Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

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Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:44 am

This is not designed to end up in a religious flame war. Any form of religious debate is banned. Simply talk about what you personally believe in. Feel free to ask questions about each other's thoughts, etc.

Relativist Methodist Christian

I am a rare sort of Christian - a relativist one. Personally, I think that "Good" and "Evil" are two entirely subjective terms. To the mouse, the cat is evil. To the human, the cat is probably cute and cuddly. As a Christian, I believe in Satan as a real entity, as with God. Satan exists not necessarily as an evil being, however. To Christians, he is evil, because he goes against all that we stand for. To Theistic Satanists (Of which I know quite a few irl), it is the reverse.

All religions, even Atheism, (If that is actually a religion or not is up to you) has some element of truth in it. I believe that we are mutually assigned a faith at birth, and that it is God's will for us to follow that faith. That is why I strongly disagree with the forced conversion of non-Christians. People must make their own choice out of their own, God-given, free will. It is all part of God's ultimate plan, of which we have no right to know the details of.

An example of how I might apply this irl, is that I have a speech impediment. (Similar to that of Gareth Gates) I believe that it is not my place to know the reasoning behind it. I do not even want to know why God has given it to me. All I know is that it is for some greater good, and once it's purpose in life has passed, He will heal me. Christianity is all about trust. It is for my own greater good.

Satan also exists to do God's will. While he is evil (According to my beliefs), God makes use of the "bad" situations he causes. Satan tempts us and tests our faith. The more we resist, the stronger we grow in relationship with God. I have researched Satanism (Both LaVeyan and Theistic), Wicca and some other forms of Paganism. I've read the Satanic Bible, Satan Speaks, The Devil's Notebook, (All by Anton LaVey) and numerous Wiccan books. They are all very interesting books. I actually learnt a lot from them, despite not being Satanic. However, it's not my path. It could be different for someone else. I felt even closer to God than before, as well as generally happier after reading them. That is how He makes good out of a bad situation.

Generally, I take the Old Testament in a more poetic way. The New Testament I take word-for-word. I have read the Bible cover-to-cover twice.

Conservative

I am generally in favour of preserving the traditional nature of Britain, without invasions of culture from other countries, eg America. A good example of this is Halloween - a blatant American import with no real significance over here. It's more widely celebrated than Remembrance Day these days, which is just outrageous. We've even slightly started celebrating Independence Day (Or at least the shops have) - the day that we actually LOST A BATTLE. It's ridiculous that we call ourselves "British" these days. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up becoming another US state in the next 250 years, if the US still exists.

I am fully in support of Obama becoming the next US president. He said he is going to remove troops from Iraq and focus on more important matters in the area. That is EXACTLY what we need. To quote the man himself, "it is ridiculous that after seven years, the terrorists who killed 3000 Americans on their own soil remain at large." The only thing is that I think Iran have every right to have WMDs. It's not like they'll use them. A lot of other countries in the area have access to WMDs, so it's only natural that they'd want them. They need to be regulated, but I think it's a right of EVERY country to have WMDs.

Medically, abortion should be banned, end of. It's nothing more than outright murder in my eyes. Euthanasia should also be banned except in very special circumstances.

Cameron for Prime Minister FTW. The guy is awesome. He pwns in Parliament. Brown has been unlucky in that he became PM at exactly the wrong moment - losing the data discs for thousands of people, the economic crisis and just at the end of the Iraq War. (Of which a civil war is bound to follow.)

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:40 am

Pretty Sure of It Atheist

While other religious beliefs are certainly a possibility, I see them as largely unlikely. I think that the most probable situation is that there is no god or gods or flying spaghetti monster.

Needless to say, that makes me a firm believer in evolution, and while I have a respect for those who have a religion, a respect that I have not always had in the past, I still do not believe that intelligent design should be taught in classrooms.

Liberal

The main part of my political beliefs is my stance on a lot issues that concern religion. While I'm pro-life (though I don't like to use that term), I find members of both sides of the argument to be viciously stupid. I find that those who think that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed are not worth talking to about it, because they are bull-headed and stubbornly attached to their beliefs, oddly concerned with an issue that doesn't affect them at all. I am against the death penalty and am for stopping the Iraq War.

