WWN's Debate Topic: Religion and the Supernatural

WWN's Social Lounge. The place to come and chill out for a relaxed conversation about life and stuff, or some more serious debates.
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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Post a suggestion for the next topic

Post by Treedweller » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:47 am

Dragonite wrote:I also find myself getting strangely annoyed at the subject. Is this because of bias PR or because feminists can be overzealous?
It's because of a successful PR campaign waged against feminism for many years. It's not because feminists can be overzealous.

As for you getting 'strangely annoyed', that's your own hang up. Your annoyance isn't caused by anything inherent to feminism, which should by now be accepted as self-evident.

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Twelve Boats
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Twelve Boats » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:18 pm

feminism rules. palestine is right. the people of the middle east have every reason in the world to be angry at the united states.

the end
that's all the correct opinions
the dream

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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Treedweller » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:42 pm

This is why you're the best, like exactly the best, Scis.

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Dragonite » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:22 pm

I agree that feminism itself is self-evident. I've said before that I'm lucky to have grown up in a age in which important aspects of it are status quo already. So that's why I'm interested in finding out what the hell is going on with it. What causes the backlash? Something that does play a role is that I follow atheist blogs and stuff, and there's currently a large rift involving feminism there. One female youtube blogger spoke out against drama in the community(mixed genders of both sides, I should note), specifically Freethoughtblogs, which has strong feminist opinions. On that site, she was slammed for the video, and they accused her of stereotyping(which may have had a point). What also irked me is that she was painted at pandering to Dawkins to get attention, she's dependent on him, etc. This baffles me, because such accusations are of such a nature as the very thing they claim to fight against.

I'm still not convinced the way feminist activism operates is free of any fault(and given basic human nature this would be very high standard for any movement, no matter how justified). I also get the feeling that currently it's a bigger problem in the USA then in Europe(and within Europe Scandinavia has a much better track record), and er.. Americans are known for being emotional in arguments. The internet being fully international means that I get fragmented arguments, which to top is of are also more emotional then I'm used to.
Last edited by Dragonite on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Narts » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:36 pm

The important thing, as with any topic, is to separate the ideas from the idiots who self-select to champion them.

Once you've got that down you can ignore the noise (= people)

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:00 pm

A Blitzkrieg there is pretty hard.

Also, I doubt Russia and China are happy with IS themselves.
Russia wants Assad to remain where he is, and removing IS out of the equation would make that objective so much easier. Same goes, albeit to a lesser extent, for China. If anything, I think there's general consensus about wiping the floor with IS.

USA want Assad and IS gone, but they hate IS more than Assad.
Europe just wants peace in their backyard, through any means necessary. Some countries want Assad gone but I doubt anyone cares who replaces him as long as he maintains the peace within his (or her?) country.

A concensus would lead to blitzing it, putting a Russian puppet in Syria (probably one of Assad's generals - Americans want Assad to be gone but outside of that they have little requirements for the new dictator after the Egyptian debacle) and an American puppet in Iraq, while Kurdistan would likely rise from the ashes as an independent state in what are currently Iraq, Syria and possibly Iran and Turkey, for the latter two depending on if they value their pride or their ease of leadership more. Erdogan is prideful, but Iran currently has other things on their minds and just want their neighbourhood to remain stable.
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Blame Game

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Blame Game » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:22 pm

Dragonite wrote:I agree that feminism itself is self-evident. I've said before that I'm lucky to grown up in a age in which important aspects of it are status quo already. So that's why I'm interested in finding out what the hell is going on with it. What causes the backlash?
sexism!

it is actually probably way too complicated for me to even touch, but i think if you wanna get suuuuper general it's sort of just that =(

there's also a biiiig second-order issue which is basically, "some people really really really hate it when they think they're being called sexist." really it's not a big deal if you're called out on being sexist, or if even if you are sexist. like, it happens! but ego stuff can really screw things up and turn otherwise reasonable people into wailing assholes just for getting called on something. =( 'privilege' is another big one.

i think this is really relevant to the atheism community, which is sort of notoriously questionable on these issues. i feel like lots of proud/prominent atheists can get sort of dunning-krugerish? like they're so used to arguing about invisible crumpets that once they actually enter a real, complex discussion about something they're not really that familiar with, they skip the 'sit down and learn' phase and get straight to the arguing, which is a really really big no-no. starts fights, entrenches their original positions, just bad stuff all around. =(
Something that does play a role is that I follow atheist blogs and stuff, and there's currently a large rift involving feminism there. One female youtube blogger spoke out against drama in the community(mixed genders of both sides, I should note), specifically Freethoughtblogs, which has strong feminist opinions. On that site, she was slammed for the video, and they accused her of stereotyping(which may have had a point). What also irked me is that she was painted at pandering to Dawkins to get attention, she's dependent on him, etc. This baffles me, because such accusations are of such a nature as the very thing they claim to fight against.
could you go more into this? i don't follow youtube atheism stuff or whatever, i'm familiar with rebecca watson and much of the controversy that's surrounded her over the years though.

