Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

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DTaeKim
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by DTaeKim » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:59 am

You expounded on the Twin Towers controversy. At the very least, you have shown yourself to be a conspiracy theorist.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:44 am

Slightly believing in one blatantly obvious "conspiracy" and calling me a "conspiracy theorist" is dumb. It's like calling you a communist. :)

It also does not make me anti-American. I am, in fact, friends with an American irl.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by DTaeKim » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:30 am

crumpets.
Seriously, thanks to 9/11, America has been able to gain international sympathy, resulting in the unnecessary invasion of Iraq (Just for the sake of oil) and the (Although much-needed) invasion of Afghanistan. They've been able to finally put their foot down properly on immigrants flying in, thanks to heavy airport security. It actually strengthened America's slowly dwindling worldwide power - all in the name of terrorism. The towers, filled with asbestos and other nasty substances, as well as being pretty ugly, would have cost way too much to demolish properly - it'd be way cheaper just to rig the buildings with bombs and fly a plane into them. The 9/11 incident is incredibly similar to the Reichstag Fire incident in Germany - allowing Hitler to eliminate his political opponents and set the scene for his indefinite power.
Oh, the terrorists certainly did it. But there were definitely bombs planted inside the towers (It is a proven fact), meaning it was an inside job. Simulations have concluded that the towers could have survived an impact from the aircraft, and that they needed another boom to make them collapse.
Well when you examine the videos of the towers falling down, there are what are obviously small explosions on the lower levels of the building, nowhere near the impact zone.
Proven. Furthermore, the towers were built specifically to withstand an aeroplane impact. It would have been impossible for them to fall just because of the plane alone. Also, helicopters were seen flying next to the towers when the planes hit them. Why didn't they rescue anyone?
You have no proof. Your so-called proof is conjecture and misinformation.

The collapse of the World Trade Center is a case of everything going horribly wrong. The steel was expected to hold up because it was believe that the fire would not be hot enough to melt steel. The engineers were correct in that regard. However, those engineers also didn't know that steel loses over 60% of its durability when the temperature hits a certain temperature well below the melting point. Long story short, the towers collapsed under their own weight.

The towers were never intentionally designed to survive an aircraft impact. There were hypothetical simulations done, and the one you probably cite said it could have survived the impact. However, that same study also assumed that the fire would be the source of the damage and that the temperatures would have never been hot enough to compromise the structural integrity of the building. As we all know, that was wrong.

I don't expect you to believe this, because you obviously have placed much faith in your theory. Since you thrive on authority (since you were quick to bring out your degree in religion), I consulted two friends of mine who are majors in structural engineering.

However, I cannot let an egregious example of fallacy populate these boards, and a conspiracy theory does not belong here at all.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:32 am

How about someone who believes a theory could be true but doesn't believe it to be the ONLY truth? >_>
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Linkman » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:23 am

The steel was expected to hold up because it was believe that the fire would not be hot enough to melt steel.
I don't think they'd miss something like that. They just didn't make plans for the building to survive temperatures of thousands of degrees, and in all honesty I don't see why they should have. I doubt it would have made a difference anyways; maybe the internal foundations would survive but everything else would burn down, possibly perpetuating the fire (as opposed to the collapse putting out the fire.)

Of course, that's just my thoughts on the subject, I'm no cleverer than any of you about it.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:38 am

Ha! I stayed out of this topic as promised.

...

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:17 pm

Well, I am sorry DTK, but you're missing one vital point. There are obviously small explosions in the buildings when they collapse. Your theory could be correct, but they did have help in their collapse. That has been proven.

What you're also missing are the motives and who is responsible. Even if you are right, (Which you aren't) you cannot deny that it got the White House incredible power, and a fantastic excuse to go around picking on oil-rich areas.

http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... gners.html

:)

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Kanzer » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:33 pm

You know we spaniards say, there ain't a worse blind that who refuses to see.