Obama has my full support going into the 2008 election.
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Guesty

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Guesty » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:02 am

Bog, two questions:

If a 10 year old girl was raped and became pregnant, would you still ban abortion for her, knowing that the pregnancy would affect her ability to live, and a 10 year old body and mind would most likely not be able to handle the pregnancy? Young rapes happen more often than you think (It's possible for girls to reach puberty that young, very rare cases have extremely young girls becoming pregnant). The situation gives me a sick feeling inside.

Also, why do you believe that people are assigned a faith at birth? I think that as people mature, their opinions change because of new experiences.

Minor nitpick: Independence Day celebrates you losing a war, not a battle. <_<


As for my own beliefs...

Unsure/Still Seeking
I have a long way to go before assuming any particular position, although my family is Muslim. If a God exists, though, s/he will most likely exist as an omnipresent formless being, not as the old man he is often depicted as in art. I doubt everything, however.

Slightly leaning Liberal
I'm not particularly interested in politics, although I have a somewhat unconventional solution to gay marriage (got this idea from another person): A union between two consenting adults is considered a civil union. All marriages become civil unions, in other words. This way, conservatives can still be satisfied, because they can call actual marriages whatever they want. I am against torture, and those in Guantanamo Bay should receive a fair trial. Also, in general, religion should not play a role in government.
I need a better understanding of economics before I can make a true decision, although right now I somewhat support a free market while giving the truly needed opportunities to flourish.

In other words, I am not mature enough to take a strong stance on things that aren't obvious to me yet, particularly on religion. Although in politics it seems I'm not quite as wobbly as I originally thought. :)
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:42 am

Una: So you're basically an Agnostic?
Guesty wrote:Bog, two questions:If a 10 year old girl was raped and became pregnant, would you still ban abortion for her, knowing that the pregnancy would affect her ability to live, and a 10 year old body and mind would most likely not be able to handle the pregnancy? Young rapes happen more often than you think (It's possible for girls to reach puberty that young, very rare cases have extremely young girls becoming pregnant). The situation gives me a sick feeling inside.
I personally would disagree with an abortion. I says in the Bible that "before you were conceived, I knew you by name." Life begins at conception, or maybe even before that. God is outside of time and space.
Also, why do you believe that people are assigned a faith at birth? I think that as people mature, their opinions change because of new experiences.
This is one of the things which I carried over from my research into Theistic Satanism. We are each assigned a "mark", and are bound to serve a particular deity or form of the same deity. I often have doubts about my own faith. A few months ago I reached the point of basically being agnostic. However, I ALWAYS come back to Christianity, no matter how much I try to convince myself otherwise.

Una gave me a few things to add to my post. I personally believe that both evolution and intelligent design should be taught in schools. Teachers should go "Creation could've either happened this way or that way, now choose which one you think works best." I am a strong believer in free will.
Last edited by Bog on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:40 am

LaVeyan Satanist

Pure and simple. LaVeyan Satanism is basically the belief that there is nothing after death, no Heaven, no Hell and that all creatures are equal. I do not worship the Devil, but I worship my own life, as everyone else's. I do not help unless asked, and I (am trying, at least) must keep my opinions to myself unless directly asked for my opinion.

It isn't an evil religion, really. LaVeyan Satanism just encourages giving people what they deserve. If they are kind, treat them with respect. If they are not, they are not worth any time or effort. Oh yeah, and vengeance is fair game as long as physical/mental pain are not involved. April Fools Day is often the best time to strike. >_>

I believe in this specifically because I hate treating those with respect who do not deserve it. Those who mistreat others are usually people I must treat with respect, but I refuse to, and get punished for it. I don't like that in the slightest. Of course, maybe it's because I think a whole lot of kids in my school are stupid, but still. >_>

Absurdist

This is a step up from Satanism. Basically, everything is only worth as much as you want it to. I started thinking about it after reading The Stranger for class, and I'm thinking of just ditching Satanism for it. It's hard to describe, but it's mostly about life not being worth anything. Everyone dies, and nothing can stop that. A death will not be remembered unless it was valuable, and the next generation likely will not care about your death. There is no higher being or evil power, but life and its own demise.



