CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

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Gallant
Rank: Green Earth Specialist
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Gallant » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:55 am

Army: :ge:
Specialty: Tank units
Age: 26
Appearance:
Duke has shaved hair, although it can easily be noticed he was blonde, due to his beard. He wears a formal Green Earth soldier vest.

Quotes:
Switch; Shall I leave.
CO Power; Learn to fear me!
CO Power 2; We all hope this works.
SCO Power; You won't use against me what I stand for!


Personality:
Alex Von Ehre is a noble. His father is a conservative aristocratic specialised in warfare on all fronts, but Alex has decided to specialise in tank units alongside his long time friend, Jess. Despite the fact Alex is young, he fares much like those old members of high society, avoiding liberals. As shown, he's conservative and avoid discussions which should put his opinions in doubt. Because of that, he's generally avoided and excluded from most social events.
His knowledge about tanks allowed him to create some which uses no fuel to move through roads.


:hit: Tanks
:miss: Liberals

:skill:
Duke's tank units receive a 20% bonus to firepower and use no fuel when moving through roads and have +2 ammo added to their normal ammunition. All naval and air units cost 20% more to produce. All others remain unchanged.

:smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: :bigstar: :bigstar: :bigstar:

:power: Tank you
Duke's tank units firepower rise to 140%.
All enemy's tank units use +2 fuel to move for the next four turns.

:super: Strategy Break
Duke's tank have get +2 ammo added. Their firepower rise to 160%.
For the next three turns, all enemy's units use +2 fuel to move. Cities and APCs cannot resuplly tank units. Their tank units use +3 fuel to move.

Tag Affinities
Jess: 110% Moving Power
Javier: 105% Together We'll TANK
Black Hole CO: 90%
Last edited by Gallant on Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:47 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Linkman » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 pm

Your CO is somewhat extreme--economy COs can be hard to balance, specially when it affects specific units like yours. The result is a CO that is too strong in certain maps, while unplayably weak at others.

Most AW COs have this problem to some extent though.

I like the anti-Jess idea (rather than refueling your own units, stop others from refueling), but it doesn't seem terribly useful. Compare it to Drake's 2 mass damage+fuel cut, for instance.
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hawkesnightmare
Rank: Mister Lister The Sister Fister
Location: A Bank Vault

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by hawkesnightmare » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:29 am

Pair him up with Drake however, instead of comparing them, and nearly all air and sea units may find themselves at the bottom of the ocean, or screaming towards the ground. The main problem I have is with his power meter. There is a lot going on in both of his powers, and the meter seems way too short. Something like xxxxXXXXX (4/5) would seem to work a bit better to balance him out.
daisy: If the UK is worse than the present #5 in the world in terms of GDP come July 1st 2018 I will dye my hair pink.

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Gallant
Rank: Green Earth Specialist
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Gallant » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:26 pm

Yeah, I thought his power meter was a bit too short too. I had thought it was fine at first, but I had forget Air and Sea Units would eventually crash. It was indeed made thinking on a counter for Eagle and Drake, since those two with their specialised units always mess my play. Man. But yeah, it'll be way too much, much better fixed with a long CO Power meter.
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Airnike
Rank: unstable

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Airnike » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:57 pm

I'll give my input on this.
WARNING! Don't take that as a personal attack, because the following contains very heavy criticism that points straight to everything bad and foregoes the good.

Bio: So many "invaluable" COs that don't appear in the games... *sigh* Also, the sophisticated language and all already belongs to Javier, so your character is essentially a composite of him and Jess, who tries to obsolete her in her own specialty... :roll: Also, the strategist part is largely an informed attribute.
The hit and miss are also cliché, and liking tanks don't tell about his personality. Plus "likes education" and "dislikes miseducation", well, it's far too simple. The "prizing his beard" gimmick is no more than a quirk, potentially indicating a grumpy guy but we already have Olaf for that stuff.

Gameplay:
:skill: So basically he has Jess's tanks for prices rivalling Colin's. Keep in mind that tanks are the next most mass-produceable units after mechs, so he's essentially broken by design with his strength only limited by the damage he'll take from mechs. Also, shouldn't he boost Megatanks too? This discrimination is nonsensical.
The no-fuel-used-on-roads clause is just a nitpick and overall useless to mention. As for air and sea units, the only thing this really means that his copters are crippled and he's useless on maps with sea. Well, depending on how much defense he's lacking. Overall this penalty isn't good because a majority of maps are ground-and-air-based.

