I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

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Joey Chicago
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I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Joey Chicago » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:08 am

I have a question.

Do you think that it's logical to assume that most people in our legislative branch, not to mention the executive branch, did not read the Patriot Act.

It was made a law 43 days after September 11th, and on Adobe it is 342 pages long. Is it a good idea to use the argument (It's a persuasive essay, so I don't need absolute facts) that hardly anyone has read it?
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Hans Stockmann
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Post by Hans Stockmann » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:27 pm

Did somebody say surveillance?

L-l-look at you, hacker. A p-p-pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you r-run through my corridors-s. H-h-how can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?
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FormicHiveQueen
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Post by FormicHiveQueen » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:49 pm

:andyds: What's a Patriot act?

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NovaCid9
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Post by NovaCid9 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:51 pm

Any of the common people? Yeah, it's a reasonable assumption. Most people don't read thick government documents. But actual Senators and the like? Not a chance. That's pretty much their job. While they might not have, and a lot of people would have you believe they didn't, without hard evidence you really can't make that claim.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:50 pm

Most people in Government probably read it after they break a law. >_>

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Linkman
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Post by Linkman » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:18 pm

NovaCid9 wrote:Any of the common people? Yeah, it's a reasonable assumption. Most people don't read thick government documents. But actual Senators and the like? Not a chance. That's pretty much their job. While they might not have, and a lot of people would have you believe they didn't, without hard evidence you really can't make that claim.
Didn't they interview a congressman who actually confessed he didn't read the Patriot Act on that Michael Moore movie?
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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:31 am

Just read The Transparent Society before you go on a big 1984 rant, mkay?

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:01 am

A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA!?
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:06 am

Terragent wrote:Just read The Transparent Society before you go on a big 1984 rant, mkay?
I'm not going on a 1984 rant, actually.

Also, several people have confessed to not reading it.

Considering the Act was drafted and voted in within a span of 43 days (possibly less), I'm sure that many did not actually read it. 342 pages.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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NovaCid9
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Post by NovaCid9 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:04 am

Assuming a constant reading rate, that's about 8 pages a day, which really isn't all that bad. I mean, if some Senators have come forward and said "Hey, I didn't read this", that's another issue entirely. But unless they have, I really don't think you can make an arguement for the majority not reading it.
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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:23 am

You also forget the time that it took two congressman to draft it. And I believe some have indeed said that they haven't read it. I'll look into that more tomorrow, though.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Hans Stockmann
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Post by Hans Stockmann » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:17 pm

That took you far, far too long to post, Shifty. Also, Image
Image

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FormicHiveQueen
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Post by FormicHiveQueen » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:56 pm

Also,Image Pretty much everything I was going to say just now was said by someone else.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:11 am

If I wasn't asleep/away while the topic had EPIC MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS, I would have said it earlier.

Apart from that, Damn the patriot act.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Sirdangolot5

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:31 am

OK, Una, so you make a topic asking for advice, and then everyone gives it to you, and you counter with your own evidence. Mmmkay.

By the way, Una, you're not doing a report on government surveillance...

GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE IS REPORTING ON YOU!!!!

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:05 am

HOW MANY DAMN TOPICS ARE YOU GOING TO BUMP
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:25 am

Probably OVER 9000!

Sorry, it's a fad in my school now. >_>
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:16 am

Yeah, it's a fad amongst some of my friends now as well.

I usually just reply with OLD'D
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:50 am

Is that pronounced "Olded"?
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:52 am

Actually, it's pronounced Pwned but let's not get into that.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:25 am

...

I pronounced it 'owned' unless it was completely retarded. >_>
Hooded_Miracle wrote:It needs some 'The Devil went down to Georgia,' because I'm pretty sure the devil doesn't like Georgia. >_>
Shift Breaker wrote:No, you're thinking of the Russians.

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onewaystreet
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Post by onewaystreet » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:40 am

I pronounce it owned.

The " 'd " bit gives it extra past-tense influence.
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
thefalman wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Including having SEX? :o
I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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McTool
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Post by McTool » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:45 am

Owned.

Pwnage is pronounced "own-edge." The P is actually an O. It's special that way.
Make good choices

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:52 am

I don't even say Owned out loud.

Well, in my head, I do, and I say Pwned as Punned, even though I know it's just a typo.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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Linkman
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Post by Linkman » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:09 pm

I've always said Pawned. Like you're playing chess and your pawn pwns something. Pwned.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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onewaystreet
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Post by onewaystreet » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:32 pm

En passant.

Damn Frenchies.
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
thefalman wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Including having SEX? :o
I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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Sirdangolot5

Post by Sirdangolot5 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:54 am

Linkman wrote:I've always said Pawned. Like you're playing chess and your pawn pwns something. Pwned.
Same here. What really confuses me is when they put them together with like an apostrophe.

P'0WN'D!

Or something.

Platinum_Dragon
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Re: I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Platinum_Dragon » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:06 am

"Those in Power have the right to Lie."

I forgot where I got that quote, but all newspaper are propaganda, so REAL politicians will not read them. Why read the propaganda that you wrote and think that they are facts? If you already know the facts, then you will not need to read the propaganda. To truly be a person with power is to not be the reader but the writer of newspaper.

A PERSON IN POWER USES THEIR RIGHT TO LIE! and other people are willingly accepting it.
Most topics are 6 months old. It is so tempting to revive them.

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Linkman
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Re: I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Linkman » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:02 am

Stop necrobumping! >_>
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Joey Chicago
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Re: I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:49 am

Platinum_Dragon wrote:"Those in Power have the right to Lie."

I forgot where I got that quote, but all newspaper are propaganda, so REAL politicians will not read them. Why read the propaganda that you wrote and think that they are facts? If you already know the facts, then you will not need to read the propaganda. To truly be a person with power is to not be the reader but the writer of newspaper.

A PERSON IN POWER USES THEIR RIGHT TO LIE! and other people are willingly accepting it.
aren't we a distrusting little pseudo-intellectual
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Guesty

Re: I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Guesty » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:47 am

Joey Chicago wrote:I have a question.

Do you think that it's logical to assume that most people in our legislative branch, not to mention the executive branch, did not read the Patriot Act.

It was made a law 43 days after September 11th, and on Adobe it is 342 pages long. Is it a good idea to use the argument (It's a persuasive essay, so I don't need absolute facts) that hardly anyone has read it?
I doubt it's possible to prove in such a formal essay, considering that even if you take a survey, someone can always question your sample size or the diversity of the people being surveyed.

I strongly recommend against using the point that hardly anyone's read it just because you need things that can be proven with demonstratable facts, not speculation. Depending on the type of paper you're writing, I can see speculation (even if you think it's obvious) being scrutinized.

EDIT: I just realized this topic is really old. Sorry about that. ;_;
Last edited by Guesty on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Dragonite
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Re: I'm doing a report on government surveillance.

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:40 am

It most likely isn't that easy to read either.

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