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Dragonite » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:07 pm

ThunderWalker wrote: A concensus would lead to blitzing it, putting a Russian puppet in Syria (probably one of Assad's generals - Americans want Assad to be gone but outside of that they have little requirements for the new dictator after the Egyptian debacle) and an American puppet in Iraq, while Kurdistan would likely rise from the ashes as an independent state in what are currently Iraq, Syria and possibly Iran and Turkey, for the latter two depending on if they value their pride or their ease of leadership more. Erdogan is prideful, but Iran currently has other things on their minds and just want their neighbourhood to remain stable.
Installing puppets will mean the seed for another brutal war somewhere down the line.Treed's sentiment that the people have reason to be angry is correct. The major powers have been using the Middle-East as a chessboard for quite some time now, and Israel is a very touchy issue within the already complex politics.

However as the actions of IS show, the deep ethnic and religious tensions are also a huge factor. IS is terrorizing the people of the area they control, and they plot genocide on minorities. We don't exactly know what's going on there, but all survivor stories document horrors. The rest of the world is a factor too, but I don't think they are the direct cause of everything we're seeing now, many things are also wrong internally. What would it take for the Middle-East to be truly peaceful? The Arab Spring is mostly referred too as a failure nowadays. Another question would be what the exact role of Islam is in all of this, especially IS. I'm obliviously not a fan of it(and religion in general), and especially the Islam/IS connection is fuel for my cynicism. On the other hand it's reasonable Muslims reject the notion IS has anything to do with true Islam, considering the sheer brutality of the group. Lacking supernatural belief myself, I don't consider a ''true'' version of Islam to exist in a absolute way, so I can bring up sympathy for that view. Some Islamic classmates of my brought up the issue a few weeks ago, and there was heartfelt pain while they more or less stated the same opinion, which impressed me. We're all humans when it comes down to it. I dislike people like Geert Wilders precisely because his rhetoric towards Muslims lacks such human consideration.

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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Treedweller » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:51 pm

Dragonite wrote:Another question would be what the exact role of Islam is in all of this, especially IS. I'm obliviously not a fan of it(and religion in general), and especially the Islam/IS connection is fuel for my cynicism.
Hey dude, equating Islam and ISIS is pretty fudge dumb. Like, I'm glad you seem to consider the connection tenuous later in your post, but these couple sentences strike me as dangerous.

But while we're on the topic anyways, you do you know any moderate Christians I can ask to explain their role in sparking public backlash against the LGBTQ community and outlawing homosexuality in Uganda?

Because they got some 'splaining to do.

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Linkman » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:56 pm

Mixing these two issues in a single topic is weird. Can we separate them?
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by Bonesy » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:40 am

but what if ISIS was actually ran by a cabal of angry feminazis

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:13 am

Dragonite wrote:
ThunderWalker wrote: A concensus would lead to blitzing it, putting a Russian puppet in Syria (probably one of Assad's generals - Americans want Assad to be gone but outside of that they have little requirements for the new dictator after the Egyptian debacle) and an American puppet in Iraq, while Kurdistan would likely rise from the ashes as an independent state in what are currently Iraq, Syria and possibly Iran and Turkey, for the latter two depending on if they value their pride or their ease of leadership more. Erdogan is prideful, but Iran currently has other things on their minds and just want their neighbourhood to remain stable.
Installing puppets will mean the seed for another brutal war somewhere down the line.Treed's sentiment that the people have reason to be angry is correct. The major powers have been using the Middle-East as a chessboard for quite some time now, and Israel is a very touchy issue within the already complex politics.
You are right. With a Russian puppet I meant more someone who favored Russia - and more than likely one of Assad's proteges. I mean, Assad already kinda was a Russian puppet but not quite, and I would expect his successor to be similar. I do not expect the Free Syrian Army to defeat Assad nor IS, so eventually a peace treaty has to be signed there, and afterwards a few things will change but Syria is not overly likely to become a democracy.

