Today was an offensive day.

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Hooded_Miracle
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Today was an offensive day.

Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:33 am

Not for ME, anyway.

I was just suspended for tomorrow. Damn.

We were discussing how, in America, we have so many different kinds of cultures and belief's that we have to get along. She said New York was a great place for different cultures, because so many different kind of people were there. Someone jokingly said 'like taxi drivers!'. She laughed, but, for once I was actually SERIOUS.

I said 'I can back up this claim. My mom has a guide dog, and when she tried to get a cab in Washington D.C., the Muslim cab driver wouldn't let her on."

And, for some reason, she kept telling me to be quiet.
Before you say anything, she's Christian. I would know. I mentioned Zombie Jesus and she wigged out.

Now, all I was trying to establish was 'We shouldn't respect someone's belief's if they aren't willing to obey the law'. Meaning, it's illegal to treat people with guide dogs differently from someone without one.

She wouldn't even let me finish my sentence, and she laughed at my friends joke, but was mad at my seriousness. So, , in my way of saying 'If you aren't listening to me, you won't hear this' fashion, I went Christian-bashing.

Well, actually, first I told her she was the most easily offended person I ever met, than I told her she's worse than my sister, who's a terrible Christian to begin with, THAN I re-enacted a scene from Family Guy:

"Ooooh, look at me, I'ma Christian, I has a Bible!"

Theeeen I was sent to Detention. Theeeen I was sent home. Theeeen I found out I was suspended tomorrow.

I ain't denying that the Christian bashing was too much, 'cause it probably was. Damn, though, if the first part was wrong.

Treed

Post by Treed » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:48 am

Sooooo, you shouldn't respect someone's religious belief system because they weren't 'obeying' secular laws? what

yeah, you got what you deserved

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:05 am

They weren't going to drive my mom around in their Taxi because she had a dog! A legal, government enforced dog!

THAT'S what ticks me off! It's not their belief's, but the fact they refuse to respect other's rights BECAUSE of their beliefs.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:13 am

You can still respect someone's beliefs if they don't obey the law.

You can be angry at their beliefs, obviously, though(Not being let on a taxi is for black people from the '50s).

However, going Christian bashing was just a bad move. I mean, if you absolutely must, argue, don't mock. That just makes you look like a dumbass. >_>

While I don't believe that being suspended for a day was warranted, you definitely deserved to be punished.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:15 am

Like I said, I was punished by being suspended.

Granted, I asked if I could just be in detention for the rest of the week, but apparently, a teacher has the right to be ignorant. >_>

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:18 am

Not really. Even the way that you word it, it sounds like you flipped out for absolutely no reason.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:21 am

Well, I ain't denying THAT.

I certainly don't think going on a bashing spree was right. I honestly admit that much.

I'm still thinking I refuse to respect anyone who refuses to disobey the law and not help the helpless.

She's legally blind! She has more problems than a lot of us! Refusing to help those with more problems than you is pathetic, no matter what excuse you have.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:26 am

The teacher never disagreed with that. Ever.

She obviously didn't want to get into a weird religious discussion or something of the sort. Maybe she wanted to stay on track.

But again, even in the way that you put it, it looks like your teacher didn't do anything wrong.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:28 am

Hey, that makes no sense.

Someone else said taxi-drivers, I just added on to it. She laughed at what he said, but I was offensive?

I was simply repeating what happened to my mom. I was going to ask why we should respect someone else's belief's when they don't respect others needs, but...

Eh. Guess it didn't come out right. -_-

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:31 am

He made a quick joke.

You led the way to further discussion of taxi drivers, which had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I just think that you were taking part in a conversation that didn't exist.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:35 am

It did exist! I remember the teacher being there, and two other kids who stared at me funny, and getting in trouble.

Yeah, I remember the trouble.

However, I do think it's somewhat ridiculous when we have to bring up religion in class, and I provided a counterpoint to religion in every day life.

You know what? Retrospective sucks. I hate you, Unakau, for making me have retrospective.

Damn you.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:05 am

You brought up religion when there was no reason to bring up religion. >_>

That's what I'm saying.
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"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:14 am

Hey, Dudes.