Curious people, we are.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:11 pm

Yup.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:07 pm

gg

i can maybe understand someone believing in this crap i guess
Even if you are right, (Which you aren't)
wow

taking that tone is ridiculous

BYE AGAIN
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:31 pm

You are ridiculous. :)

OH THE NEWS SAID IT WAS THIS SO IT IS THIS.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:41 pm

Instead of attacking your argument, I'll attack your attitude. Something tells me the so-called liberal media (MSNBC, CNN) would not hesitate one bit to spring this on Bush. The only one that would hide anything is Fox News, but you wouldn't know that because you aren't one bit familiar with our news channels and therefore have no right to talk about the media.

Two biased (one probably more biased than the other) sources coming together creates completely crumpets.

Stop throwing around the word "proven" and start throwing around the words "conjectured" or "proven to be possible."


Oh, and by the way, this does make you a conspiracy theorist. No way around that. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but still.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:33 pm

And you aren't familiar with ours. :)

As demonstrated earlier in this topic, I completely and utterly destroyed your argument, (And thus DTK's) whittling you down to a "oh i cant be bothered any more" excuse.

You only came back because DTK did. Not so big on your own, eh? :)

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:36 pm

bog

you are one cocky fudge

you had not whittled down my argument

you simply did not budge no matter how dumb your argument had been shown to be

no point in even angering myself with you
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:45 pm

Unakau wrote:you simply did not budge no matter how dumb your argument had been shown to be
Lol.

Gone yet?

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by DTaeKim » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:02 am

Rexi wrote:Well, I am sorry DTK, but you're missing one vital point. There are obviously small explosions in the buildings when they collapse. Your theory could be correct, but they did have help in their collapse. That has been proven.

What you're also missing are the motives and who is responsible. Even if you are right, (Which you aren't) you cannot deny that it got the White House incredible power, and a fantastic excuse to go around picking on oil-rich areas.

http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... gners.html

:)
Fine.

By the powers vested within me, I could have closed this topic ages ago before it escalated. I give Unakau credit for remaining this long against such idiocy.

However, your smug attitude about the veracity of the 9/11 conspiracy has forced me to reveal my hand.

Those were not explosions.

Those were the sounds of bodies hitting the ground from people jumping from the World Trade Center because those people preferred dying in that manner instead of the imminent collapse due to the collapse of the building from within.

Have you ever heard the sound of a body falling and leaving nothing but a pool of blood upon impact? It is a grotesque sound. It sounds like a bag full of water hitting the ground. It would be nice to leave it with that image, but this was 9/11/2001. There was a couple who jumped together. When they hit the ground, it was a quick, explosive sound coupled with the image of two columns of red mist. That image would haunt me when my cousin described it to me.

He was there that day. He was visiting friends when the impact occurred. He rarely talks about that day anymore, as many witnesses do. Memories fade and hindsight, as usual, is 20/20. When the answer does not satisfy people, they start looking for evidence of an inside job.

No one foresaw the collapse of the World Trade Center. Even my friends would have told you that, because as a tower of that size, it was supposed to survive everything aside from an earthquake. The World Trade Center collapse is now studied as an example of fires in high-rise buildings and how to build a building that would survive such fires.

Your sources have no education in structural engineering. Your sources include a physicist, an author, and a computer engineer. Simulations can tell you everything, but reality kicked in on 9/11.

There is no dispute the White House gained a lot of power after 9/11. But to use 9/11 as motivation is horrific, because not even George W. Bush would have the gall to kill 2,600 people and a centerpiece of the most visible city in the United States.

Believe what you want Rexi, but to arrogantly claim I'm wrong? I cannot stand for that at all.

Take your religious degree and apply it somewhere else. There's better use for that instead of believing in drivel such as this.