Iraq is more complicated than I initially put it, but I had to go when writing the post so I couldn't elaborate as I hoped. Iraq's new leader would have to keep multiple factions within his country consent which is very bothersome, and Maliki obviously failed horribly, which is partly what allowed IS to rise. I think, oddly, that most Iraqi's would fail here, failing to prevent the ship from being thrown onto the rocks again and again - until it finally sinks. Iraq is simply too devided for a leader from either of these groups - only a dictator can keep the country together somewhat peacefully, but that would only cause more negative sentiments to boil up under the surface, not helping matters in the long run.

However as the actions of IS show, the deep ethnic and religious tensions are also a huge factor. IS is terrorizing the people of the area they control, and they plot genocide on minorities. We don't exactly know what's going on there, but all survivor stories document horrors. The rest of the world is a factor too, but I don't think they are the direct cause of everything we're seeing now, many things are also wrong internally. What would it take for the Middle-East to be truly peaceful? The Arab Spring is mostly referred too as a failure nowadays. Another question would be what the exact role of Islam is in all of this, especially IS. I'm obliviously not a fan of it(and religion in general), and especially the Islam/IS connection is fuel for my cynicism. On the other hand it's reasonable Muslims reject the notion IS has anything to do with true Islam, considering the sheer brutality of the group. Lacking supernatural belief myself, I don't consider a ''true'' version of Islam to exist in a absolute way, so I can bring up sympathy for that view. Some Islamic classmates of my brought up the issue a few weeks ago, and there was heartfelt pain while they more or less stated the same opinion, which impressed me. We're all humans when it comes down to it. I dislike people like Geert Wilders precisely because his rhetoric towards Muslims lacks such human consideration.
True. This is exactly what makes everything so incredibly complicated. There are so many factors, but they are not too dissimilar from the Thirty Years' War in Europe, now almost four centuries ago. This war in the Middle East will probably also last thirty years or something...

The Arab Spring's failure basically can be put together in one sentence: People were unhappy, rebelled, threw over a few governments, but had little to no plan in how to proceed, causing chaos to reign.

And yes, Wilders is a dick. That so many people are willing to vote for him is kinda disturbing.
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by daisy » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:53 am

Twelve Boats wrote:feminism rules. palestine is right. the people of the middle east have every reason in the world to be angry at the united states.

the end
that's all the correct opinions
This.

Zionists make me want to cry.

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism and The Middle-East Unrest

Post by MysteriousLad » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:16 pm

Ok IS is moved to a later date. Feminism end 1.5 weeks earlier.
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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Narts » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:24 pm

You know, if you want to spark actual debate, you need to do more than just come up with some random topic and tell people to debate it.

At the very least you could try and choose a topic that has a good chance of being controversial, as well as interesting to the people frequenting the forum.

Better yet, you could kick off the conversation by presenting your actual thoughts on the matter.

Is there something in particular that interests or puzzles you about this topic of "feminism" so that you think it is important to discuss here?

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Dragonite » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:33 pm

Didn't he ask for suggestions, which I provided + posts? He's managing the topic, but he doesn't have to start everything on his own.

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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Narts » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:41 pm

Well, you attack feminism then, you rapist, so we can get this party started

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Dragonite » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:08 pm

But I don't want to get banned. :(

On a serious note, I ended up on Emma Watson's twitter just now, and she's spearheading a good campaign right now. General 'feminism makes both genders much happier and more free in the end' message. Made me smile for a bit, I think it's the message most effective if the focus lies on positive,equal cooperation.

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Bonesy » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:17 pm

feminists took away my video games

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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Narts » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:38 pm

Thanks Obama

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Dragonite » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Something else though: Is it really needed to bother with date deadlines? It sounds much better to let the conversations flow naturally and only put down a ending date if the situation would require it.

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MysteriousLad
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by MysteriousLad » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:55 pm

Yeah, If I see a topic die I'll leave it open until the deadline, however if it's still going strong I'll let it continue.
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by Dragonite » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:28 am

So, topic change time? There was posting going on last week about Islam/IS which I may pick up again. Reading stuff about Bill Maher facing of against Ben Affleck about Islam right now, made me remember to check this.

