Gah, Halloween.....

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Gameshark

Post by Gameshark » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:17 pm

AMERICA, fudge YEAH..... FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY YEAH


*lols at how bad Bog self-pwned himself with his Plato quote*



FREEDOM ISN'T FREE, AMERICA fudge YEAH!

WAL-MART, THE GAP, SLAVERY, THE INTERNET, fudge YEAH!

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:33 pm

What the hell are you talking about? I mean, the only thing to do with America in this topic is like, nothing, so do you just have random thoughts you like to spew?

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Linkman
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Post by Linkman » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:59 pm

WWN is a nuthouse.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:22 pm

This is GS you're talking to, Treed. <_<
TheInspiration wrote:I can pull apart Christian ideas and Terragent makes a very valid point above, however it's not one that proves Christianity false.
Eh? You mean my growing up analogy? It wasn't meant to. I mean, it started by assuming Christianity was true.

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Post by Newbie » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:23 pm

What drama did I miss this time and is there pie
Image
Credit to Sasquatch.
"Well, out loud, I said, "What the ****!?"
However, when I translated it on the internet, it came out, "Oh, it's a game." Lost in translation, you know?" ~ Shadowdude

Powdered Toast Man

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:25 pm

You missed the falmeister's B-day. That is all.

Bog
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:33 pm

DTaeKim wrote:Funny how you use a person who lived before the time of Christ to justify God.
I did that on purpose.

@ Terr: He has his reasons. We aren't meant to know them... yet.


And yay for Fally!

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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:43 pm

No, that's bull. While contradictory claims are hardly unusual coming from you, they're no less contradictory when covered by a cop-out excuse that doesn't really say anything.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:02 pm

Terragent wrote:This is GS you're talking to, Treed. <_<
TheInspiration wrote:I can pull apart Christian ideas and Terragent makes a very valid point above, however it's not one that proves Christianity false.
Eh? You mean my growing up analogy? It wasn't meant to. I mean, it started by assuming Christianity was true.
Reductio ad absurdum, right?

I ask because I'm trying to grasp what the latin phrase means.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

Bog
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Post by Bog » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:52 pm

Terragent wrote:No, that's bull. While contradictory claims are hardly unusual coming from you, they're no less contradictory when covered by a cop-out excuse that doesn't really say anything.
God, being a higher power, has the right to hide stuff from us until the time is right.

What you are saying could also be a "cop-out excuse" for not countering my argument.

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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:25 am

How does being powerful give anybody the right to do anything?

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:34 am

He made us, thus He has the right to do whatever He likes to us. We're His property.

Pretty much all major political leaders hide things from their population, and they always have a reason for it, even if we don't agree with them.

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Terragent
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Post by Terragent » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:41 am

Would you like to present an argument in favour of your position now?

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:10 am

So much for free will.
What can change the nature of a man?

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:48 am

Free will? In any lawful country, we CAN do whatever we want, but that doesn't mean that we will get away with it.

Terr, I just did.

Gameshark

Post by Gameshark » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:50 am

How can we be free if we're someones property? Why don't you go back in time to America and ask all the slaves if they are free.


BLAH!

Epicurus wrote:Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is God both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:52 am

Gameshark wrote:Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is able.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Evil is a point of view. Also, in stopped that evil, something worse may come from it. Satan is out there.
Is God both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Again, Evil is a point of view.
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
He is able. Evil is a point of view.

Gameshark

Post by Gameshark » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:02 am

..... You're kidding... you've got to be kidding me..... WTF....

Evil is a point of view? Are you stoned or something? Please find me the PoV where the Holocaust isn't considered evil... Honestly, if there WAS a God, do you think he woulda just stood back and said "12 million people? Meh...". Then again, if we're talking about the OT God, he was pretty evil so I suppose he woulda let it slide.


And please don't bring up idiots who say the Holocaust was faked... That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:02 am

WWN = The proof of Sod's Law.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:17 am

To Hitler and his mates, was the Holocaust evil?
To Bin Laden, was 9/11 evil?
To non-vegetarians, is eating meat evil?

Evil is, like many things, just an opinion.

If the Nazis hadn't taken power, maybe something even worse could have happend. Communism could have spread throughout Europe from Russia, etc, etc. But, would that be a good or bad thing? We shall never know.

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:23 am

Peanut butter on toast pwns all, but only when the butter is melted.

Gameshark

Post by Gameshark » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:58 am

bog-bog wrote:To Hitler and his mates, was the Holocaust evil?
To Bin Laden, was 9/11 evil?
To non-vegetarians, is eating meat evil?

Evil is, like many things, just an opinion.

If the Nazis hadn't taken power, maybe something even worse could have happend. Communism could have spread throughout Europe from Russia, etc, etc. But, would that be a good or bad thing? We shall never know.
Wow...... just wow... that's all I have to really say. I hope one day you meet a Holocaust survivor and say what they experienced wasn't evil because evil is "just an opinion".