Before I forget: I don't really care about abortion. What's so important about a life dying before it's born compared to a life dying after it's been born?
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:54 am

Ignore this post.
Last edited by Bog on Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Terragent » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:45 am

"Quote" and "Edit" are a little too close to one another with this skin. <_<

I don't like labels, but I guess the best you could apply to me would be "Materialist". I might detail my thoughts later.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:05 am

Unakau wrote:Pretty Sure of It Atheist

There is no god or gods or flying spaghetti monster.
Then explain
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THIS!!!
Okay but seriously though...
I believe that we should all do our best to help each other out in this life.
If we try to do that, just to make others happy, I don't think we'll go to hell.
Of course, if there IS no hell, then I wasted my entire life.
of course, I would have wasted it no matter what if life is meaningless.
So (no offense H_M) if there IS a God, you're most likely screwed.
*shrugs*

Oh yeah and I did steal that from Pascal.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by onewaystreet » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:41 am

Deist or Apathiest

Props to fal for the latter. I believe somewhat that some form of higher being helped create something (if the Big Bang theory does prove true, how the hell did all that matter get there), but I also believe that no form of higher being plays a part in anything that happens now, and furthermore, I don't particularly care if there is a God. Far as life after death, my belief is that your consciousness (soul for lack of a better word, although it probably isn't a soul as most religious peeps would consider it) is simply transferred to a different being who is being born at the instant you die or shortly thereafter, and thus life begins anew.

Far as politics go, I'm convinced that government fails in every duty except for keeping many citizens from killing each other in full blown civil war. But in terms of economics, foreign policies, and civil policies, many governments fail miserably. I think this is because at least 90% of politicians are related to former politicians or are just plain rich, so they never live or experience the "not-quite-as-privileged" life, and therefore have no idea how to handle the plights of the lower classes.

I'm also 100% for abortion and gay marriage. I don't feel like a governmental/religious body should have any sort of say in the personal actions of a certain person.
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
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RadioShadow wrote:Including having SEX? :o
I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:42 am

Also, the war had barely even started on Independence Day. Independence Day was in 1776, the day that the Declaration of Independence was signed. The war was won in 1781.


Also, I disagree with teaching intelligent design in school for the same reason that I disagree with alchemy being taught along with Chemistry.


And I'm basically 99% sure that there is no god, Bog. I also believe that anybody who is 100% sure either way is pretty screwed up. Just because you're not completely sure doesn't mean that you're an agnostic and not an atheist. It's a pretty messed up line, but it's there.


Also, there's only one type of abortion that I think is A-OK, and that's if the mother's life would be put in jeopardy during child birth. Any thoughts on this one?
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Sirdangolot5

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Unakau wrote: Also, I disagree with teaching intelligent design in school for the same reason that I disagree with alchemy being taught along with Chemistry.
AND WHAT WOULD THAT BE?!?

And as for gay marriage...
why should the government give a crumpets about buttsex?
I mean, it's gonna happen either way.
What is the point?

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:12 pm

Sirdangolot5 wrote:
Unakau wrote: Also, I disagree with teaching intelligent design in school for the same reason that I disagree with alchemy being taught along with Chemistry.
AND WHAT WOULD THAT BE?!!
Haha. Clever.
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"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Guesty

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Guesty » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:09 pm

Unakau wrote:Also, the war had barely even started on Independence Day. Independence Day was in 1776, the day that the Declaration of Independence was signed. The war was won in 1781.
Oh, right...I should have researched more.
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:17 pm

@Una.
Well, on a serious note, it is nice to have it laid out a little more specifically sometimes.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:43 pm

Unakau wrote:Also, there's only one type of abortion that I think is A-OK, and that's if the mother's life would be put in jeopardy during child birth. Any thoughts on this one?
I think whatever happens is God's will. If you want a more down-to-earth reason, the baby would likely have more life in it than the mother, and so the baby should live, not the mother.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Kanzer » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:35 pm

lol

Then if abortions DO exist is by God's will, Rexi.

That's why I dislike religious beliefs, they originate too many contradictions. My mostly scientific mind and way of thought makes me an atheist, but whether I think and believe there is no god or gods I'm aware that I can't possibly be sure about that. I think that makes me an agnostic atheist or something of the like. I remember Urusan making a graphic about this back in old CW.