It's half term over here. :P
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:21 am

I'm pretty sure referring to taxi drivers in New York is referring to someone of SOME belief. -_-

Half-Term? Like, almost over?

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donnytondesterkste
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Post by donnytondesterkste » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:47 am

The clear offense here doesn't have anything to do with Muslims and respecting their beliefs--it's the teacher VOCABULARY OVERLORD a valid FACT (as it stands, you didn't attack the Muslims, you simply told a story about your mother) in the classroom.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:21 pm

Yeah, Donny's got it right. Basically. :/

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Hans Stockmann
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Post by Hans Stockmann » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:39 pm

Tact, motherf­ucker. Do you speak it? Apparentally not. Irony and profanity intended.
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Gameshark

Post by Gameshark » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:04 pm

SHOULD OF BUSTED OUT A BIBLE AND BURNT IT.

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:55 pm

Actually, I never found out what Tact means. :/

No one's ever told me, or I've never encountered it.

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Post by TheInspiration » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:50 am

Not condoning bashing any religion/culture in that manner in class and nor do I want to start bashing Muslims now, but I do find it rather strange you start mocking the Christian religion when it's a Muslim taxi driver you were (rightfully) annoyed about...

Doesn't quite add up.

Oh well, the basic thing is even though your suspension was harsh, you never needed to flip like that and start telling the girl she's a rubbish Christian and so is her sister etc.

Treed

Post by Treed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:37 am

Uhm, his concern wasn't valid because there's nothing in Islamic scripture or tradition that says 'do not pick up blind women in taxis because dogs aren't good', which is why it was stupid he even brought up the fact that the taxi driver was (what he assumed to be) Muslim.

Dumbass

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Post by Linkman » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:01 am

At any rate, isn't the taxi driver allowed to choose who gets to ride his car? He probably refused because dogs get dirt in his car. Not because your mom was blind, nor because he was a muslim. I think he's in his right, I see no problem with that.
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Post by DTaeKim » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:30 am

I was thinking the same thing Linkman; I thought taxi drivers reserved the right to refuse service for any reason.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:52 am

Do you know one of the rules everyone must obey when it comes to Guide Dogs?

No one is to discriminate against a guide dog user for any reason. That includes ANY and EVERYONE.

I have never heard of a taxi driver being allowed to refuse people. I'm also pretty sure my mom has some articles on taxi drivers refusing guide dog users privelage to use the cab.

I'm not particularly happy that no one seems to agree with me. -_-

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:55 am

Treed wrote:Uhm, his concern wasn't valid because there's nothing in Islamic scripture or tradition that says 'do not pick up blind women in taxis because dogs aren't good', which is why it was stupid he even brought up the fact that the taxi driver was (what he assumed to be) Muslim.
Listen to this guy; trust me, he's really cool.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:26 am

HM, a taxi cab driver picks up a lot of people, many of which are allergic to dogs.

Dog dander is probably a good reason.

I'm pretty sure that he wasn't discriminating against blind people.
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"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

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donnytondesterkste
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Post by donnytondesterkste » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:55 am

Linkman wrote:At any rate, isn't the taxi driver allowed to choose who gets to ride his car? He probably refused because dogs get dirt in his car. Not because your mom was blind, nor because he was a muslim. I think he's in his right, I see no problem with that.
Not exactly. I did look into this (and a few other) issues like it, and it's more twisted than freedom of who gets in your car.

Suppose a man gets rushed to the ER because of a heart attack, and the surgeon reads his file and finds that he is Jewish, and says "I'm sorry, I can't do this, you're a Jew." Ethically and legally he is held responsible for that death. Whether he was right in doing so is a different matter, but firstly, there is an authoritative medical standard that states that doctors must not deprive treatment based on sex, religion, age, etc (within reasonable limit).

Now there was an incident where a child was denied treatment for a dangerous but not immediately fatal condition based on beliefs (I believe the doctor was Jewish, the parents pagan or something). It's a slippery slope from here, as if that child had NO option but to get treated by the doctor (who is licensed) then there would be legal repercussions.

