Brexit

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Bonesy
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Re: Brexit

Post by Bonesy » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:43 am


ThunderWalker
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Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:22 am

Oh boy... rofl...

Most of them have obscene names - guess that's common on dating sites? Dunno, I avoid those like the plague.

Despite that, some of them actually give a thoughtful response.

And then there's that guy that responds with:
"I'm always reluctant to withdraw from anything."
"I prefer putting in."


Really, wtf... I sincerly hope those are chatbots.
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Terragent
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Re: Brexit

Post by Terragent » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:57 am

Well it's looking painfully close. BBC currently has Leave at 51% with about a third of the votes counted.

England has a solid leave lead, Scotland has a solid remain lead - neither is surprising. I'm a little surprised to see Wales voting strongly for Leave, though.

bog2

Re: Brexit

Post by bog2 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:15 pm

Official forecast is a victory for leave :D against the odds

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Xenesis
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Re: Brexit

Post by Xenesis » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:25 pm

Scotland's gonna be pissed.
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MobiusReactor
Location: Scotland

Re: Brexit

Post by MobiusReactor » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:29 pm

Xenesis wrote:Scotland's gonna be pissed.
Can confirm.

Anyone seen the value of the GBP over the last few hours?
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Xenesis
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Re: Brexit

Post by Xenesis » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:33 pm

MobiusReactor wrote:Anyone seen the value of the GBP over the last few hours?
Largest one-day fall in the GBP since the GFC, apparently.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

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Terragent
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Re: Brexit

Post by Terragent » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:14 pm

That's pretty much the end of the UK, then.

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Narts
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Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:09 pm

rip eu

the dominoes are falling

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scraggypunk
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Re: Brexit

Post by scraggypunk » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:48 pm

fascists taking over the uk
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Re: Brexit

Post by bog2 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:19 pm

Cameron gone bye bye

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onewaystreet
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Re: Brexit

Post by onewaystreet » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:20 pm

Well, this should make my trip to London next week a bit more interesting
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
thefalman wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Including having SEX? :o
I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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monkymeet
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Re: Brexit

Post by monkymeet » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:09 pm

cheaper visit i guess?
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Pkdragon
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Re: Brexit

Post by Pkdragon » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:19 pm

so the big question on americans minds right now is

this better not affect our doctor who
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Linkman
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Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:19 am

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MobiusReactor
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Re: Brexit

Post by MobiusReactor » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 am

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ThunderWalker
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Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:06 am

Oh dear. And lol @ the above. Five things that even my cat could predict.

It's a wicked double-edged sword that stuck Europe and there is no telling in how this is going to end.

I think the EU will need to reconstruct itself - well, they already needed to do that - and it may actually be a lot easier without the UK throwing wrenches everywhere.

UK has opened a huge Box of Pandora - Scotland will likely become independent or at the very least be a source of huge unrest for the next decade, the Pound will plummet, and many influental companies currently residing in London will look for a new place to settle and London will lose a lot of influence. Jobs will disappear, especially in the capital.

The question is: Can they close it [Pandora's Box] in time?
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Dragonite
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Re: Brexit

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:24 am

It seems the financial market has managed to stay sane. I'll be waiting for Bog's detailed take on the situation.

Call it being swayed at a young age, but I always liked the idea of the EU. It's sad to see it hated like this. I've resigned myself a bit with the faillures though. The EU's leadership is increasingly out of tune with anti-EU sentiments, a large portion of the population doesn't consent the the EU's powers, and there's no real safeguard to deal with the differences between member states.

I hoped it wouldn't come to this, but now it's a practical reality, I'm mostly really curious. Will it do good or bad for the UK and the EU? The dice have been cast, and now we can finally see what the truth is like. I doubt things like the free market and free movement will be gone forever though. If the UK does bad, it might get thrown a bone, and if it does good, the entire EU might see a reform into something that's a attractive option for the UK to join. But the prologue to all this will be Scotland all over again.

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Linkman
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Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:09 am

Spain just had the largest stock market dip in its history.

"Stay sane"?
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
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Dragonite
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Re: Brexit

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:27 am

Linkman wrote:Spain just had the largest stock market dip in its history.

