Evil Villain...

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Evil Villain...

Post by Chelf » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:43 pm

Seriously. Calder is not very evil. I mean, Von Bolt was more evil than this. Heck. Even Sturm was more evil. And he had a speech impediment. Oh. Fascinating. Yeah right. Seriously. Putting all powers aside, who do you think is the more evil villain?
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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:44 pm

Caulder. An immoral scientist bugs me more than an alien or an old man.
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Post by Chelf » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:48 pm

DTaeKim wrote:Caulder. An immoral scientist bugs me more than an alien or an old man.
Meh. Calder is hilarious. Remember. Proper grammar. It's really important to him. Not to me, of course. I meanz, whys properz grammarz importanz?
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Dragon Fogel
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Post by Dragon Fogel » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:01 pm

Caulder was actually twisted.

Sturm and Von Bolt were pretty generic villains on the whole - very limited motivations and personality. Not that Caulder does *great* on those scores, there are plenty of other villains like him, but there's at least an *attempt* to flesh him out.
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Post by Guest » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:39 pm

Sturm calls people worms and throws rocks at them.

Von Bolt breathes heavily and sits in a chair while wearing a fishbowl. His ultimate weapon was a big blob of jello.

Caulder perpetuates a stagnant war despite the near destruction of the world, runs who knows what twisted experiments on his children that drive them insane if not kill them outright, and is directly responsible for the deaths or attempted deaths of many people through the creeper virus, poisons, a gigantic strategic bomber with complimentary bombs, lasers, his very own private army, and assorted treachery, all in the name of science. And he's ugly.

Caulder 4 evil

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Deimos

Post by Deimos » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:45 pm

Despite this game's story being very... dull, for lack of a better term, I agree with the above poster that Caulder was indeed a pretty 'evil' character.
Chelf wrote:
DTaeKim wrote:Caulder. An immoral scientist bugs me more than an alien or an old man.
Meh. Calder is hilarious. Remember. Proper grammar. It's really important to him. Not to me, of course. I meanz, whys properz grammarz importanz?
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Post by Dragonite » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:08 pm

Sturm was boring beyond words in AW2.
"I randomly want to crush this word,because as stated in my profile,I love war and hate peace.
And dead to opposive underlings.
Dare you defeat me,I will as the evil bad guy of course try to sucide me together with you!hahahaha!
And by the way,I also like meteors and dressing up like darth vader.''

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Post by Seniwac » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:57 am

All AW villains sucked. Caulder and Von Bolt were the most original. Von Bolt was original, but he still sucked because his goal was shortsighted. Caulder sucked because he was a generic "mad scientist" archetype. It's true that AW didn't have a "Mad Scientist" archetype (Lash doesn't count), but IS could've made him a little more original. Sturm was cool, character model wise, but he was still unoriginal.

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Post by Linkman » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 am

Sturm didn't have a personality on AW1 (His hit and miss were "????"), and on AW2 he became generic villain number 38.
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Seniwac

Post by Seniwac » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:16 am

Linkman wrote:Sturm didn't have a personality on AW1 (His hit and miss were "????"), and on AW2 he became generic villain number 38.
He should have stayed that way. No personality is better than a generic personality. And his description was awesome: "A riddle within a shadow, revealing nothing".

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Post by Linkman » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:44 am

Well yeah, I liked it too, but I'd be lying if I said he had an interesting personality. Maybe people prefer a generic villain to a non-existent one.
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Post by Pkdragon » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Caulder surprised me. He's fairly generic, yes, but he's a pretty twisted, evil bastard, of the sort you don't get often. Certainly not in an Advance Wars game. Von Bolt always struck me as being a fairly pathetic villain. Sturm was good in the first game, but not because of his personality.

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Post by GaroNinja » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:17 pm

See, Caulder is kind of generically evil, but at least he doesn't run around shouting, "Look at me do these evil things! I do them because I am evil!". He felt, to me at least, like he was genuinely confused as to why other people thought what he was doing was so wrong, which made him even more of a bastard. Whereas AW2 Sturm just kind of invades people as a hobby, and Von Bolt... I can't really say, I mostly zoned out whenever Von Bolt talked because of... huuuhh... his incredibly... huuuhh... obnoxious way... huuuhh... of speaking... huuuhh...

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Deimos

Post by Deimos » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:07 pm

Like I said before, the story in this game was pretty boring imo, but I do think that unlike the previous games, the bad guys really did have motives other than "HOMG IM EVIL LULZ". The Beast was greed, the Lazurians was revenge, and IDS was, as Caulder puts it, 'curiosity'.

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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:58 am

Don't forget that Von Bolt took some sort of Viagra knockoff near the end and became super-powerful, or something.

