Donald Trump

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Linkman
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Linkman » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:21 pm

Donald Trump
Republican Party
48%
58,992,180

Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
48%
59,123,745

You guys definitely need electoral reform. You can't have this crumpets happen to you twice.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
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Pkdragon
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Pkdragon » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:11 am

Yeah, well we aren't going to be getting it in the next four years with a GoP held house, senate, presidency, and thus supreme court.

I'm not sure what the worst part is, but I do know that the alt-right being seen as legitimized is going to be awful. The internet is going to be insufferable for the next few years.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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monkymeet
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by monkymeet » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:15 am

it has been a terrible year for democracy
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HPD
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by HPD » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:14 am

monkymeet wrote:it has been a terrible year for democracy
this so much

our elections are in march, i'm gonna cry if this trend continues

sad thing is, i'm pretty sure it will
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
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scraggypunk
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by scraggypunk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:18 am

fascism is very scary but can be defeated. the people have to do it, don't hope for the government to do it for you
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:38 pm

HPD wrote:
monkymeet wrote:it has been a terrible year for democracy
this so much

our elections are in march, i'm gonna cry if this trend continues

sad thing is, i'm pretty sure it will
The only permanent danger is PVV getting a dangerous result though. I actually have a bit of trust in the other parties working out something amongst themselves, especially since the current coalition didn't blow up.

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Re: Donald Trump

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:15 am

I am sure they already did. The thing is, Wilders wants to rule alone, but the truth is, that no man rules alone. Even moreso in a democracy and even moreso considering the rest of the parliament wants to boil him alive.
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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:37 pm

Pretty much why I find a district system crappy. It's more complicated with the USA though. It being a federation matters a lot.

Big question if Trump will manage to be loved by the whites, or rural/lower class groups. Because restoring what they crave for is not possible in a sustainable manner. Either he manages to play it off, or it blows up in the GOP's face.

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Re: Donald Trump

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:25 pm

Dragonite wrote:Pretty much why I find a district system crappy. It's more complicated with the USA though. It being a federation matters a lot.

Big question if Trump will manage to be loved by the whites, or rural/lower class groups. Because restoring what they crave for is not possible in a sustainable manner. Either he manages to play it off, or it blows up in the GOP's face.
I am pretty sure Trump is aware of this.
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daisy
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by daisy » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:32 am

monkymeet wrote:it has been a terrible year for democracy
One undemocratic election and suddenly the year is terrible?

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Narts

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Narts » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:49 am

But it was a great victory for democracy. All the hillbillies and crumpets got what they wanted and there's a literal idiot in the white house representing The People. Is that not what democracy is about.

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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:15 am

I've learnt people do not actually agree yet what democracy should be about. Especially in things like this the priorities are hard to measure.

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Narts

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Narts » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:01 am

If people want to turn into nuclear ashes that's what they get. That's democracy.

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Pkdragon
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Pkdragon » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:56 pm

I'm not feeling particularly charitable to democracy the past week (actually more like months), specifically not this form of democracy based on a 300 year old document that was very much the product of it's times...

...but Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

It's not much, but it's something. It shows that despite Clinton's unpopularity, despite her legitimate flaws, more people realized she was less harmful for us than Donald Trump. America achieved the absolute baseline minimum to keep me having some degree of faith in the world, and that's pretty sad, but at the same time, it's something worth clinging to.

So the sad day for democracy is letting a 300 year old system distort the will of the people. Only once we get rid of the electoral college will we truly be ready to screw ourselves over AND take full responsibility for it.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Narts

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Narts » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:06 pm

We can quibble about single digit percentages but that doesn't change the fact that roughly half of the American public apparently don't care whether their leader is even basically intelligent or knowledgeable.

It shows deep societal apathy and total indifference to reason, logic, facts, science, philosophy, morality and ideas.

Then again, Objectivism even after all these decades has not succeeded at becoming the mainstream ideology in a country whose people supposedly care about freedom, so I guess that much was obvious.

Trump is a businessman, of course, and in hindsight it probably shouldn't be too surprising that he managed to gain as much popularity. As a seasoned businessperson he would be the first to understand that big masses of people don't act rationally. He would just look at the numbers. If whatever he says or does causes his popularity to go up, then whatever he said or did was right and he needs to do more of that, no matter how stupid or mad it seems. Big business has been doing this for ages and I guess it makes sense the same works in politics.

