Brexit

WWN's Social Lounge. The place to come and chill out for a relaxed conversation about life and stuff, or some more serious debates.
User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Brexit

Post by Linkman » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am

Yes? No? Why?

I love hearing WWN's take on this, it enlightens me in forms the media never can. Kilty, Bogman, GoD, Sniffit? Opinions?

What about you, dutchies and frenchies, how do you feel?
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

User avatar
Bonesy
Rank: Dog Peddler
3DS Code: 0318 8318 0000
Location: Arid Zone

Re: Brexit

Post by Bonesy » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:03 am

the brexits are ukip tier nuts, they already killed a PM

User avatar
Dragonite
Rank: My face is beaming.
Location: the netherlands(mostly)

Re: Brexit

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:41 am

Bog is pro-brexit I believe.

User avatar
Bonesy
Rank: Dog Peddler
3DS Code: 0318 8318 0000
Location: Arid Zone

Re: Brexit

Post by Bonesy » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:40 am

oh boy

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:09 am

I believe I've already gone into this, and, in the nicest possible way, I can speak for myself, Draggy. Maybe it's because I'm surrounded by this stuff every day now, as every Briton probably is, but it's getting a bit tiring at this point. I just want it to be over.

UKIP (and the media) needs to fudge off with painting everyone who's for Brexit as a right-wing racist loon. If anything it should be the other way around as the EU is an extremely capitalist organisation and is the friend of the corporation and the bank first. Just imagine if we were allowed to put all our banker criminals in jail in 2008, like Iceland did!

Tbh I believe the liberal left are being duped. Are we seriously going to vote for an immigration system where the white European is treated better than any other nationality? Where the exclusive nature of the trade club keeps developing African countries in a state of poverty? Do we actually think that the EU is the basis for our workers' rights? (It's not - most of them date back to the 1920s, 40s and 50s.)

It's all a lot of media twisting. No thinking person without vested interests can be remain, except perhaps SNP supporters after another Scottish referendum. No one would vote to join it if we weren't already a member.

Turkey can also GTFO. We are effectively in a political union with Turkey. Lol. You couldn't make this crumpets up.

EDIT: I don't mean to sound angry or confrontational, but it is very draining to maintain a temporary political truce with people like Nigel Farage just because the BBC (and therefore everyone else) seems to think he's got a monopoly on the arguments.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: Brexit

Post by Xenesis » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:43 am

daisy wrote:Just imagine if we were allowed to put all our banker criminals in jail in 2008, like Iceland did!
I somehow doubt that would have happened, even if the UK wasn't part of the EU at the time.

Still, the referendum is very soon, isn't it? Like a week? At least it'll be over either way. (Which is kind of how I'm feeling about our Election).
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:55 am

4 days.

Iceland did it. There's no reason why the UK couldn't. Instead we had to bail them out by law.

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: Brexit

Post by Xenesis » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:57 am

Not so much a couldn't as a wouldn't, I'd expect.

None of the other Western countries punished their bankers either and they lacked the entanglements of the EU. As political systems we're incredibly soft on white-collar crime. Iceland was a standout precisely because they did it (and all of us should probably have followed suit, but we didn't).
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:22 am

The option being there would have at least led to a conversation on the topic though, beyond "hey why don't we do that?! Oh we can't, nevermind."

User avatar
Terragent
Rank: Cussing Aussie
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: Brexit

Post by Terragent » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:49 am

So, uh, do you have any reason to believe that EU law prevented the UK from pursuing sanctions against bankers post-GFC? Because I'm inclined to doubt that there is any.

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:48 pm

The EU is not based on pure Randian economics, and is therefore evil and must be destroyed.

User avatar
scraggypunk
Rank: legendary cartographer
Location: deoxy knight

Re: Brexit

Post by scraggypunk » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:38 pm

iceland is cool, but you can always outdo them

instead of arresting all the bankers, execute them
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:15 pm


Spent a quarter of the hour rolling on the floor laughing.

The final 'point' is however why I think England is better off leaving. It'd make the EU more stable because the British lose their vote and can no longer screw the reforms the EU needs to make over.
My sig is a void.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:42 pm

Terragent wrote:So, uh, do you have any reason to believe that EU law prevented the UK from pursuing sanctions against bankers post-GFC? Because I'm inclined to doubt that there is any.
Yes. In joining the EU, a member country agrees to bail out any failing bank in the name of a stable economy. Greece couldn't afford to do that, which is why it got in so much trouble with Germ- I mean, the EU. Iceland let them fail, as we should have done, starting with Northern Rock.

Thunderwalker raises something I talked about before in the hijacked Donald Trump topic - the UK doesn't like being in the EU and even half the remain camp see it as a necessary evil. We're sort of half-in, half-out and can't really commit. (thank goodness)

EDIT: I usually like John Oliver but in that he seems to have developed a liking for neoliberal economics. MOAR MONEY = ethical. Right. Let's go rob another oil-rich country while we're at it, yeah?