I distinctly remember him taking some sort of energy and screaming about how powerful he was. Although, I do not remember EXACTLY what he said. >_>
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Post by Dragonite » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:46 am

I believe it was: ''I feel like I have the strength of ten men,each having the strength of ten men!''
And he gets rid of the hsss... thing for a while,however as an error his power comments are the same with the hsss.. thing.

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Post by HooHa Man » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:42 pm

GaroNinja wrote:See, Caulder is kind of generically evil, but at least he doesn't run around shouting, "Look at me do these evil things! I do them because I am evil!". He felt, to me at least, like he was genuinely confused as to why other people thought what he was doing was so wrong, which made him even more of a bastard. Whereas AW2 Sturm just kind of invades people as a hobby, and Von Bolt... I can't really say, I mostly zoned out whenever Von Bolt talked because of... huuuhh... his incredibly... huuuhh... obnoxious way... huuuhh... of speaking... huuuhh...
Generically evil is probably exactly how I'd put it as well.
Caulder perpetuates a stagnant war despite the near destruction of the world, runs who knows what twisted experiments on his children that drive them insane if not kill them outright, and is directly responsible for the deaths or attempted deaths of many people through the creeper virus, poisons, a gigantic strategic bomber with complimentary bombs, lasers, his very own private army, and assorted treachery, all in the name of science. And he's ugly.
Firstly, the perpetuation of the various conflicts with the various surviving groups of the post-apocalyptic world along with his pointless experiments (the reason for the existence of his clones, and the Creeper to be explained bellow) along with the indirect deaths involved from his actions are really more of the actions of an irresponsible child who seeks to find "higher" answers and complete "scientific" objectives from a world that can no longer provide them in the same scenarios previous to the meteors striking.

That is not evil. That, plainly speaking, is just the idiotic motivation from a mediocre scientist who simply got his way from even more mediocre people in high positions before the world ended.

The Great Owl is a large waste of resources, a testament to the ego of Caudler because of the resources at/once had at his disposal, rather than some genius weapon that would ultimately and permanently alienate mankind from future world conflicts because of its power. The same goes for his firm, IDS, which was ultimately destroyed from Caudler's aforementioned character flaws.

The Creeper Virus is another testament to Caudler's character flaws. This deadly parasitic virus, one that slowly and painfully (or so it is implied) drags out the death of the infected victim all for the sake of "scientific research." If one can engineer a virus (and later fine-tune its performance on its host target so that it can infect mankind in general), there would be no need for such blatant signs of infection and danger associated with being infected with it. (Such as the flowers blooming from one skin.)

A virus that a truly "evil" character would engineer would be one of painless suffering with an even quieter death. One that is curable, but only with something which is plentiful and within the creators possession. (Blackmail or a trade-off of sorts would be used at this time.) By creating something as "flashy" as the Creeper Virus (Green Thumb), it ultimately shows that Caudler as a villain is one that is starving for attention or recognition as one. This can also be proven in the way he acts through out the game; such as his attentive need for his offspring to speak in proper grammar (believing in something mankind in general believes is "proper" for the good of a society, a character trait that makes himself appear to have a less primitive objective in life), and the curiosity he shows when the protagonists do not agree to the justifications as to why he does what he does. (As if he honestly doesn't know why.)

by taking on the identity of a scientist whose immoral and merciless work is strictly "research," Caudler manages to cover-up for his selfish and sadistic nature that thrives off of the attention of others.

To some that may very well be the definition of a villain.

But to me, it is simply the sign of a mediocre wo/man whose luck in gaining the power s/he does posses was simply coincidental, and in no way was earned by toil and effort that would raise them above the general population of humanity.
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Post by ubergeneral » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:01 pm

define "evil"
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Post by Dragonite » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:40 am

Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish

Lol wikipedia

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Post by HooHa Man » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:14 am

dragonite wrote:Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish

Lol wikipedia
Quoted for...truth?
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Post by ubergeneral » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:23 pm

HooHa Man wrote:
dragonite wrote:Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish

Lol wikipedia
Quoted for...truth?
this was my point. Evil is more of a perspective issue than it is something that can be measured. Therefore from say Will's point of veiw Caulder is very evil.

but still evil is open to interperation so there is no correct answer.

/topic
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Post by Guest » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:05 am

what about greyfield he was pretty damn evil

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Post by Dragonite » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 pm

...good point.
I don,t know the script yet,but he seems to be really powerhungry at stuff.
He's much like aw1 olaf and a bit darker.

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Post by Wanted: Preferred Dead » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:49 am

Wish they'd make a villian with a righteous cause but an extremely misguided method of carrying it out. It'd be significantly darker and more interesting....two birds in one stone?

Judging by the darker theme of AW this might be possible....hopefully within the next decade or something >_>
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Post by shoe-sama » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:41 pm

lol AW1

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Post by Powdered Toast Man » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:14 am

Actually, wouldn't it be more fair to say Days of Ruin had three villains? The Beast, Greyfield, and Caulder were all wicked and sinister in their own way.