Democracy is a classic example of the fallacy that you can solve problems by throwing more people at it. Once the size of a group gets larger than 10 people or so it starts becoming exponentially more stupid and inefficient. A mass of people the size of USA has an intelligence roughly equivalent to an amoeba, and well, the results speak for themselves.

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monkymeet
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by monkymeet » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:25 am

daisy wrote:
monkymeet wrote:it has been a terrible year for democracy
One undemocratic election and suddenly the year is terrible?
obviously it's not just the us. brexit wasn't great. turkey got fudge. hong kong is getting shat on by the ccp. brazil got their coup. venezuela is dead
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Linkman
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Linkman » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:37 am

Brazilian president was lawfully impeached for blatant misuse of fiscal funds

Don't buy into that hype (or do if you think the charges were crumpets but I don't think they were)
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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monkymeet
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by monkymeet » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:10 am

i don't think the replacement is anything even close to better. regardless of whose the leader though, crumpets isn't good now. a couple colleagues of mine at the university have been talking about how bad things are getting.
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Linkman
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Linkman » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Oh sure, that's a valid opinion, I think the current replacement is pretty bad too.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Donald Trump

Post by daisy » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:23 pm

monkymeet wrote:brexit wasn't great.
Brexit was the most democratic vote the UK has had in decades, especially in terms of turnout. I think you mean "it's been a terrible year for politics because I don't like the results."

The US election was undemocratic, but the American electoral system never claimed to be a democracy - the founding fathers saw to that.

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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:20 am

It's a sad thing, because the founding fathers didn't see this ultra-partisan application of their system coming either. Rather then ensuring as a failsafe, it's just a instrument of power for them.

Another big drawback of the district system + electoral college add-on is that especially in a huge federation like the United States, the war is fought about pragmatically winning states, in instead of properly targeting the population as a whole as it ought to be. Clinton was a so-so candidate who got justly punished for ignoring certain groups and states, but maybe it's less temping to make this error for politicans like her, if the popular vote was the only thing that mattered.

I'm in general not fond of the US attitude about being the ''greatest democracy'' in the world. It is a very intricate system that they have, but it's just the nature of things that such a specific design will get abused by those who can get away with it. Took a few centuries, but if you look at how all 3 branches have to operate in such a dirty manner.. No thanks, I will continue to gloat about my local system being far superior. Wilders was already boasting his turn will be next, but he already was involved supporting a minority coalition, which he blew after two years. It's only after that that the current right-wing won't put up with him anymore, and politics have adapted since. We're more likely to have a jigsaw coalition before he gets any actual power again. Meanwhile, it's 4 years of Trump unless he's stupid enough to somehow lose his office midterm.

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monkymeet
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by monkymeet » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:42 am

daisy wrote:
monkymeet wrote:brexit wasn't great.
Brexit was the most democratic vote the UK has had in decades, especially in terms of turnout. I think you mean "it's been a terrible year for politics because I don't like the results."

The US election was undemocratic, but the American electoral system never claimed to be a democracy - the founding fathers saw to that.
whether or not i believe in brexit is a good idea is irrelevant. you cannot deny both the campaigns that ran for it as well as the aftermath have been nothing but a giant crumpets
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daisy
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by daisy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:31 am

I ignored most of the campaigning by turning off the TV.

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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:43 am

So Trump is giving interesting people positions..

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scraggypunk
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by scraggypunk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:24 am

that's not what "interesting" means, dragonite

he's giving terrible fascist monsters positions
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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Linkman
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Linkman » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:57 am

He was elected by being a terrible fascist monster :/

I think the Mexicans will build the wall themselves to keep all the americans out. I get it Trump that was the plan all along wasn't it
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Guesty

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Guesty » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:48 am

As someone with a Muslim family, has a disability and such, and hates racists, I feel very disappointed in Trump's win. I honestly don't see much hope for the country for the next 4, or God forbid 8, years. I wish people didn't consider racism and such acceptable.
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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:14 am

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3551140864

Just as expected. There's a argument to be made here in federalist USA, perhaps, but we all know his tantrum would have been just as bad as four years ago should the reverse situation have hit him.