User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:07 am

I am unfamiliar with the European financial situation for the 2008 crisis--but from what I gathered, letting Lehmann go broke in the US had such a ripple effect that any way you look at it, it was a bad move.

"Let them fall" sounds good in theory and hits that justice nerve for all of us, but the actual effects in the economy are massive. I don't think it would have been a good idea.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:15 am

It was not a "move".

It's just what should happen.

Government should keep its greasy fingers out of economics no matter what.

BTW there is no need for barbaric practices like executing bankers if you set up the economy so that they simply starve to death when they go broke with billions of debt like stupid people unfit to survive should.

Actually, if drinking water is private property they'd probably dehydrate first.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:24 am

Linkman wrote:I am unfamiliar with the European financial situation for the 2008 crisis--but from what I gathered, letting Lehmann go broke in the US had such a ripple effect that any way you look at it, it was a bad move.

"Let them fall" sounds good in theory and hits that justice nerve for all of us, but the actual effects in the economy are massive. I don't think it would have been a good idea.
Iceland's doing great now.

User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:43 am

Narts wrote:It was not a "move".

It's just what should happen.

Government should keep its greasy fingers out of economics no matter what.

BTW there is no need for barbaric practices like executing bankers if you set up the economy so that they simply starve to death when they go broke with billions of debt like stupid people unfit to survive should.

Actually, if drinking water is private property they'd probably dehydrate first.
It was absolutely a move, and one that didn't go well.

Bog: is your economy in any way comparable to Iceland's? Like, Iceland made due with 4.5 billion in loans from that article you posted. That allowed it to keep its economy from going to hell like Spain's or Greece's. Can you see how that would be much harder for the UK simply because the size of your economy makes borrowing from the IMF a much heavier burden?
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:52 am

If George Osborne can borrow more in six years than any Labour chancellor combined (he has) then I don't see where the problem would be.

User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:02 am

I am in your side politically in the sense I would want Britain to choose the path that benefits its people rather than its corporations and banks.

But I do fail to see how exiting the European Union is better than remaining, at least economically; and I don't see much benefit politically either. Except maybe if you'd want to change foreign policy.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:17 am

Leaving would have a negative effect on some parts of the economy, but I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. Membership of the EU gives us access to cheaper (yet declining) trade deals with mainland Europe, at the expense of cheaper trade with other, perhaps developing, countries. We have ignored the Commonwealth too, which I think the UK almost has a moral responsibility to have a good relationship and trade with. There is a reason why every single financial organisation and bank out there is pro remain.

Are we seriously going to trust the guys who took us into the 2008 crisis? Who wanted the UK to join the Euro? The same people who said the UK would be free of debt by 2015 if we elected them? With every single one of their economic forecasts having been incorrect? It's utter madness.

In any case, my decision to vote leave is not based on local economics, but on ethics. We aren't the only country in the world, and the EU is run by crooks. In that sense, yes I do want a change in foreign policy. Don't tell me that the Iraq invasion wasn't motivated primarily by economics / oil.

User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:21 am

What ensures you that leaving the European union would lead to such progressive changes in foreign policy? From what you tell me it's a very likely possibility that the right-wing nuts that advocate 'Britain First' talk louder and your country becomes even more crooked and racist than you accuse the EU to be. You might just be this close to getting your own Trump.

The fact that whatever radical idea comes out of your parliament has to go through Brussels is a very effective safeguard. Have you considered that?
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:13 am

You mean the Brussels that is increasingly drifting further and further to right? With parties that use the Nazi salute? Time to abandon ship instead of attempting to bail it out with thimbles.

What you talk about is arguably happening in the UK right now, but when people start voting for what they don't want out of fear is when democracy itself ceases to function as intended. And while we're on the topic of democracy, people seriously think that what would be good and agreeable for, say, Italy, would be good for Poland, which would be good for the UK, etc. There's a reason borders exist.

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:32 am

Democracy does not function, period.

Just listen to yourself; who are you to say all these people who think Poland and UK are the same thing are wrong.

They are many, therefore they must be right. Are you disrespecting the will of the people?

You're thinking on the macro scale when the same applies on the individual scale and inside one country. How come your neighbour or someone living in the next city should have any more power over you and your life than everyone in Italy? The answer is, they shouldn't. No one should.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:48 am

You are correct - democracy does suck. I'd love to hear your solution or alternative. :)

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:16 pm

Privatize everything.

User avatar
Bonesy
Rank: Dog Peddler
3DS Code: 0318 8318 0000
Location: Arid Zone

Re: Brexit

Post by Bonesy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:18 pm

uk politicians need to kiss more babies and pet more dogs and quit bickering like ninnies

ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:36 pm

daisy wrote:You mean the Brussels that is increasingly drifting further and further to right? With parties that use the Nazi salute? Time to abandon ship instead of attempting to bail it out with thimbles.
The second article refers to Great Britain having such a party too, led by Nick Griffin.