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MysteriousLad
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: Feminism (Ends 1 October)

Post by MysteriousLad » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:39 am

Dragonite wrote:So, topic change time? There was posting going on last week about Islam/IS which I may pick up again. Reading stuff about Bill Maher facing of against Ben Affleck about Islam right now, made me remember to check this.
Ah, crumpets I forgot.
ISIS and Radical Islamics now started; ends 26th of October. (Or earlier if it dies.)
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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Narts » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Again, I fail to see what there is to actually debate. What is the huge controversy here?

Look, these people are a bunch of blood-thirsty savages and war criminals. Their endgame is to not just destroy our freedoms and our western way of life, but to literally destroy us.

They fully deserve the short and brutish fate that awaits them.

I'd love to see someone here defend them.

Let me guess, the next topic will be Hitler and the existence of the Holocaust?

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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Bonesy » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:43 pm

hitler's chicken sandwich and the pollocaust

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MysteriousLad
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by MysteriousLad » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:04 am

Narts wrote:Again, I fail to see what there is to actually debate. What is the huge controversy here?

Look, these people are a bunch of blood-thirsty savages and war criminals. Their endgame is to not just destroy our freedoms and our western way of life, but to literally destroy us.

They fully deserve the short and brutish fate that awaits them.

I'd love to see someone here defend them.

Let me guess, the next topic will be Hitler and the existence of the Holocaust?
You could debate Draggy wether or not ISIS is worth debating.
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Welcome to the optimistic world of WWN :D

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Dragonite » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:25 am

I had a small conversation with Treed going on last week, may finish that. Although I'm starting to think a setup like this may prove a little to much, WWN for the most part shares the same views. Throughout the years , religion is the only thing that keeps popping up.The most controversial aspect of the whole IS debacle is what the relation between their radical Islam and mainline Islam is. Treed also mentioned Gays in Uganda, which also relates to a similar question.

I had a reply in mind, and will write up that one later. If this topic dies out after that, so be it.

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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Treedweller » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:16 am

Nah, I don't wanna discuss this further, Dragonite, so you'll be talking into air. You know how I feel.

I do think you have a lot of self-examination to do. Maybe start by asking yourself this: why, as a white, European male, do I immediately associate Islam - a monotheistic religion with a clear Judeo-Christian lineage - with its crumpets and most radical manifestations, but don't do the same for Christianity? Because, really, the main difference between Islam and Christianity/Judaism is that lots of brown people practice Islam and white people find that scary, so white people go out of their way to report in their media when a few brown people be actin' all cray. Then, go ahead and ask: why do I do the same thing with feminism - collapsing it with its most radical manifestations? You'll find that you're discrediting ideologies that you fear.

And no, I don't need to see you work out the answer to those questions here. I've already done it for you, all while stylishly concluding this topic.

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Sven

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Sven » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:13 pm

10/10 treed the selfhating liberal shows us our privilege

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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Treedweller » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:06 pm

You can also hire me for birthday parties and graduation celebrations.

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Dragonite » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:08 pm

Well, for all of my white male privilege, I at least can claim I don't sit in my ivory tower not willing to discuss anything.

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Treedweller

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Treedweller » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:14 pm

My tower is actually a light ochre.

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MysteriousLad
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by MysteriousLad » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:29 pm

Treedweller wrote:My tower is actually a light ochre.
You a wizard or something?
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Twelve Boats » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:09 am

ain't nothing to discuss when one side is right and one side is wrong

"there's two sides to every argument" is a crumpets narrative spewed by a corrupt media
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Linkman » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:32 am

Even if one has the belief the discussion is settled, surely it is worth it to try and educate the other side rather than simply not discussing?

I doubt anyone will admit in the middle of the debate they are wrong, but the seed of doubt will be planted and it might just grow into reason. I know it happens to me, and I'm stubborn as a mule.

So yeah, maybe one side is right and one side is wrong but that's no argument to tell anyone.
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Narts
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Narts » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:12 am

what is the other side, anyway

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Dragonite
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Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Dragonite » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:00 am

Since Treed brought up Christianity, I suppose that if I put this thing in a wider context, it's that I'm still developing in how I got about being very critical of religion. I'm disapointed Treed saw it fit to put terms like ''fearing brown people'' into my mouth, while also repeating his stock White European male line again.