It gets even foggier when you have something like a taxi driver, who does answer to a higher authority of the taxi company. The taxi companies do have the "provide equal service without discrimination" policy but note that it prohibits discrimination based on the CLIENT'S status, not the driver's. So the driver may or may not be violating policy and law based on his action, depending on the judicial interpretation. (This is why vague laws suck)

As for the actual Muslim, I'm by no means an expert on Islam but in particular issues where Muslim taxi drivers have denied service it's usually based something on cleanliness (in the holy spiritual way).


Just wanted to clarify a bit, it's being oversimplified here as "the driver can do whatever you're just attacking his beliefs" when the issue is much more complex than just in taxis and just for Muslims.
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Post by TheInspiration » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:03 am

Treed wrote:Uhm, his concern wasn't valid because there's nothing in Islamic scripture or tradition that says 'do not pick up blind women in taxis because dogs aren't good', which is why it was stupid he even brought up the fact that the taxi driver was (what he assumed to be) Muslim.

Dumbass
For me right? Thanks for that lovely comment and very mature way to end an argument...

All I said was I found it a bit strange he was initially complaining about a "Muslim" taxi driver and then starts ranting at another religion.

However that's not the key point. The most important thing is he unnecessarily flipped like that.

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Post by Linkman » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:06 am

I can see your point Donny, and I do agree with it in extreme cases, like in medicine. But in a store, or a taxi, I think the owner is in his right to refuse service for valid reasons (as in, not racism/sexism/anything of the sort.) For example, I think it's perfectly reasonable for a taxi driver to refuse picking up a passenger covered in dog crap. I certainly wouldn't.

EDIT: This example had absolutely nothing to do with HM's mom, it's just an example. Sorry if it sounds a bit offensive.
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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:26 am

TheInspiration wrote:
Treed wrote:Uhm, his concern wasn't valid because there's nothing in Islamic scripture or tradition that says 'do not pick up blind women in taxis because dogs aren't good', which is why it was stupid he even brought up the fact that the taxi driver was (what he assumed to be) Muslim.

Dumbass
For me right? Thanks for that lovely comment and very mature way to end an argument...

All I said was I found it a bit strange he was initially complaining about a "Muslim" taxi driver and then starts ranting at another religion.

However that's not the key point. The most important thing is he unnecessarily flipped like that.
No, I wasn't referring to you, but rather to HM; I didn't even read your post.

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donnytondesterkste
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Post by donnytondesterkste » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:41 am

Linkman wrote:I can see your point Donny, and I do agree with it in extreme cases, like in medicine. But in a store, or a taxi, I think the owner is in his right to refuse service for valid reasons (as in, not racism/sexism/anything of the sort.) For example, I think it's perfectly reasonable for a taxi driver to refuse picking up a passenger covered in dog crap. I certainly wouldn't.

EDIT: This example had absolutely nothing to do with HM's mom, it's just an example. Sorry if it sounds a bit offensive.
Well I can agree with you ethically, I'm just saying that the REAL issue here is whether the taxi company's "freedom of service" policy not only protects against discrimination against the client's beliefs, but also discrimination based upon the employee's beliefs.
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Post by FormicHiveQueen » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:57 am

HM sounds like me from a year ago.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:34 pm

So it's your fault, then?
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Post by TheInspiration » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:52 pm

Treedweller wrote:
TheInspiration wrote:For me right? Thanks for that lovely comment and very mature way to end an argument...

All I said was I found it a bit strange he was initially complaining about a "Muslim" taxi driver and then starts ranting at another religion.

However that's not the key point. The most important thing is he unnecessarily flipped like that.
No, I wasn't referring to you, but rather to HM; I didn't even read your post.
Haha, sorry - did look like it was directed at my post though to me. I'm such a mong.

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RadioShadow
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Re: Today was an offensive day.

Post by RadioShadow » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:19 am

Hooded_Miracle wrote: Well, actually, first I told her she was the most easily offended person I ever met, than I told her she's worse than my sister, who's a terrible Christian to begin with, THAN I re-enacted a scene from Family Guy:

"Ooooh, look at me, I'ma Christian, I has a Bible!"