Don't take my previous comment seriously Rexi, I respect all beliefs.
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:34 am

Sirdangolot5 wrote:@Una.
Well, on a serious note, it is nice to have it laid out a little more specifically sometimes.
I meant that I enjoyed your joke. I wasn't being sarcastic.
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"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:51 am

Kanzer wrote:Then if abortions DO exist is by God's will, Rexi.
Humans have free will, which allows us to do what we want. All God chooses to do is to point us in the right direction. To give us advice. If we follow that advice or not is our choice. He chooses to do it that way because, well, He loves us no matter what, and wants us to have a good, freely-chosen relationship with him. That's what I believe, anyway.

I respect Atheists who have valid arguments. IE, those who don't bring up the "well there is suffering so lol no god" thing. Once they do that, they've lost and are dumb.

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Sven

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sven » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:39 am

Religion: ~100% atheist, but I usually shut the fudge up about it.

You don't accept anything in this life without proof. Prove to me your god exists, and that he'll give me something worth worshiping him for, and I'll be the first one there. Until then, no god.

I think theists are absolute retards exchanging some political/ideological freedoms for a group to belong to and some admittedly intense feelings from praying/meditating due to results of brain chemistry. They feel that the deal they are getting is quite good, so they stay and believe.

Atheists who go immediately into an attack on the religion they were raised when asked about their reasons for being an atheist are absolutely retarded, and are probably worse then the theists. I am lucky in that all the Christians I know admit there is absolutely no proof of the religion and that you are believing on faith and faith alone. This may be a result of the publicly funded Catholic school system in Ontario, as there would probably be a revolt if they taught the more conservative religious views. They get away with Intelligent Design, but only in our specific religion classes. There is a fairly serious effort to separate religion and academics.

Talking about something not founded on any sort of reason at all is just going to be incredibly frustrating for the atheist, who firmly believes in rational thought, as well as for the theist, who honestly believes they are a member of a privileged group that will be granted access to some sort of life after death.

Politics: Don't support the religious party.

Pretty simple no?

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:15 am

Sven is the sort of Atheist I like. <3

I believe there is no hard evidence for God, but there certainly are clues. There's also clues that he doesn't exist, though. Most of my faith is based on personal experiences.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sven » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:51 am

What religion you get depends on your circumstance. I could probably name five rules to determine someone's religion, and be right a vast majority of the time. Hilariously, each and every single person believes that their individual beliefs are perfectly rational and correct. They are rational, but only to the extent of their knowledge. This leads to some people seriously believing that not only are their individual beliefs correct and rational, but that they have all relevant knowledge required to make such an assertion.

I laugh at this.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:54 am

So is your Atheism the extent of YOUR knowledge?

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Sven

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sven » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:43 am

Of course, though I do seem to have the advantage of belonging to a group that has the advantage in this area.

^ According to Dawkins (2006), p. 103. Dawkins cites Bell, Paul. "Would you believe it?" Mensa Magazine, UK Edition, Feb. 2002, pp. 12–13. Analyzing 43 studies carried out since 1927, Bell found that all but four reported such a connection, and he concluded that "the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold 'beliefs' of any kind."

I would be willing to say the average atheist will be better versed in logic and will able to form better arguments then the average theist in the Western world.

Also I've always wondered how you religious people dealt with verses like:

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." 1 Timothy 2:11-15

"...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35


if the New Testament is correct word for word.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Halo Capella » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:14 am

Personal Beliefs:
I believe in God, who's behind in any religion and non-religions. I don't have much to explain, unfortunately.

Political Views:
I'm quite apathetic and unsure in this part for now. Maybe later, sorry. X3

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:35 am

Sven wrote:Also I've always wondered how you religious people dealt with verses like:

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." 1 Timothy 2:11-15

"...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35


if the New Testament is correct word for word.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

Basically, a lot of that is down to poor translation.

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Sirdangolot5

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:40 am

Unakau wrote:
Sirdangolot5 wrote:@Una.
Well, on a serious note, it is nice to have it laid out a little more specifically sometimes.
I meant that I enjoyed your joke. I wasn't being sarcastic.
:shock: Dear God! what happened while I was gone?!?