Well, I shall be blunt. Yes, I do think Islam in some ways has relations to IS. I don't mean all of Islam with this though(more on that later). The current issue in Europe is that thousands of teens/young adult Muslims are somehow enticed to join a openly violent organisation, and if this war is over, some of them might return, and preform a terrorist act. I don't blindly fear all Muslims because of this. However, some visitors of the Jewish Museum in Brussels were shot last May by somebody who has been radicalized while fighting in the ME. I don't get a kick of being a bigot. But is a thing that happened, and Europe needs to take it seriously without getting into a blind panic against all Muslims(which Wilders likes to do, and I dislike him for that).

The next bit is abstract, my (developing) opinion, and I don't mean to offend by it With both Christianity and Islam, I don't believe a true version of those religions exists, since I don't believe in their divine orgin. There's only the holy books, which the writers had a specific meaning for(and what the specific meaning might be is also difficult to say at times), and the current believers. The Islam/Christianity is what believers throughout the ages think it is. A simple sentence, but I understand the concept behind is is so huge it's almost useless. I also think religions are incoherent because of this. Both peace and hate can be drawn from them. Back to radical Islam, IS and such draw into specific bits out of the Quran, and the history of Islam itself. A caliphate has existed before through the means of war, so there's the idea it should happen again. This is the specific part of Islam I think IS has a clear link to. But it's not the Islam most people in the world believe in.As I said, Islam is incoherent. And do agree the west has messed around with the middle east in such a manner that this kind of hate has a fertile soil. A lot of Muslims don't want anything to do with this kind of violence. Their Islam is another gradation. What I hope will happen is that moderate Muslims will rise up against all the hate and push radical versions of Islam into obscurity. That the whole of the Middle-East will become a free and righteous place to live. Why wouldn't I want this?

But yeah, I said I'm cynical before. It's more complex then this obliviously. There's the huge Sunni/Shia divide.(did that really start with a religious rift though? I lack the knowledge to be sure.) There's the big question of how traditional sharia law should be applied in a modern free Islamic society. Feminism also has work to do in the area. Again, I'm hoping a moderate form of Islam gains hold in the area, and that one day those issues I can be resolved. Make it happen. If anything of the preceding was bigoted, prove me wrong. People like Wilders only care about getting the evul Muslims out of their country, and well... it lacks much rationale aside from that. Islam is just a singe palette to them. I'm critical of Islam, but some bits I hate, others I just don't like very much, other stuff about it pretty good, much like Christanity.

Okay, I admit being the atheist type, and I technically want religion of any kind not to have influence whatsoever. However, that does feel uncomfortable to say, let alone being pushy about that being The Only Right Thing into people's faces. Christianity in Europe is rapidly shrinking in influence. It's also a acceptable target by this point in time. There's plenty of Christianity I could grill, especially because I'm more familiar with the specifics.I'm still angry about being taught to respect something like the Old Testament while there's so much nonsense and brutal violence in it. Moderate Christians still don't face that honestly. The same logic might apply to the Quran, but I haven't really been able to read it, and I'm unsure how to approach doing so, so I'm hesitant going all-out on it. And Especially in the USA there are many things weird things going on with Christians, and I've heard snippets of what evangelicals are pulling in Uganda.Islam is far more controversial to be critical of. It's easy to end up being a labeled a bigot, or a left-winged Muslim-cuddler who turns a blind eye to any flaws that wouldn't get accepted if western people did it. That's exactly why I stirred this up in the first place. I get so many input, especially with all the Atheist sites I frequent(who often post stuff on both religions)And maybe this wall of text is indeed talking to air, but I wanted it out of my system, and maybe somebody will trash it in short order. Tjhat's totally fine. This is how I think right now, if I can be persuaded something is wrong, I change.

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Sven

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by Sven » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:12 pm

muslims are terrorists you heard it from dragonite first.

daisy
Rank: Crucified in the Great Meme War

Re: WWN's Debate Topic: ISIS and Radical Islamics (Ends 29

Post by daisy » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:26 am

I'm not sure about the exact dates, but Islam is 400-600 years younger than Christianity, and Christianity spent a good 1000 years terrorising the most of Europe with witchcraft and heresy hunts, not to mention the crusades. Besides, this is a political conflict masquerading as a religious one. Sure, religion is a factor, but so is Israel, so is US involvement with Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, so is Turkey, etc. If you had Iraqi troops marching down your street you'd be fudge pissed off too. I'm not defending ISIS, but you have to see it from their perspective, or at least try to.

You know how ISIS keep changing their name? First ISIS, then IS, then ISIL? Well, how about everyone else starts calling them something like, like "Bunch of Wankers", or "Bow" for short, and refuse to call them anything else? It'd really hurt their morale.

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