Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:24 pm

I have improved another Score
C5 6/435
Delaying the cap by 1 day doesn´t cost any Speed point, but allowed me to keep my Tank alive.

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Dragon Fogel » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:29 pm

450 is theoretically possible there, but you'd have to somehow avoid losing any units at all.
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WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt
AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:38 pm

That doesn´t sound very realistic to lose no Unit in a fast capture, but we might get only 1 lose in 7 days for 439 points.

Edit: C5 7/441
The map has completely changed, it´s not a suicide-speedrush anymore, i killed 4 Enemies, both Recons, 1 Tank and Inf.
Full Tech, lost the Art, but the Enemy built 1 Unit.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:12 am

nice accomplishment there Julian! a shame you fall so short from the 450 though

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:48 pm

And back to minimum time:
C5 5/448

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:49 pm

o_O

This is by ROUTING the enemy?
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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:59 pm

HQ Cap while losing the Art.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:03 pm

now that is insane... O_o

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Dragon Fogel » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:15 pm

Whoa. When I said 450 was theoretically possible, I didn't expect that you'd actually get so close, especially not so soon.
Dragon Fogel,

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Don't call me "Dragon".



WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:26 am

I CAN'T BELIEVE I'VE DONE IT!!!!!!!!! OH-MY-GOD!!!!!! DESTINY OCEAN 7/450!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS FINALLY PERFECTED!

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/763/destinyocean.jpg

it's done by manipulating AI into making Cruiser+Mech, which is achieved by building a Sub+Recon :)

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:46 am

Awesome job^^

So here´s the D2D

Day 1
Build Gunboat

Day 2
Move Gunboat 2E4S
Build Inf

Day 3
Load Gunboat, move 4N3E

Day 4
Move Gunboat 1N6E
Save

Enemy Day 4
AI must build Mech

Day 5
Move Gunboat 6N, unload E
Build Sub and Recon

Day 6
Cap HQ
Move Gunboat 1N1W
Move Sub 3N3E

Day 7
Kill Gunboat
Cap HQ
Last edited by -STL- on Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Dragon Fogel » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:00 am

Two errors:

-On Day 5, you give the wrong directions for the Gunboat; it should move all the way north.
-You forget to mention moving the sub on Day 6, which you need to do so it can attack the Gunboat on the last day.

Nice job on the improvement!
Dragon Fogel,

Marquis Elmdor's Arch-Nemesis



Don't call me "Dragon".



WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:02 am

Fixed, thx for correction

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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Guest » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:21 am

cant get the destiny ocean d2d to work

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:21 am

I just tried it and it works. The Gunboat should be built in the eastern port, for the record.
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----

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ---- » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:02 am

Do you think it might be because of my version (EUR)?

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:32 am

No, it has nothing to do with the version. The game is virtually identical save the localization.
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:48 am

You have terrible luck.
What can change the nature of a man?

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:12 am

It needs lots of luck to get Enemy Mech built.

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:14 am

Is that so? I managed to pull it off on my first attempt.
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:05 pm

DTaeKim wrote:Is that so? I managed to pull it off on my first attempt.

that's some luck XDDD

it's not really really lucky, but on average I think it takes more than 5 restartings the map, with reloading it can take FOREVER

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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:22 am

On missile, if the artillery doesnt get damaged on day 2, can that improve tech?

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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:45 am

Why would it change technique? Technique depends on the ratio of your units to enemy units. The Artillery is only damaged, not destroyed.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ---- » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:02 am

Sorry and I meant day 1

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:43 am

Did you read my post? The fact the Artillery takes damage does not factor in the technique score.

Since Xagor's guide does not allow joining of enemy units and there is no way to build additional units on the map, the Technique score is capped at 143 pts.
What can change the nature of a man?

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:20 am

Translucent Air are u still around?
Do you think it is possible to beat Hourglass in 5 days? I always miss 2-3 attacks but it doesn´t feel impossible for sure. As u made the 6/445 D2D i would like to hear your opinion. It won´t beat the Highscore but it still wonder.
Also on Pentagramm, is it worth a check for the 6 day win or will i just waste my time? Your 439 is already very impressive.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:29 am

^I don't think any of the two is possible, but I haven't tried them seriously...

Translucent Air

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Translucent Air » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:07 pm

It's hard to believe that it's been two around two years since I've looked at either mission, so my memory is hazy. I'll try my best to give you info based upon review of my own posts at the time.

Pentagram is difficult since the the sheer number of attacks makes increasing Power by a single point fairly difficult relative to the change in average damage percentage of each attack; you'll note that there was a fairly wide variety of attacks that still lead to only 441 pts. in the past discussions. Additionally, the faster you attack, the quicker you're likely to wear down your forces - only decreasing the damage percentage per attack and potentially score. Any major improvements to score will likely require novel and rethought strategies in attacking enemy units.

For Hourglass, I remember fighting pretty hard with it due to the luck-based attacks required, as you've already encountered. However, I was fighting for score and not speed. It might be interesting to see if it's possible, though it might be difficult.

Both pretty much boil down to wars of attrition which makes improving their scores harder.

-Translucent Air

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:05 pm

Metro Island 7/393, 150S 117P 126T I was able to win 1 day faster than SwifTy, it might be worth checking if 450 is possible... but it didn't seem so

7/443!!!! >____< 150S 150P 143T if only AI spammed 3 units on last day instead of just 2! >_< I'll try again

7/448 ARGH DAMN YOU TECHNIQUE

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:48 pm

NEW HIGH SCORE T4 Metro Island 7/450 :) makingi 1 unit less, Tech was perfected, and with better optimization the other unit wasn't needed for Power

as always I've improved after getting a sudden urge of improving these ugly slow wins, since DoR has a loooooot of maps where the theoretical win is at least 1 day faster than the HS (5 is theoretically possible for Metro!)

edit: well, this is funny, after getting the 7/450 I wanted to try a 6 days win, and it's actually very easy to start capping with full HP on D5 XD I'd never thought, doesn't seem possible to win though

NEWER NEW HIGH SCORE T4 Metro Island 6/450 I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE THIS. LOL. LOL. THIS IS SUCH A RIDICULOUS SCORE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING, AI? LOL. now I feel like all the hours I've put into the 7/450 were wasted XD

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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:47 am

...what? You managed six days? Holy cow.
What can change the nature of a man?