Besides, you guys have the UKIP, which is pretty similar to a lot of parties on the far right in Europe (like Geert Wilder's pet project, and even Front National the way it is led currently). It's a question of time before UKIP gets a scandal of its own to deal with.

Don't think those far right parties are something of the mainland only.

In the history of Europe there are always been frictions between the far right and left sides of the political spectrum as either one of them or both have a tendency to grow rapidly shortly after economical recessions like the ones we have been in after the market crashed in 2008. Note - the previous two occassions in which we had similar circumstances, led to the First and Second World War, respectively. That was, without the EU. Dunno, I think I prefer the EU to be there.


Note that Hitler was also democratically voted for so yeah....


Yep, democracy does suck, and I'm personally in favor of an undemocratic pseudo-aristocratic council at least on macro-economic level. On local level democracy (ie, electing the mayor and/or the town council) is fine because everybody understands what you are voting for (well, mostly) and it affects the local community only anyway. But on a national level, democracy can seriously f*ck itself, especially in times when complicated decisions have to be made. On an even larger scale (either when ruling a very large single country, like the USA, or China, or a group of countries like the EU), democracy is obviously even worse.
My sig is a void.

User avatar
Bonesy
Rank: Dog Peddler
3DS Code: 0318 8318 0000
Location: Arid Zone

Re: Brexit

Post by Bonesy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:06 pm

greatest world nation USA USA USA

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:22 pm

Narts wrote:Privatize everything.
but who will build the roadz
ThunderWalker wrote: The second article refers to Great Britain having such a party too, led by Nick Griffin.
Yes, and that it's falling apart. Seriously man, do your research. BNP representation:

Image

Wikipedia. And Nick Griffin was fired. Come on dude, do me the courtesy of looking things up before you post about them. They're nothing.
Besides, you guys have the UKIP, which is pretty similar to a lot of parties on the far right in Europe (like Geert Wilder's pet project, and even Front National the way it is led currently). It's a question of time before UKIP gets a scandal of its own to deal with.
UKIP always has scandals lol. Farage wants to encourage immigration from Asia and has publicly denounced both Le Pen and Wilders.
Don't think those far right parties are something of the mainland only.
Well the only success they seem to have here is that they sometimes manage to infiltrate UKIP and are promptly kicked out. :)

ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:45 pm

daisy wrote:
Wikipedia. And Nick Griffin was fired. Come on dude, do me the courtesy of looking things up before you post about them. They're nothing.
Sorry, thought you had used more recent articles. Only now I saw the one about Golden Dawn was two years old. But yeah, it did not really gain traction.

UKIP always has scandals lol. Farage wants to encourage immigration from Asia and has publicly denounced both Le Pen and Wilders.
Yeah but they have similarities as well, mostly being against the EU. Wilders also does not mind Asians immigrating I think, he mostly complains about Arabs and East Europeans (now I think of it, he never said something about Asians). I believe Wilders is more dangerous though, considering he runs his party like a dictatorship. I don't want to know how he would run the Netherlands.

And ofcourse the number of scandals, then, considering how many of these Wilders seems to accumulate :P

Besides, even Wilders and Le Pen are nowhere as far to the right as the Golden Dawn in Greece.
Well the only success they seem to have here is that they sometimes manage to infiltrate UKIP and are promptly kicked out. :)
Wilders has open conflicts with his members as well, but these members usually leave with another scandal in their wake.
However, due to Wilders' strong Jewish sympathies (and the fact that he visits Israël regularly), Neo-nazi's and a few other groups on the very far right do not associate with him.
My sig is a void.

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:25 am

BUT IF SLAVERY IS ABOLISHED WHO WILL PICK ALL THE COTTON

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:10 am

lol narts I was being sarcastic

User avatar
Dragonite
Rank: My face is beaming.
Location: the netherlands(mostly)

Re: Brexit

Post by Dragonite » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:09 am

I'm sure hoping Narts is usually sarcastic.

ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:50 am

I'm pretty sure he is.

If not... well, I have seen worse. A guild leader in a game I used to play went far above and beyond of the point of insanity and makes Narts look like a cute kitten.
My sig is a void.

User avatar
Narts
Rank: jätkä on blade runner

Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:10 am

I would like to think I am a cute kitten.

User avatar
Pkdragon
Rank: very chuuni

Re: Brexit

Post by Pkdragon » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:34 am

besides

he's right
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

daisy
Rank: literally hitler

Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:29 am

polling day

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD

Re: Brexit

Post by Xenesis » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:55 pm

Make sure you get a democracy sausage.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
Linkman
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Master of Fiction

Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:59 pm

Go go go!
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Multivac [Bot] and 0 guests