:power: : Three stars, counting the default boosts that means your tanks get 10% firepower. Plus the Jess replenish, lol. Plus Drake's fuel cut and even more fuel penalty for five turns, tank-specific. To my personal standards it's horrible, and far too polarizing. Your CO is asking to get mechspammed the bejeemus out of, and is really a composite of Jess and Drake right there. Pair him with Drake and enemy tanks won't be able to move in no time. Broken by design.

:super: : 7 stars. The standard tank-targeted power. Getting 50% more ammo, well whatever you mean by that is unclear. If repeated uses of SCOP increases ammo capacity beyond 9, you'll break the caps and get the game to bug, triply likely to loop back when you're beyond 16. Also, this means a Tag Break with Drake cripples enemy fuel by 3/4, they can't resupply next turn, and tanks take 3 fuel to even move.

:tag: Affinities are messed up.
Getting better affinities with Jess and Javier than they get together? What is he, a hidden beloved half-brother to both of them? Eagle and Drake, who are essentially BFFs for god-knows-how-long, get 115%! There's no skipping that, man. Also the name of his Tag with Javier is both unfitting and too long for the screen to handle.
90% with Eagle makes him just a suck-up to Jess who got way too zealous in the banter.
Also, "Black Star"? You obviously mean Black Hole. And 70% for all of them (I can't believe I'm supposed to take this seriously...) is absurd exaggeration. I mean, the default for an Allied CO with a Black Hole CO isn't even 90% (only Von Bolt gets 90% from ALL Allied COs), it's 100%, except for personal matters and even then it often is 90% unless some real deep sh*t happened. For example, Jake gets 90% with Kindle, the biggest villainess (considering presence and rank). He even gets 100% with Koal, her second-in-command and suck-up, and also the guy Rachel, his closest friend (potentially barring romantic interest in Sasha), absolutely loathes.
  • Everyone gets 90% with Von Bolt, but look at a few tags below that:
  • Olaf-Lash: Remember that she completely wrecked his hometown for funsies in the previous game. And it's Olaf, a man who is extremely serious and patriotic. And their Tag rating is not 70% like your guy: yes, it's 80%!
  • Hawke-Kindle: Keep in mind that she essentially suckered leadership of Black Hole from him and gave it to Von Bolt, and she ordered him killed after he found out everything. And it's 80%. Lash herself has 100%, but it's mostly because of the mission where you have to fight them together and it would've been too much foreshadowing to even have them at 90%.
  • Eagle-Hawke: Here, you get your 70%, because Hawke once again entirely rekt Green Earth to test himself while Eagle was powerless. Meanwhile your "unvaluable" CO was nowhere to be found. And Jess, who was called early from training to rescue Green Earth, has a bone to pick with Hawke too, but it's 90%.
  • Rachel-Koal: It's 65%, the single worst tag in the game, because well, he did the exact same, just in a different way. And he told in her face that he didn't give a crumpets about her and topped it by calling her ugly, which given her somewhat short temper explains perfectly how she finds him to be the most despicable thing ever.
TL;DR: The bland Marty Stu is strong.

Bio: :c: Unelaborated anyway, he has no bio to speak of, and is made of informed attributes.
Gameplay: :c: Composite CO, and incarnation of targeted brokeness. And his Tags are extremely unbalanced.

Conclusion: :crank: I'm not even sure a rework can save this design, because it so heavily borrows from three Green Earth COs out of four (Eagle is the only one he doesn't take anything from) that his very existence is redundant, and the very polarization present in his design is far too much for me to handle.
MysteriousLad be like:
Oh hello, I am MysteriousLad.
Do you know when I was an OP player? When I wasn't in WWN and massclaims were legit good? Yea I miss the days I could force town to claim, rout out the mafia, and win the game for free day 3. Sometimes without being killed!
Senpai HPD notices me everyday when I'm town, do no scum play, and still get lynched day 1.
Anyway, it's time to go and ask people to claim and go lynch those who don't with my high-skill OP role.
I am MysteriousLad.

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Gallant
Rank: Green Earth Specialist
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Gallant » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:24 pm

Okay. You say you aren't trying to be rude and I didn't take anything personally, you can stay cool. But you could have worded it better to not sound so offensive. Not that I would care over anything on the internet, specially for something I don't intend to use in any other purpose. I really did it for fun from an idea I had for a character since the start.