I know you are capable that, Rexi. Don't disappoint me again.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:41 am

By the powers vested within me, I could have closed this topic ages ago before it escalated. I give Unakau credit for remaining this long against such idiocy.
I do not recall you having mod powers.
Those were the sounds of bodies hitting the ground from people jumping from the World Trade Center because those people preferred dying in that manner instead of the imminent collapse due to the collapse of the building from within.
Dude, read what I said. There were FLASHES that actually LOOKED like explosions.
Your sources have no education in structural engineering. Your sources include a physicist, an author, and a computer engineer. Simulations can tell you everything, but reality kicked in on 9/11.
How so? Your sources include your friends. Pretty much every accurate computer simulation disagree with your theory. Computers are better than thinking than ourselves. You are disagreeing with scientists. THAT is arrogant.
There is no dispute the White House gained a lot of power after 9/11. But to use 9/11 as motivation is horrific, because not even George W. Bush would have the gall to kill 2,600 people and a centerpiece of the most visible city in the United States.
He had the gall to kill many more in Iraq.
Believe what you want Rexi, but to arrogantly claim I'm wrong? I cannot stand for that at all.
Time to fall over, then, cos you are wrong.
Take your religious degree and apply it somewhere else. There's better use for that instead of believing in drivel such as this.
It's not a degree, although the current curriculum is what was the university course a couple of years ago. That's hardly relevant, anyway.

Now, instead of telling me what I already know, how about reading what I said near the start of the topic when I kicked Una's arse, just like I'm about to kick / have kicked yours.

:)

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:45 am

Rexi wrote:Computers are better than thinking than ourselves. You are disagreeing with scientists. THAT is arrogant.
A - Computers are only as smart as those who program it
B - Disagreeing with scientists is not arrogant

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:46 am

It is when you can't back up your claims, as those guys did with the sim.

DTK: What were you saying about me not having moderator powers?

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by DTaeKim » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:48 am

Computers are only as intelligent as the person who programmed them.

This topic is over as far as I'm concerned.

No one has won this argument. If I see ANY attempt to continue this, I'm warning that person. This topic is now about the Space Invaders controversy.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:01 am

Well, sorry, but that's just plain mod abuse. You've basically just said "let me win this debate or else!"

Warn me all you like. That's still abusing your position. "I will not stand for that." This debate was never about flaming each other.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by DTaeKim » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:30 am

I'm calling the argument over because it's obvious it's not going anywhere. You may be defending a very unpopular position, but it's your opinion. I've presented counter-arguments, and I regret my inflammatory language because it's given you fuel.

However, I'm close to using my moderator privileges for the first time because of your attitude throughout the topic. You have not "won" this debate, as you have said consistently throughout, because there is no clear answer.

You may claim moderator abuse, but in a topic that has degenerated to this status, closing the topic may be the best option.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Guesty » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:59 am

worthless topic lock now
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:06 am

I wonder who made it degenerate. :roll:

My tone was never, ever hostile. People just assume that because I took an unorthodox position it was. I never once insulted ANYONE. Quote me where I did and I will apologise for doing so. All you've really done was reiterate what Una said.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Guesty » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:08 am

Rexi wrote:I wonder who made it degenerate. :roll:
It degenerated when the debate started to drag on. We should all know how well internet debates go by now. :roll:

Believe it or not, I've seen these points many times. If new points were brought up, this topic would be a lot more interesting.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:12 am

All I will say is that it's nearly impossible to convince some people that America landed on the moon, regardless of logic and evidence.

Now, I thought I was going to get a bit of flack for my last post up there (Hell, I probably should have) because it was very close to flaming, if not flaming in the first place. I guess I worry too much. >_< Really, though, the reason I took the tone that I did is that conspiracy theorists have this habit of believing that they see the truth while the masses are fooled into thinking an "obvious" lie. This smug thought is thought is often, if not always, conveyed in an incredibly smug way.

This is my last post on the matter, and I only made it because my last post seemed out of line upon reflection.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:09 am

...

Ya know, Rexi, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, there is no REAL explanation to this?

Maybe it was a mixture? Maybe it was nothing at all? Maybe, just maybe, that people like BLAMING others for their problems?