"Stay sane"?
From what I've read it could've been much worse. The market had a huge recoil, but recovered a bit later in the day. That might not be true for spain however.

daisy
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Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:06 am


onewaystreet wrote:Well, this should make my trip to London next week a bit more interesting
Nothing will change for at least another 2 years that will affect you as a tourist, except cheaper £s. Come say hi!
Linkman wrote:anti-intellectualism meme because of a michael gove quote
I didn't vote leave because of anything Michael Gove, Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage said. I don't want to be associated with them. See earlier in the thread for my reasoning, which no particular group represented.
MobiusReactor wrote:Nigel Farage starts the morning by retracting the £350m per week to the NHS claim.
Farage isn't in government. It's not for him to retract.
MobiusReactor wrote:Daniel Hannan then retracts the claim that leaving EU will reduce immigration.
They never made this claim. What was claimed is that a leave vote will make it easier to control immigration and potentially reduce it, which is different. Farage actually wants to encourage immigration from Asia. I personally have no issue with immigration and it had very little bearing on my choice to vote leave.
MobiusReactor wrote:£100b wiped off pensions, ISAs, etc on the FTSE.
Yup. So what's the point? No one said that a leave vote would be initially good for the economy - they said the opposite. I said the opposite too, and frankly it's the least of my concerns as economics =/= morality as discussed earlier in the thread.
MobiusReactor wrote:PM resigns without mapping out a plan for implementing the results of the referendum.
This is no fault of the leave campaign. Cameron pushed for remain (having initially been for leave a few years ago) and has always been a two-faced tit. Although to be fair, it has been less than 24 hours since the result came through.

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Narts
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Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:17 am

It is neither a good nor a bad thing. The UK will still not become a pure Objectivist state, at least not initially. The entire government needs to go for this to become a possibility. More propaganda will also probably need to be spread to indoctrinate the populace first.

As for Europe, this merely accelerates the EU's imminent collapse, but it's something that was inevitable anyway. Now that UK has set a precedent, several malcontents will likely follow the example and set up their own referendums to leave the sinking ship sooner than later. This will have a domino effect which will split and fragment the entire union into irrelevancy.

The one to benefit the most from this is Putin. The sooner the EU collapses, the sooner the sanctions on him will be lifted as the former member states turn to Russia for economic stability. While Europe is in turmoil, he will likely accelerate his subversive operations and make sure the new governments that arise will be compatible with Russian interests. Maybe he'll take the opportunity to grab some more land. He has no reason not to - he's already learned that the most he'll suffer is that the western media portrays him as a bogeyman for maybe one month then forgets about it. He has probably played out this scenario in his mind years in advance. I wouldn't be surprised if he, at least in part, engineered all of this. Unlike the European leaders, he plays the long game.

Well done, Bog. Trump is proud of you.


ThunderWalker
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Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:33 am

The Domino-effect Narts describes is the thing Europe needs to prevent at all costs. But if the European states can remember why the EU was formed and why it was maintained, it will not collapse. There are quite a few countries that want a strong EU to either keep their economy flourishing (Netherlands, Germany), need to be in it due to peace requirements (Germany and France), countries that need it to keep their economy merely functioning (most South-European countries), and countries that are afraid of Russia (Baltic states, Poland).

All these countries have reasons to remain in the EU and to bolster its strength, either economical (almost all countries), political (East-European countries, Germany), and military (East-European states).

As such, if Europe is willing to push ahead, Europe will actually be stronger without the UK, as they would veto any serious attempt.
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Kireato

Re: Brexit

Post by Kireato » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:06 am

I think the Brexit could be a great thing. I'm hopeful it'll bring good changes to the European Union.
Narts wrote:As for Europe, this merely accelerates the EU's imminent collapse, but it's something that was inevitable anyway.


When are we talking about exactly?
Narts wrote:Now that UK has set a precedent, several malcontents will likely follow the example and set up their own referendums to leave the sinking ship sooner than later. This will have a domino effect which will split and fragment the entire union into irrelevancy.
Are you talking about Scotland?
Thunderwalker wrote:The Domino-effect Narts describes is the thing Europe needs to prevent at all costs.
Do the other EU-sceptic movements even have enough support for that?
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Narts
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Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:22 am

I'm talking about the countries whose economies are already deep in the crumpets and aren't coming back anytime soon, and are only sinking deeper. e.g. Greece, Italy. Not that leaving EU will save them, but at least it gives them a way to flip a finger at Brüssels, which I guess could give them some perverse satisfaction while spiralling back to stone age.

