2 is an expert at two things. This is "okay" but not that great. Her counter is meant more for out of FoW. But adding anti-terrain is WAY too far. A master of two things is okay if they are related, but three is too many period.

Alrighty then, Shallow is going to be a monetary based CO now. He's still going to keep some of his abilities, but others are going to be different. Though really, nigh endless fuel and ammo on a DAILY basis almost outranks Jess. Interesting fact by the way. 5% of an Md tank's cost is 800g. Now, off to editing!

Edit: I just realized his COP and SCOP reduce prices to Hachi D2D and Colin D2D -_- Now to go fix that. Also, I thought about giving him extra cash during his (S)COP. Like, 3000 COP and 7000 SCOP. Not much, but it helps with all that extra spending a bit.

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:26 am

Edit: Can an admin, or somebody remove all those past "irrelevant" posts?
Last edited by JSlayerXero on Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:56 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Satel

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Satel » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:38 am

95% prices? That won't be noticeable. Remove it or make it 90%.
The resupply thing has to deal with 2 problems: it's difficult to program and its effect can't be judged with numbers... I would remove it.
The COP bar is too smal... and the powers are almost as useless as Gold Rush is broken...
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:00 am

The reason I picked 95% prices is "because" it's barely noticeable. I could make 90% though, if it's called for. And yeah, upon starting this I knew the resupplying issue would be hard to program. Lemme see what I can do. Still though, at least his quotes "can" be amusing.

Edit: Maybe he should completely refill units weekly? Wait, OP =(

Xen

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Xen » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:23 pm

As far as programming such an ability, you'd have to do a fair bit of ASM work...but it can actually be done.

Although programming it for complete resupplies/refuels for free is a lot easier than partial resupplies for a cost :P

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:53 am

Eh true, should I remove the partial resupply then?

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Satel

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Satel » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:05 am

My opinion on this is written in my previous post: I would.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

JSlayerXero

Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by JSlayerXero » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:15 pm

How's it now? Tweaking was done.

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Mark_009_vn
Rank: PzB 39 anti tank rifle operator
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Re: One of my CCO Ideas

Post by Mark_009_vn » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:02 pm

Bah! This turns from something interesting to a Hachi clone. :(
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