You know, if evil IS "just an opinion".... what was the point of the Genesis story with Adam and Eve getting kicked out of Eden? Correct if I'm wrong, but isn't the tree called the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil"... See, the keyword there is KNOWLEDGE.... now maybe you'd be right if it was called the "Tree of Opinion of Good and Evil".

.....Then again you can just say "Oh, you're suppose to take it symbolically, blah blah blah" and rely on that BS you guys pull all the time when contradictions are found in the Holy Babble.


On a sorta related note, I remember awhile ago someone (I forgot who) was telling me you were going through a hard time, and that's when you found the Church. Now you know, I mean no disrespect when I say this... we've all been through tough times..... But isn't it kinda funny how the Church acts like a pack of hyenas waiting till their prey is the most vulnerable (in this case irrational) to swoop down for the "kill"? They promise you all these great things like: God will be with you, he'll help you overcome this, your life is crumpets now... but you'll be rewarded in the after life if you believe, and all this other hocus pocus.

Now, tbh... if I wasn't "enlightened" and I was going through a tough time, I probably would have gone with it..... but now that I'm able to think for myself... I'm disgusted at this crap religion pulls...

Where was your God when you life was good? If he/she/it loves you (blah blah blah), how come it isn't ALWAYS with you, but only makes itself known when you're suffering?

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:31 am

Wow...... just wow... that's all I have to really say. I hope one day you meet a Holocaust survivor and say what they experienced wasn't evil because evil is "just an opinion".
Of course they would think it's evil. Just like Hitler thought it was good.
You know, if evil IS "just an opinion".... what was the point of the Genesis story with Adam and Eve getting kicked out of Eden? Correct if I'm wrong, but isn't the tree called the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil"... See, the keyword there is KNOWLEDGE.... now maybe you'd be right if it was called the "Tree of Opinion of Good and Evil".
Tree of Knowledge was created by God. Thus, He implemented His views of what good and evil is in the tree. It's what God thinks.

Even God makes mistakes sometimes.
On a sorta related note, I remember awhile ago someone (I forgot who) was telling me you were going through a hard time, and that's when you found the Church. Now you know, I mean no disrespect when I say this... we've all been through tough times..... But isn't it kinda funny how the Church acts like a pack of hyenas waiting till their prey is the most vulnerable (in this case irrational) to swoop down for the "kill"? They promise you all these great things like: God will be with you, he'll help you overcome this, your life is crumpets now... but you'll be rewarded in the after life if you believe, and all this other hocus pocus.
At the moment, a couple of mates and I are helping to run the Alpha Course at church. It's basically a course for people who are interested in the church but aren't Christians. I can't think of a single guy there who is seriously depressed, and yet they keep on coming. What you're saying there is kind of a stereotype.

Yes, I did find the church when I was seriously mucked up, but I genuinely believe it, and I thank the people who got me into it. So to be honest, I don't care if they do that or not because if it wasn't for them I would have done something incredibly stupid, despite it being a huge stereotype.
Where was your God when you life was good? If he/she/it loves you (blah blah blah), how come it isn't ALWAYS with you, but only makes itself known when you're suffering?
Incorrect. He's always there, always calling you, always watching you. Hell is the only place where God does not exist.

And I'm interested: Have you ever even tried reading the Bible? A lot of the contradictions are between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament overwrites what the Old says in the case of contradtictions. (Cos, y'know, Jesus came and set us all straight and righted a few wrongs.)

Powdered Toast Man

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:55 am

Gameshark wrote:How can we be free if we're someones property? Why don't you go back in time to America and ask all the slaves if they are free.


BLAH!

Epicurus wrote:Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is God both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
That's no less baseless than bog's comment @ Terr. So why don't we end this little quarrel and close this topic since Halloween is officially ended.

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:59 am

Just when the topic was getting interesting. :(

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:08 am

GS, stop arguing ontologically. That doesn't work either way.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:32 am

I don't know why you guys even bother arguing the specifics of Christian belief; I mean, no one should have to justify their belief systems the way Bog has to in the face of your versions of atheism, because belief in a higher power that transcends empirical views of the universe is apparently inherently irrational (and I am also 'guilty' of such irrationality). Meaning, no matter what you try and 'prove' by arguing at Bog through the context of Christianity and the Bible, he's going to hold the same beliefs because to him, his belief system makes sense. It may not make 'sense' to you, but stop and think for a minute: do you think Bog is going to continue defending and re-emphasizing something that he doesn't have some sort of justification for, especially when it is so under-represented on these boards? You're trying to get him to come out a subjective world view and thrust him into your equally subjective world view, something that just doesn't work because he isn't you, and you are NOT Bog.

And before I hear 'bog lover blah blah emotional blah blah' from Shane, all I am trying to achieve is a long lasting site wide peace. Yeah, sure, it might be a good time for all of you, but I certainly don't visit HiT or ASDF only to read another inane defense of Christianity coupled with pretentious secular views that lack a fundamental understanding or sympathy for spiritual belief. Go do it in HOIPE, where I can at least know that it's another ignorant, black and white debate and ignore it without being deceived by a topic title like 'Gah, Halloween...'.