Also countries whose economies are showing signs of being well on their way to follow Greece and Italy and who have a sizeable anti-Euro contingent already voted into their government and enjoying widespread support among the population (Finland)

With UK exiting, the feeble efforts to rejuvenate the failing economies by feeding them free money will have an even smaller fund to raise from, and with every exiting economy it will get smaller.

As for when, I think I already read about the likes of Le Pen and Wilders tweeting about how their countries need to immediately follow up with holding their own referendums. I don't think we're far off from it actually happening somewhere.

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Joey

Re: Brexit

Post by Joey » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:23 am

hey guys remember the Better Together campaign hahahahahahahahahahaha

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Joey

Re: Brexit

Post by Joey » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:25 am

all right time to read through this huge thread to see how dumb people are

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Linkman
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Re: Brexit

Post by Linkman » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:29 am

I really wanted to hear Kilty's take really :( I saw fal's take on facebook.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
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ThunderWalker
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Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:50 am

Kireato wrote:
Do the other EU-sceptic movements even have enough support for that?
Not as of yet. However, with the Brexit being a thing, there is a risk other eurosceptic movements feel empowered and gain enough momentum.

However, quite a few of the eurosceptic movements are boxed in by cordon sanitaires (ie; even if they win an election, they won't find coalition partners). Geert Wilders is one of those - he is very likely going to win next election, but that means he only has a quarter of the seats. He alienated his prefered coalition partner a few years ago with an absolutely disgusting move, and Mark Rutte (our prime minister) never really forgave him.
Left- and center have excluded him even before that.

I don't know about the other countries to make an accurate assessment and it's too late for me to do research at this moment, and having learnt my lesson with the Tina Turner incident a few months ago, I'm not going to give an incorrect example again :P
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Pkdragon
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Re: Brexit

Post by Pkdragon » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:01 am

Linkman wrote:I really wanted to hear Kilty's take really :( I saw fal's take on facebook.
Same. And now I'm curious what Fal's take is :O
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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onewaystreet
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Re: Brexit

Post by onewaystreet » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:33 am

daisy wrote:
onewaystreet wrote:Well, this should make my trip to London next week a bit more interesting
Nothing will change for at least another 2 years that will affect you as a tourist, except cheaper £s. Come say hi!
That's mostly what I'm referring too, though it is too bad that I've already booked hotels and things. Could have saved fifty bucks.
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
thefalman wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Including having SEX? :o
I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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HPD
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Re: Brexit

Post by HPD » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:34 am

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Sven

Re: Brexit

Post by Sven » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:36 am

what is the EU classic

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Kireato

Re: Brexit

Post by Kireato » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:39 am

@Narts

If the countries with poor economies leave the EU then we won't have to rejuvenate their economies by feeding them free money?

The Brexit is about leaving the EU, but the UK will still want to have access to the EU market and it will likely become a part of the EEA. So I'm not sure how a member state of the EU in economical difficulty would be giving the EU the finger by leaving. Also, the economy really isn't the only consideration when considering membership to the EU.

You're also not considering the numerous separatist movements in Europe. I'm fairly sure that if Spain or Italy started talks about leaving the EU it would fuel those separatist movements and they do not want that.

So Le Pen and Wilders have tweeted about holding referendums to leave the EU, and you see the imminent collapse of the EU. Well, they've been tweeting and barking about that stuff for more than a decade so I guess imminent would mean sometime in the next 10 years?

@ThunderWalker:

I don't think the eurosceptic movements are feeling empowered right now so much as they should feel they're on the clock to push for a referendum before people get to see the fallback from the Brexit. Anyone who is on the fence about leaving should want to see this Brexit to its conclusion first.

Sure, we've got a cordon sanitaire here in Belgium too. Heck, we apparently introduced that term in parliamentary politics.We've been doing it since the late 1980s, says wikipedia.
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Joey