What you're saying would be the same as me saying "it's your fault our economy sucks because the Euro(pound, whatever) is worth more than American dollars. Therefore, it's not our fault for not thinking far ahead, but for YOU because we want to blame someone other than ourselves!"

See? It works, and I can pull out evidence to prove it!

Dammit, now I know why I support abortion...
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:54 am

No, not really, because it's not the American's fault that the economy sucks. It's an international problem.

And yes, I agree that it was probably a mixture, but we weren't told A LOT of stuff.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Dragonite » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:12 am

In my eyes this is just a normal topic about a controversial subject.
I do not really believe the theory that U.S.A tried to maximize the action's effect,but it is worth listening to.
This is a serious dissicussion subforum,things are bound to get of hand sometimes.

But looking a bit at it,things really flamed up bad because the event was so dreadfull.

Thinking of it,11/9 is pretty close now...
7 years did pass already since that day...
Actually,I was mostly playing pokemon silver that day.I got my first DRAGONITE on 11/9/01....
That weird fact still remains in my mind.

I think this tread should stay open for milder disscussion.
And to recount the events of 11/9...

Those terrorist must never succeed..
What is a world worth when terrorism is the main way is gaining power?

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:28 am

20$ and a free pass to La Ronde?

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Kanzer » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:43 am

Rexi wrote:My tone was never, ever hostile.
Rexi wrote:Now, instead of telling me what I already know, how about reading what I said near the start of the topic when I kicked Una's arse, just like I'm about to kick / have kicked yours.

:)
Lock please.

I would prefer delete, but whatever ends this.
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:58 am

No, Rexi, you've COMPLETELY missed or ignored the point.

I can blame whoever I want for anything. Can I get evidence for it? Yes. Can I prove it? No.

I can blame you for ruining this forum. Do I have evidence? Yup. You constantly post things that no one agree's on and never, EVER concede that you may, indeed, be wrong. Can I prove it for a fact or the only truth? No. Because it isn't the truth, AND because there's no evidence of it being the truth. It may seem obvious, but just because something is suspicious doesn't mean that it's automatically whatever is wrong.

Geez, I feel like this is just a pile of tissue rolls and you're just gonna knock it over. fudge it. -_-
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Bog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:08 am

That's nice, dear. Run along now. :)

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:03 am

This is MY topic.

You can't ask ME to run along in MY topic.

And you didn't defend yourself or respond to what I said. At all.

That's SAD.
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:14 am

HM

YES

act like this from now on

i like it


edit: just the last post

i do not condone the act of saying that someone is ruining a forum
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:52 am

It was an example. I clearly stated that it isn't true, but I can make it SEEM true and make people believe me, even if it isn't a proven fact. >_>

What's that saying?... You can fool all of the people some of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time?

Yeah, Bog reminds me of the first part. I remind myself of the second part. -_-
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:03 am

Ah, an example.

Carry on, then.
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"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:06 am

Wait, YOU want US to carry on this MISERABLE EXCUSE for a debate?

Please, choose your words more carefully, dood.
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Joey Chicago » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:20 am

That is not what I meant.

Let's get back on topic. Space Invaders? 9/11? What's up with that?
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Re: Space Invaders: Twin Tower Controversy

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:28 am

Artistic representation.

Or, to be more specific, how Space Invaders is similar to the attack on the twin towers.

The aliens quickly come closer to the towers, like the terrorists. People try to stop them (on one flight, anyway), like in Space Invaders. If you stop the Invaders from hitting the towers, however, they'll just come back and do it again, just like how terrorists won't stop attacking people until they feel satisfied, which is usually never.

I actually think it isn't too bad of an explanation. Of course, I'm not saying whether he came up with this before or after his creation, but it's a bit odd that he'd show something like that in Germany and yet get some people mad here. Some actual families of victims of the twin towers attack weren't too happy with the game, which is understandable. Odd, though, that they get mad over that, but not how people use 9/11 as a reason to further their political agenda or how some people use GTA as a killing simulator. Supposedly, anyway.

However, that's another debate entirely. >_>
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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