The Beast was bent only on mass destruction and massacring anyone in his way, regardless of their age, sex, etc. There was simply no reasoning with him. If you lived, you died. Plain and simple.

Greyfield was a leader gone mad with power, concerned only for his own well-being and status. He killed anyone who tried to stand in his way without batting an eye and didn't hesitate to stab anyone in the back. or use an underhanded tactic to win. Pompous or not, he had the numbers and strength to back himself up. Plus, he pretty much antagonized Brenner's Wolves for most of the campaigned.

Caulder...I don't know much about, yet. I haven't completed the campaign but if what everyone says about him is true, then he definitely qualifies as "evil" in every sense of the word.

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Post by Hooded_Miracle » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:46 am

You all forget about The Mayor. >_>

I don't think he got a name. Out of all the characters, though, I hated him the most.

*SPOILERS*

MY CITIZENS ARE IMPORTANT! HELP ME! I'LL HELP YOU! NOT REALLY! HELP US OUT! THANKS! STOP HELPING THEM AND HELP US! HELP ME! THROW THE GIRL OUT OF THE CAMP! SHE'S EVIL, OR SOMETHING! GIMME THE MEDICINE! OSHI- *dies*

*END SPOILERS*

At least the other two were somewhat likeable.
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daveman006

Post by daveman006 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:14 pm

Speaking of the Mayor I think he got what was coming to him. Yeah I hated that guy. Sorry spoiler alert! So yeah to Caulder that is all I have to say.

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by ZOCOM Elite » Tue May 13, 2008 2:35 pm

he is nothing more than a crazy old man high for some reason.

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Chelf » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:08 pm

After a very long hiatus, I'm back. But anyways, I think that Calder is the most humorous of the villains. Other than that, he seems to be Mr. Silent when you destroy one of his units or vise versa.
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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:38 am

If any bad guy in this game was sterotypical, Greyfield is, hes the one who wants to destroy all his enemies and rule the world. You could tell he was going to betray Brenner and co. from the moment they first met. He even had a bad guy tash.

The Mayor was just plain egotistical. He only wanted what was best for him, and used the civillians to his advantage. Brenner gave him help whenever he wanted it, and yet he was never happy. He got what was coming to him in the end.

The Beast didnt strike me as that evil. He was just a bit mad, after getting kicked out of the army. He needs a haircut.

Whereas Caulder was just quite confusing, you never quite knew what he was going to do next. He somehow felt much more evil than Strum and Von Bolt, because Strum was sterotypical, and Von Bolt was just plan greedy.

Caulder attempted to destroy everyone in the world with his floral virus. He didnt do the good old "invade everything" plan, he actually sat down at his desk, and attempted to engineer the deaths of everyone on the planet. If thats not evil beyond belief, i dont know what is.

He also looks like the stuff of nightmares when you piss him off. :)

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by UserShadow7989 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:18 pm

Caulder is my favorite. To be honest, he reminds me of the Joker from The Dark Knight. He's crazy, performs grotesque experiments for fun (though he claims it's for science), he believes morals are worthless, and while he says he doesn't do what he does for power, having power over people is really all he cares about.

I disagree about what people here say about his motive.
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I think the whole thing about he himself being a clone and the related rantings during the final level are his motive; he can't stand the idea of being just a copy and does what he does to prove he isn't inferior to others, that his ability to destroy them shows he is superior when in reality he's a pitiful child, a playground bully in an adult's body and nothing more.
The big problem with Caulder was he wasn't executed well. He popped up, caused trouble, then vanished like some saturday morning cartoon villan. And the big "twists" at the end of the game were either obvious or had no foreshadowing whatsoever, and his motive wasn't explained well an could have been expanded on. Still, he was a step up from "Lol, I wantz Immmoretalitte/2 rul da wurld".

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Dragonite » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:45 pm

In general, Caulder creeps me out with his ''all what you think in imprinted on you, none of your thoughts are truly you own.'' and '''life is only a protein based energy conservation system, it is really nothing special'' talk.It depresses me.

The main villain's of serious games of japanese orgin are always so CONVINCING.

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Sniffit II » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:45 am

I agree with dragonite. Caulder is creepy. I mean, Sturm and Von Bolt were ok villains, but they didn't have to much feeling in them, but Caulder is a villain I can really get into having in the game, he actually gives the game something other than another mission.

Caulder... Is... creepy...
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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:02 pm

I'd bet that Caulder honestly believes his unethical experiments are for the benefit of science. If that's the case, HOLY crumpets CAULDER ALL THE WAY

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Re: Evil Villain...

Post by A Guy » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:08 am

Von Bolt, because he would destroy the entire world just to live forever.

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Narts

Re: Evil Villain...

Post by Narts » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:42 am

Advance Wars Days of Ruin is a tragedy of the wronged genius that is Caulder.

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