Anyway. I completely understand your points, but I still feel like to counter a bit.
Green Earth army is based on WWI/WWII German army. You don't even have to search anything, look at their uniforms. And most officers or of higher grade on the German army for the first war was composed by either aristocratics or their sons. I based Alex's designed out of Javier and Jess because it's not so hard to have common tastes in an army full of people which behave so identical. Though I do agree he reminds Javier way too much and I didn't realise it. Mostly because I was thinking on something to pair with Jess and Javier, because I use them most. As for his beard, Olaf can have this gimmick and also had forgot Prince Lvov is russian not german.
But yes, he's and old German aristocratic that specialises in Tanks. Javier is a knight, not a noble. His manner of talk evidence that. I am still trying figure what is Jess.
As for his strategic thing "not showing". Think with it. He uses no fuel and cripples enemy's fuel. He also doesn't allow them to supply at APCs and cities. This doesn't sound any strategic to you? Not even slightly? I guess strategic to you is something related to fog of war, but then I'd have copied Sonjs.
But all in all, I do completely understand you here. Though I can't say for sure if he reminds Jess that much. It seems like you're exaggerating. I wouldn't care too, because it's impossible to create an aristocratic and not remind those two. I could be even more cliché and remind those of low budget movies or a copy-paste of Sasha/Collin/Olaf. Which he mildly reminds already.

As for his D2D, Mega Tanks aren't included to balance the whole thing. I don't like their superb power over anything and I think a 15% discount + 20% bonus is a bit too much already. Though it barely cripples him due to the fact I can get Jess's Neotanks earlier than her can.
As for no fuel... Man, snow maps can be a pain for anyone. The "no fuel cost on roads" was specifically thought for that. Half the time, if the map's big and you're not Olaf, you have to build APCs to supply your units and then APCs to supply APCs with fuel. It's a non-stop thing that Alex can avoid, much like Olaf. And I do have problems using Jess on snow maps due to the fact I'm running out of fuel before I remember.
And there's really no "fine" or "good" penalty for someone which specialise in Tanks. That is, ground battle. What, 80% of the battle is done on ground? And anti-air units can still do half and most the time a better job against air units than I could with Fighters. My only worries is not having a Bomber to counter MegaTank, but with a possibly Neotank swarm, is it needed? The only downside I see are naval units being weaker, meaning the enemy's units can mess with my strategy so easily. Still, naval units aren't that big thing due to the fact they're rarer than air units. And air units doesn't and have never worked for me, so I can't know for sure how big of a penalty it is. Maybe for you it is, but I can't know for sure. My apologies.

CO Power;
Mechspammed... Hum, they do give problems, is it really a thing? Anti-Air units can do the job so well against them, I still wonder how much of a problem it is. The biggest problem for me were always the omnipresence of tanks and their bulk, in which I always have either to create long-range units or bigger tanks. So they not moving is a good thing for me.
And fuel/ammo replenish are cool for people which use tanks, c'mon. It does remind Jess much, and I think I should re-think it.

SCOP;
Yeah, I can understand that complaint. Or critic. The fuel thing and no supply can be crippling way too much, and I do see it being more of a hassle and broken than it should. But I'm not worrying with it when it is applying to tanks, as it should be obvious already.
The ammo-thing... I didn't knew (and still don't know) the limit. Is it 9? I thought it was 16 or something. Still, 50% is half of 100%, meaning if full is 16, 50% would be half of that. 17 does break the cap. Maybe I can say, "all units have +4 more ammo". Done. I was trying to look smart, I say. And SCOP increasing ammo is new for me and I'm serious.

Tag;
C'mon, bro. Black Star was a typo. The new enemy of AW;4, I say.
But so, I can increase its default affinity with BH COs to 100%, but how the heck would this fit? If he's a noble, he's conservative and I can't really see a noble working alongside its enemy if not for personal reasons. If for some odd reason Koal, Kindle and Jugger affinity with the likes of Rachel, Max, Eagle and such is 100%, I do assume it's for gameplay purposes mostly. You're exaggerating greatly here. Lash and Hawke having 100% or 90% affinity with some is understandable because they do get better as a character when history progress. Your nitpick is astonishing.
As for Jess and Javier, yeah. I can make 110% at best, but they do remind each other so great, don't they, affinity should be high. But shouldn't be so high, I admit.

And this sums it all. Don't really take it in a rude manner, either, or in a sarcastic way. It wasn't intended to sound like it. But after the way you worded your opinion, I'm less inclinded myself to word mine better. Even if I didn't take it personally as I do understand most of them and also agree with you on some, the way you do is way too harsh to the point it turned rude. Despite the fact criticism is already something harsh (but totally and inexplicably helpful), it's, in no way, rude. You can always do your better and make it less rude so. Although I haven't seen or noticed any try on your part. Actually, it does seems you were trying to be rude since the first paragraph... If it exists.
And maybe (or probably) this is your manner of behaving and can't be criticised itself.