Theeeen I was sent to Detention. Theeeen I was sent home. Theeeen I found out I was suspended tomorrow.
Let me give you some advise, just because it's funny on TV doesn't mean it's funny in real life. I'm not surprised you got suspended since you went and insulted the teacher and made fun of Christianity. Wasn't a smart move to do since she was a Christian herself.

Hooded_Miracle wrote: We were discussing how, in America, we have so many different kinds of cultures and belief's that we have to get along. She said New York was a great place for different cultures, because so many different kind of people were there. Someone jokingly said 'like taxi drivers!'. She laughed, but, for once I was actually SERIOUS.

I said 'I can back up this claim. My mom has a guide dog, and when she tried to get a cab in Washington D.C., the Muslim cab driver wouldn't let her on."

And, for some reason, she kept telling me to be quiet.
Before you say anything, she's Christian. I would know. I mentioned Zombie Jesus and she wigged out.

Now, all I was trying to establish was 'We shouldn't respect someone's belief's if they aren't willing to obey the law'. Meaning, it's illegal to treat people with guide dogs differently from someone without one.
I can see where you are getting at and I can see why you were upset but did you see the situation happen? First off, does it matter if the taxi driver was a Muslim, Asian, Black, White, Canadian etc? Not really and it seems really unfair to put the blame on someone because of the religion or nationality.

From the looks of it, the taxi driver refused to let your mum on because he didn't want to transport animals. Think about it, if the guide dog had suddenly done it's business in the car, who would end of cleaning it up? The Taxi driver of course. I would be pissed off about having to clean up a passenger's mess.

But just imagine yourself as a taxi driver and image I wanted a ride in your cab but I was wearing smelly cloths, had trash all over me, holding a beer bottle. Would you want me to sit in the back of you cab and drive me to a location? I wouldn't think so.

Unless you can say what the taxi Driver said to your mum, it's a bit hard to say if it was wrong that he wouldn't allow her and the guide dog on. He may have had a good reason and I don't think it was him being discriminated to blind people. Then again, I not totally aware about the rules the Taxi Driver has to obey.

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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:40 am

Are any of you aware that Guide Dogs are trained to not do ANYTHING without the user saying so? They don't make a mess unless the owner takes off their harness, they don't walk or bark unless the owner tells them to after they let the harness off, and they won't cross the street unless the owner says 'forward'.

I'm pretty sure they don't have to worry about the guide dog doing ANYTHING to the cab. -_-

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donnytondesterkste
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Post by donnytondesterkste » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:22 am

Radioshadow, if you've read some of the posts, I've made a point that the fact that the driver is Muslim IS relevant, as there have been issues with guide dogs being refused by religious drivers (esp Muslim). However, it's questionable whether Miracle's case is justifiable.
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SJCrew
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Post by SJCrew » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:12 pm

Hooded_Miracle wrote:They weren't going to drive my mom around in their Taxi because she had a dog! A legal, government enforced dog!

THAT'S what ticks me off! It's not their belief's, but the fact they refuse to respect other's rights BECAUSE of their beliefs.
The hell does beliefs have to do with anything? He didn't want the damn dog in the taxi, so the ride was a no go. Yes, it's fudge up, but you have to understand that it has nothing to do with religion.
Last edited by SJCrew on Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gameshark » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:12 pm

Treedweller wrote:
Treed wrote:Uhm, his concern wasn't valid because there's nothing in Islamic scripture or tradition that says 'do not pick up blind women in taxis because dogs aren't good', which is why it was stupid he even brought up the fact that the taxi driver was (what he assumed to be) Muslim.
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Hooded_Miracle
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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:28 am

SJCrew wrote:
Hooded_Miracle wrote:They weren't going to drive my mom around in their Taxi because she had a dog! A legal, government enforced dog!

THAT'S what ticks me off! It's not their belief's, but the fact they refuse to respect other's rights BECAUSE of their beliefs.
The hell does beliefs have to do with anything? He didn't want the damn dog in the taxi, so the ride was a no go. Yes, it's fudge up, but you have to understand that it has nothing to do with religion.
If the religion he believes in says that dogs are dirty, it is DEFINITELY relevant. -_-

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