Everything he's doing since the elections makes me so sad.

Edit: oh why the ego in his previous tweet is even worse. Claims he would have won popular vote as well if he had campaigned with it in mind.

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Pkdragon
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Pkdragon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:42 am

I hear ya, Guesty. Good luck through the coming years, hope nothing bad happens to you or your family. I'd move to a blue state if you aren't already in one, majority of the US proved it isn't worth living in. Come to Colorado, we're mostly blue!

But seriously, Guesty. Just remember, there's a lot of people who are really pissed off about this, and we aren't going to normalize this. You aren't alone, even if it seems like it browsing your average comments section.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Dragonite
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Dragonite » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:06 am

WWN's activity is going to soar from being venting place against Trump.

I'm actually not being ironic about this if the current topics are a indication. WWN is still kind of tightly-knit, and that can be advantage when when having to cope with a man like Trump getting full control. Vent all you like Guesty.

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Narts

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Narts » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:10 am

I always was worried if all the member states in a federation with freedom of movement would come into play in a democratic election.

Hip hip hooray for the rights of non-human legal entities!

tbf it's safe to say everyone involved knows the rules of the game and play accordingly. It's impossible to say if the same would have happened in a popular vote or not.

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HPD
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by HPD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:38 am

Already heard people talking about CalExit. I wonder if that's actually serious.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Sniffit II
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Sniffit II » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:08 am

monkymeet wrote:
daisy wrote: Brexit was the most democratic vote the UK has had in decades, especially in terms of turnout. I think you mean "it's been a terrible year for politics because I don't like the results."

The US election was undemocratic, but the American electoral system never claimed to be a democracy - the founding fathers saw to that.
whether or not i believe in brexit is a good idea is irrelevant. you cannot deny both the campaigns that ran for it as well as the aftermath have been nothing but a giant crumpets

This exactly - Note the Prime Minister without a mandate from the people (which I may point out: she herself was relentless in blasting Gordon Brown for) trying to trigger Article 50 without going through parliament. Also note the MP who was killed pretty for her political position. Also note the fact that the major claim of the winning side was dismissed as "a mistake" by its leading campaigner before all the results of the referendum were in.

All in all - absolutely terrible.

Oh: and another thing - the Daily Fail sporting pictures of the three judges who said "No, you have to go through parliament on this one" as Enemies Of The People. Funny - people campaining to "bring back the sovreignty of Parliament" got all pissy when three people whose job is to know the law decided Parliament needed sovreignty on the matter.
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daisy
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by daisy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:10 am

You vote for your local MP, not for the PM. She has a mandate.

...not a good one, but she has one.

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scraggypunk
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by scraggypunk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:53 pm

oh and don't let fascists assassinate her
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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Sniffit II
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by Sniffit II » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:15 am

daisy wrote:You vote for your local MP, not for the PM. She has a mandate.

...not a good one, but she has one.
Aye, but for someone who previously claimed someone in the same position had none, she's forgetting that remark she made rather conveniently, and surely, the PM does actually have a fairly large say in what the policies are going to be, so as PM has changed, surely a large amount of the direction of policy has changed, probably in a way in which the country at the time did not vote for, and aren't you actually voting for policy (in theory) rather than person. She has a mandate of sorts, but the policy direction which she'll be promoting very much won't.
i don't know what a bishop ninja is but if it can still move diagonal without being seen it's got my vote - Pkdragon

FEAR ME, FEAR THE FIRE THAT BURNS IN MY BALLS, VERIDIAN FOREST! - Dragonite

Vote Sniffit for Space Dictator.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Donald Trump

Post by daisy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:04 pm

ya thats what i said pretty much

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Joey

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Joey » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:41 am

We are way more fudge than you guys think we are.
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Joey

Re: Donald Trump

Post by Joey » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:42 am

HPD wrote:Already heard people talking about CalExit. I wonder if that's actually serious.
It's not.
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scraggypunk
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Re: Donald Trump

Post by scraggypunk » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:56 am

the united states no longer being united seems to be a thing the citizens want
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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