But still, I thank you for your input. Which, I can't agree fully, but is helpful nonetheless.
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Satel

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Satel » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:25 am

I'll be short because my brother beat me to it, but I will clarify some stuff.

1) I don't really care about personality and whatnot, I'm only talking about gameplay.

2) You're balancing your dude in a very wrong way. Affecting only three units and make them so broken isn't balance. Even if he existed in the game, he wouldn't have 120/100 tanks for 85% of the price. Just choose one: the stronger tanks or the cheaper ones? Both put together are broken. Also, a personal standpoint: unit-specific price reductions are pretty lame.

3) The COPs are basically a combo-platter of Jess/Drake, on tanks. So I'm going to get another few things straight. Affecting fewer units to have a stronger effect I'm not so harsh upon. Affecting three or four unit types and completely wreck them with a simple COP is another story. A last thing, I'd like to emphasize the fact that copying people's gimmicks is much better when they don't already exist (read: in the case of a fanfic or w/e, which afaik isn't the case).

TL;DR: Few duper-strong units is bad balance. Copying isn't good. Can you bother to balance that a little?
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Gallant
Rank: Green Earth Specialist
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Gallant » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:46 am

I've decided to change him wholly. From appearance, to personality and all. Hope it looks less of a CRTL+V of other characters. I've changed his CO Power and SCOP to not deplete fuel in a way like Drake. Simply forcing its enemy to deplete it on its own. I do understand the criticism, although I was trying understand it better. But that is.
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Airnike
Rank: unstable

Re: CCO: Duke Alex Von Ehre

Post by Airnike » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:02 am

I apologize for my inability to not sound incredibly rude at times. I can only do that for the time being.

So, there's a few records to handle. The four most produced groups of units in the game (and the core of any army in this game) are, meta-wise:
- Infantry and Mechs
- Artillery
- Tanks (with the extremely rare Md Tank)
- Copters, provided you can actually produce these.

Next, don't think of creating COs to solve the problems you're having in gameplay with another CO. That never leads to good since you're essentially buffing a CO you like and making an OC to fit that powerset. Plus, countering snow is extremely situational.

I will no talk about the personality change. Plus I meant that the strategic-minded aspect of the COs didn't show in his quotes. I don't have any sample now because you deleted the whole thing, but it was flavor-only. Plus depriving the enemy army of supplies, well... well then call Drake a master strategist.

As for 80% of the battle being on the ground, well in the meta you can call it so. Except it's 50% footsoldiers, 30% tanks, not the other way around. Not including Megatanks in your CO's passive abilities is entirely useless nitpicking, because Megatanks are not used by anyone not named Hachi anyway.

Note that Infantry + Mechs + Artillery alone can wreck any army in DS. Put a few tanks when you can breach to the enemy arties. Put a few copters if you got an airport. Put a few AAs when there's air units. In terms of meta, see how far I got to get to the anti-airs. Mechs, with a few infantry as support, cost-effectively wreck everything.

Also, creating a COP to solve your problems, once again, is like creating a CO to solve your problems.

The SCOP... The ammo limit depends on the unit, but no unit has more max ammo than 9 (Maybe none have more than 8). If you're increasing max ammo, you're going past 10 and the unit info panels might bug. Nothing nasty until you go past 16 and your variable starts storing its value into that of something else and then it gets nasty. Increasing max ammo is really somewhat unimportant, if you get my point there. I suppose it'd be new for me: I never got to see that because really, few people do care about that.

The Tags, well... Personally I wouldn't have him get a 90% with all bad guys. I mean look at another aristocratic (of sorts) who doesn't get a 90% with all bad guys: Kanbei. So even "for gameplay purposes", your guy shouldn't get 90% with everybody, especially those with no personal involvement with his stuff.

Also, Lash and Hawke have a 110% 2-star Tag Break; I think it's called Rebel Yell.

Also, I can be sarcasm-blind sometimes, and with my level of acidness I definitely saw nothing wrong with your stuff. If I'm rude, this is because it's somewhat who I am. Thanks for bearing with me and pointing this out.
MysteriousLad be like:
Oh hello, I am MysteriousLad.
Do you know when I was an OP player? When I wasn't in WWN and massclaims were legit good? Yea I miss the days I could force town to claim, rout out the mafia, and win the game for free day 3. Sometimes without being killed!
Senpai HPD notices me everyday when I'm town, do no scum play, and still get lynched day 1.
Anyway, it's time to go and ask people to claim and go lynch those who don't with my high-skill OP role.
I am MysteriousLad.

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