Re: Brexit

Post by Joey » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:00 am

We are effectively in a political union with Turkey. Lol
there is nothing inherently wrong with this
Are we seriously going to vote for an immigration system where the white European is treated better than any other nationality?
uh, yes? also, do you have any idea how many common sense laws you guys have because of the human rights act? your trans population is pretty terrified right now
No one would vote to join it if we weren't already a member.
HAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW
If anything it should be the other way around as the EU is an extremely capitalist organisation and is the friend of the corporation and the bank first.
I sympathize a lot with this. Like, actually. fudge the EU.
I somehow doubt that would have happened, even if the UK wasn't part of the EU at the time.
Xenesis is almost certainly correct.
The option being there would have at least led to a conversation on the topic though, beyond "hey why don't we do that?! Oh we can't, nevermind."
TAKE IT FROM US, MAN, THIS IS NOT THAT HELPFUL
Spent a quarter of the hour rolling on the floor laughing.
UGH the final segment of john oliver's thing was one of the most unfunny things he's done. also this took twenty minutes and really didn't feel like it had a coherently made conclusion
Let's go rob another oil-rich country while we're at it, yeah?
so i'm laughing at bog a lot but a lot of his frustration is also correct. tony blair should be sent to the hague and the guardian should stop paying him to write whiney articles about how jeremy corbyn is the sun setting on the uk
Are we seriously going to trust the guys who took us into the 2008 crisis?
oh come on you still love us admit it
Leaving would have a negative effect on some parts of the economy, but I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. Membership of the EU gives us access to cheaper (yet declining) trade deals with mainland Europe, at the expense of cheaper trade with other, perhaps developing, countries. We have ignored the Commonwealth too, which I think the UK almost has a moral responsibility to have a good relationship and trade with. There is a reason why every single financial organisation and bank out there is pro remain.
i just wanna say that all of this is fine and well-placed
In that sense, yes I do want a change in foreign policy. Don't tell me that the Iraq invasion wasn't motivated primarily by economics / oil.
i think we all want this but i don't think a brexit will change your military policy much
You might just be this close to getting your own Trump.
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Besides, you guys have the UKIP, which is pretty similar to a lot of parties on the far right in Europe (like Geert Wilder's pet project, and even Front National the way it is led currently). It's a question of time before UKIP gets a scandal of its own to deal with.

Don't think those far right parties are something of the mainland only.
solid points even if nick griffin doesn't exist and ukip is the scandal party
uk politicians need to kiss more babies and pet more dogs and quit bickering like ninnies
how in the world do you think that we look like that right now
so the big question on americans minds right now is

this better not affect our doctor who
fudge doctor who, game of thrones fudge
Five things that even my cat could predict.
your cat can out-predict markets? holy crumpets someone get a hold of his fudge cat
What was claimed is that a leave vote will make it easier to control immigration and potentially reduce it, which is different.
yeah, it's the same idea, but with weasel words. awesome
Farage actually wants to encourage immigration from Asia.
i wonder if he's ever been like "oh they're good at maths" or some nonsense i would be rather surprised if not
Yup. So what's the point? No one said that a leave vote would be initially good for the economy - they said the opposite. I said the opposite too, and frankly it's the least of my concerns as economics =/= morality as discussed earlier in the thread.
i agree with this by and large but also a lot of people are genuinely suffering for now
I think the Brexit could be a great thing. I'm hopeful it'll bring good changes to the European Union.
TALK MORE
When are we talking about exactly?
stop addressing narts on this subject at once
having learnt my lesson with the Tina Turner incident a few months ago
i still can't believe that one, man

i'm very very very soft remain, by the way. i think the UK should leave the EU eventually, and the EU is basically a bastion of crumpets neoliberalism, but doing it right now is a big pain in exchange for not much room to actually capitalize on the leftist possibilities of departure
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scraggypunk
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Re: Brexit

Post by scraggypunk » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:56 pm

neoliberalism is the poison of the soul
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ThunderWalker
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Re: Brexit

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:02 pm

Joey wrote:
Spent a quarter of the hour rolling on the floor laughing.
UGH the final segment of john oliver's thing was one of the most unfunny things he's done. also this took twenty minutes and really didn't feel like it had a coherently made conclusion
Indeed. I cut it off as well but I was still laughing because of everything else and because of how politicians twist words to their advantages.

Parliament =/= circus
Politicians =/= clowns
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Narts
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Re: Brexit

Post by Narts » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:04 pm

Kireato, you are mistaken if you think I am predicting the fall of socialism merely because some muppet tweeted about it yesterday.

Lol@ unakau not wanting you to talk to me. He's jealous and afraid you might find out I'm actually right.

The truth will not be suppressed.

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Joey

Re: Brexit

Post by Joey » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:45 pm

your crumpets is that crumpets that i used to make fun of college freshmen for before they finally were broken
Last edited by Joey on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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daisy
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Re: Brexit

Post by daisy » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:00 pm


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