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Treed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:52 am

Personal Beliefs: Sufism, mysticism practiced with a distinct Islamic flavor combined with esoteric interpretation of scripture. What I specifically believe and include as 'sacred' in my daily life is rife with clear contradictions and pure fallacy of which I'm well aware of, so I'll spare the explanation. I just think that the whole scandalous, irreverent Atheist versus concerned, conservative Theist arguments are getting a little tired. The best academics actively encourage dialectical reasoning and exploring and accepting ambiguity, and the best spiritual figures always embody compassion, unity and general acceptance. So, they're basically telling their individual sides (a pretty laughable term because there's nothing innately antagonistic about the two) to ease up a little and stop being so passionate about always winning high ground.

Political: The only things I feel strongly about are continued affirmation of basic freedoms and lifestyles including gay rights, and some form of social conscience in the form of a safety net.

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Sven

Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Sven » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:08 am

Treed wrote:Personal Beliefs: Sufism, mysticism practiced with a distinct Islamic flavor combined with esoteric interpretation of scripture. What I specifically believe and include as 'sacred' in my daily life is rife with clear contradictions and pure fallacy of which I'm well aware of, so I'll spare the explanation. I just think that the whole scandalous, irreverent Atheist versus concerned, conservative Theist arguments are getting a little tired. The best academics actively encourage dialectical reasoning and exploring and accepting ambiguity, and the best spiritual figures always embody compassion, unity and general acceptance. So, they're basically telling their individual sides (a pretty laughable term because there's nothing innately antagonistic about the two) to ease up a little and stop being so passionate about always winning high ground.

Political: The only things I feel strongly about are continued affirmation of basic freedoms and lifestyles including gay rights, and some form of social conscience in the form of a safety net.
If the previous generation got a chance to ram their beliefs down other people's throats I want it too.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Narts » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:04 pm

Atheist/agnostic/don't give a crumpets

Classical liberal/libertarian/just plain anarchist/don't give a crumpets

In general I don't like people imposing their will or beliefs on others and I have a strong personal sense of right and wrong and I tend to naturally root for those who are at a disadvantage but I have limited capacity to care so I remain largely in apathy while avoiding arguments about matters I view as being more philosophical than having any immediate practical relevance in my life. Debating for the sake of debate is fine, but I prefer channeling my healthy masculine competitive urges into a nice game of Go, chess, or Advance Wars even, than fight using language, which I find quite barbaric and distasteful actually, not befitting to a true warrior's honour. Fight with swords and arrows, and spare the words for reciting poetry over the corpses of your fallen foe! That is the Klingon way.

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Schpaksie » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:01 pm

Rexi wrote:Una: So you're basically an Agnostic?
Agnostic is a very loose term. It can be applied to theists as well as atheists. Therefore more accurate terminology would be "Agnostic Atheist".

Atheist

I have no belief in God because I find there to be a distinct lack of evidence for his existence. Being an exchristian, I've read the books of Christian Apologetics, and read scientific rebuttals to all the points they make, as well as the bible, cover to cover. Once when I was twelve, and once in February this year. I refuse to take the easy way out and simply say "God did such and such" because I don't know what happened. Our lack of knowledge in certain areas does not assume there is no knowledge to be had.

I am a firm believer in evolution, and I believe that any religious claim that can't be wholly backed up by science, and backed up to a level that surpasses the evidence supporting any scientific theory on the subject, should not be taught in any learning centre/institution. I believe that there is no degree of choice in our religion, that we are either convinced, or we are not. I think that restricting people's conduct of their own bodies where it doesn't affect others is contemptible, and even if I don't agree with doing any of them (besides drinking a bit), I think abortion shouldn't be restricted, and neither should homosexuality, drinking, drugs, etc etc.

I'm also rather accepting of religions, and have no need to convert anyone to my way of thinking. If they are brought happiness by their religion, then so be it.
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Bog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:48 pm

I thought "Agnostic" basically meant that "there is no evidence to support the existence of God, but none to unsupport His existence either, and thus we can never be sure."