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Joey Chicago
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Post by Joey Chicago » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:54 am

I didn't care until he said "I feel sorry for atheists."


I'll stay out of these things gladly until my beliefs are attacked.
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

"And there's a tax on people who smoke tobacco with a bong in public solely to be provocative." - Chris Onstad

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other pages i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans

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Post by TheInspiration » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:00 am

Terragent wrote:This is GS you're talking to, Treed. <_<
TheInspiration wrote:I can pull apart Christian ideas and Terragent makes a very valid point above, however it's not one that proves Christianity false.
Eh? You mean my growing up analogy? It wasn't meant to. I mean, it started by assuming Christianity was true.
Yes that's it - about God not being a good father. No I'm not saying you were trying to prove it untrue.

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Location: Nowhere of any interest.

Post by TheInspiration » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:24 am

.....Then again you can just say "Oh, you're suppose to take it symbolically, blah blah blah" and rely on that BS you guys pull all the time when contradictions are found in the Holy Babble.
Make sure you learn the facts first about Christian interpretations of the Bible - or BABBLE LOLOL. Why do people think a lot of Genesis is metaphorical? Becuase it looks it. You compare the language of that to the New Testament and you'll see that it is intended as a poetic and mystical interpretation of God's creation with a key message about sin, and that the New Testament is meant to be taken literally. I know it's easy to assume those dumb theists are making cop-outs but you might as well think about it in future. Also, how many contradictions do you know anyway? There's far fewer than people think as it's all a matter of interpretation.
On a sorta related note, I remember awhile ago someone (I forgot who) was telling me you were going through a hard time, and that's when you found the Church. Now you know, I mean no disrespect when I say this... we've all been through tough times..... But isn't it kinda funny how the Church acts like a pack of hyenas waiting till their prey is the most vulnerable (in this case irrational) to swoop down for the "kill"? They promise you all these great things like: God will be with you, he'll help you overcome this, your life is crumpets now... but you'll be rewarded in the after life if you believe, and all this other hocus pocus.
What kind of an argument is this? Pack of hyenas waiting for their prey to be vulnerable and swooping down for the "kill"? Do you really think the church is just an evil organisation - okay well some may say that - but one that doesn't believe what it's teaching and just wants to brainwash people for no apparent reason? And tell me what's absurd about all this God will be with you teachings? Or is it just you're too narrow-minded to understand that perspective? It seems fair enough to me. He's a personal God who communicates to his followers as they have a personal relationship with him (BLAH BLAH BLAH etc.)
Now, tbh... if I wasn't "enlightened" and I was going through a tough time, I probably would have gone with it..... but now that I'm able to think for myself... I'm disgusted at this crap religion pulls...
Eh? I don't think it's "pulled" anything "crap". Quite the opposite actually. Look at how it's changed people's lives for the good. Well I can certainly say this for Christianity at least.
Where was your God when you life was good? If he/she/it loves you (blah blah blah), how come it isn't ALWAYS with you, but only makes itself known when you're suffering?
Regardless of your belief about God, before making that argument you should make sure you know that he is always supposed to be with his followers, happy or sad.

Sorry Gameshark. I know you like to mock the opposition but in my opinion sir you're not showing much knowledge of Christianity...
Last edited by TheInspiration on Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:32 am

GEE THAT SURE WAS SOME HALLOWEEN, HUH CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT HOLIDAY WE HAVE NEXT, I WONDER WHAT IT'LL BE
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 am

Kill this topic, please.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:38 am

Shift Breaker wrote:GEE THAT SURE WAS SOME HALLOWEEN, HUH CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT HOLIDAY WE HAVE NEXT, I WONDER WHAT IT'LL BE
Christmas.
"Hey, it's the Kir. Wee." - Linkman 145
"I can't help myself sometimes... :cry:" -Help Topic Guest

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:39 am

Treed, I love you.

But ya, topic OVER.

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Linkman
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Post by Linkman » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:39 am

No, Funday comes first.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Kireato

Post by Kireato » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:43 am

What's funday?
"Hey, it's the Kir. Wee." - Linkman 145
"I can't help myself sometimes... :cry:" -Help Topic Guest

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:44 am

Orgy Week
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

Bog
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Post by Bog » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:07 am

sex

Powdered Toast Man

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:20 am

Kireato wrote:
Shift Breaker wrote:GEE THAT SURE WAS SOME HALLOWEEN, HUH CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT HOLIDAY WE HAVE NEXT, I WONDER WHAT IT'LL BE
Christmas.
In America it's Thanksgiving then Christmas with a bunch of corporate-made holidays thrown in between.

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Shift Breaker
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Post by Shift Breaker » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:22 am

We have Bonfire Night, too.
"The part where you all shut up happens now." ~ thefalman
"I actually like to think of myself as a younger, hipper, more alive Nostradamus." ~ Treed
"Shifty, if I wasn't as manly a man as I am, I'd totally ask you out. And hope you'd wear that topless dude to impress me. In another lifetime, perhaps." ~ Nemmy
"Majora's Mask may by the only game I've played where someone was mooning me the entire time and I didn't care." ~ ThrawnFett

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