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Kanzer » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:02 pm

Agnostic mean "I have no proof of God's existance, thus I can't be sure he exists". You can be theist and think that, basing then your beliefs purely in faith, or agnostic atheist, and think there's no god but knowing you can't possibly be sure about that.
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Joey Chicago
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:51 am

Rexi wrote:I thought "Agnostic" basically meant that "there is no evidence to support the existence of God, but none to unsupport His existence either, and thus we can never be sure."
"Agnostic," simply put, is usually a term reserved for those who are about 50/50 about the concept of a god. While it would technically be accurate to label me an "agnostic," I believe that the term "atheist" flat-out describes me better. That goes for the term "agnostic atheist," too. I'm a bit more sure than that term would let on.

I'm not blind, though. There's no way to prove that no god exists.
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Linkman
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:16 pm

Sven wrote:You don't accept anything in this life without proof.
You cannot explain half of the things you take for granted on a daily basis. To put it simply, there's a lot of things you can experience with your senses, so by some definitions you can say it exists, but you can't say what it is, or understand it's nature. On the contrary, there are several things you cannot experience directly, yet have been proven to exist by other methods. Don't you find it foolish to refuse concepts that are without proof or explanation, but also without counter-arguments or contradictions? We've been wrong about our assumptions before.

I can hardly say that makes any difference on the concept of religion, but if that's your reason, don't you find it a bit hollow? No matter how I see it our understanding of the universe that surrounds us is so incredibly shallow that we shouldn't rule out anything at all. And I say this with complete confidence in our ability to reason: if you think about it, the concept of a creator, isn't illogical at all.

And I'm done with this topic.
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Joey Chicago
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:28 pm

Maybe not illogical, but it is indeed Farfetch'd (quack).

Considering all of the mutually exclusive religions in the world, all of them seem to have the same chance, the same amount of supporting evidence to back themselves up. Unfortunately, some people (such as myself) find it far more likely that those religions are searching for answers that aren't really there, making up decent moral values and some crazy ones along the way that, while sometimes good ideas, are simply made up.

Besides, when the contrary situation makes so much sense, why believe in the one presented before you?


I'm sorry if I wrote this post poorly, this was kind of just my train of thought. I don't have the patience or the concern to fix it so that anyone could understand exactly what I'm getting at, but I hope it provides some perspective.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:35 pm

Why farfetched, though? It's not like we have a better explanation for it. Before you go Big Bang, I can just go and say "okay, what happened before the big bang then?"

If you have a better idea than "A Wizard did it", then we'd be glad to hear it... In the end, what science cannot explain (yet), Religion and Philosophy will always try to explain. And whenever Science manages to explain something, R&P (Hah, I coined an acronym) will try to answer the new questions that will definitely arise from said answer. I believe they complement each other rather well.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Joey Chicago
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Joey Chicago » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:39 pm

Science usually figures it out, as we've seen in the past. You might call crumpets for me using this word, but I have a bit of faith that they'll figure it out.

Besides, I think there are a lot of theories out there that make sense.

Ever noticed how R&P (Fun!) only raises the question but science always, always, always gets the answer?
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Linkman
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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:51 pm

Aha, so R&P are useful in at least asking the question! :P

To be honest with you, I'm against the concept of religion in the sense that I don't think people should blindly follow something and just do as they're told. I reckon parents should explain to their kids what they believe in, and why they do so, but not force it upon them to do so as well. Ideally, they should explain to them all the currents of thought and belief but perhaps that's a tad too much, and someone without a fully developed conscience isn't capable to make a good decision anyways.

But the existance of superior beings, spiritism, life after death? Count me in. I won't go into detail though, I think we've been through this a few too many times.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: Your Personal Beliefs and Political Views

Post by Terragent » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:33 pm

Linkman wrote:And I'm done with this topic.
I think you lie a lot.

Treed

Post by Treed » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:39 pm

Religion and philosophy don't pose the 'questions,' the answers that science finds to the 'questions' are fundamental questions of existence that invade every psyche regardless of religious background or philosophical alignment. If anything, religion and philosophy seek to explain the world in ways that excite the imagination, delight the senses, or rouse the intellect in order to alter one's consciousness and inspire hope.

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