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-STL-

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby -STL- » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:16 am

Lol it´s very easy when you know it´s possible
Here´s the D2D

Metro Island 6/450

Day 1
Build APC S, Bike SE, Inf NW

Day 2
Load Inf in APC, 4E
Bike 3E
Build AA SE

Day 3
Load CO into AA, 4E
APC 1N3E
Bike 2N2E

Day 4
AA 1N3E
APC 1S4E, drop E

Day 5
Start to cap HQ
Move APC, Bike and AA out of Enemy attack range

Day 6
Finish capturing

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:34 am

DTaeKim wrote:...what? You managed six days? Holy cow.

I've noticed that when AI is manipulated into making MD Tank, it tends to not waste any money and make very few units, from which came the idea, 7 days is FAR harder (I've done it with AI Tank, not MD)

edit: nice strategy Julian, when I tried to have the Mech move before the Art the Art always moved first, in my strategy Mech is built north and I manipulate it into moving 2N (away of HQ range)

Craz

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Craz » Fri May 07, 2010 10:46 am

After s-ranking the campaign, I have learned a lot about how this game plays. The only time I had to submit to my stupidity was during the final mission, which I attained a b-rank (miserable) and had to consult a guide to s-rank since I was lazy. Then I went off to square with the CPU on more even maps and ended up on Tatter River. Yes, the same old crumpets from ages back which always ended in horrible slaughter. I managed to s-rank the thing (very barely, 312 pts in 59[!] days) on first try by abusing Waylon's COP and parking miscellaneous air units around the HQs and capturing them...with much bloodshed. By golly gee johnson, since I'm not familiar with how the AI or the scores roll, it was really ugly.

Then I read about STL clearing it in 11 days with 450 pts and was like :ph43r:

Then I was like :(

Either I suck or someone here has spent a lot of work abusing the AI and the RNG. Though I must say, perhaps it's harder to beat the thing sans them tricks and with a mighty (damn you 50 unit limit) flying armada consisting of half the world's remaining steel (the other half being spent on AAs). Arguably, by the time I captured each HQ, I could have routed them but it wouldn't have given me his/her properties. I beat Gage (yellow), Lin (black) and Tasha (blue) in that order. Here lies my "strategy":

- Capture things just south of red HQ
- While standing off against yellow's factory, send convoy to capture center
- Flood yellow factory with artillery, reinforce center
- Seize the far eastern blue factory (thus saving black, which I will soon regret)
- Amass bombers
- ???
- COP bomber rush + yellow HQ capture
- Lose control of the eastern factory as my forces get crushed between blue and black (worth a shot I suppose...)
- Reinforce center with my fleet, preparing to battle black forces (now dominant)
- 'Creep' a wall of firepower till close enough to HQ (missiles actually proved useful)
- Amass bombers and dusters
- ???
- COP bomber-duster rush + black HQ capture
- Amass fighters and hit 50 unit limit
- ???
- COP bomber-fighter rush + blue rout

Probably a fail tactic in the eyes of vets, in the extremity to the point of breaking one's nose with one's palm. Still, S-RANK GET!

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Fri May 07, 2010 11:24 am

there has been a partial strategy written by me (Blue capture) and continued by STL (Yellow capture), after that taking Black is a little harder but nothing too impossible

basically you flood Blue with T-Copters and Infantrys, I don't remember what happens to Yellow but it shouldn't be much different, while manipulating AI's build order and movements, you can get a early free cap

your strategy is something that I think everybody used until I found the early Blue cap =P

Craz

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Craz » Fri May 07, 2010 12:26 pm

ALAKTORN wrote:there has been a partial strategy written by me (Blue capture) and continued by STL (Yellow capture), after that taking Black is a little harder but nothing too impossible

basically you flood Blue with T-Copters and Infantrys, I don't remember what happens to Yellow but it shouldn't be much different, while manipulating AI's build order and movements, you can get a early free cap

your strategy is something that I think everybody used until I found the early Blue cap =P


You know, after the first capture, I caught on to how I was seriously lacking t-copters. By that time though, things had already gone crazy (with Lin holding 30-ish properties, me with 40 and Tasha out in Poland like young Fortinbras). I would've just found it hard to manipulate the AI enough (yeah, savestates and menu>options) to make sure those infs get the capture. I'm just curious as to why you would flood blue first (although without my earlier intervention, blue would've dominated center, but not until they've set up AAs and whatnot). I'm playing a slightly balanced version of AWDoR too (aka Waylon gets a less obscene buff on COP while getting bikes'n'stuff and Tasha is no less scary than a wall of hadouken (backed by shoryuken and low MK) to a novice street fighter), basically GipFace's suggestions compiled with a few others. This technically made Waylon slightly less useful (if only you could order bikers to haul ass through 3-inch deep streams of sewage) and the others slightly more threatening.

One thing I have learned in all this time is that never EVER declare war knowing a bridge-less river is between you and the opponent.

All in all a painful map compared to others, which I would like to address as well ('cheap' tactics aside which require tool assisted goodies).

Unlike the previous AW, this one has removed the dominance of infantry and replaced it with ARTILLERY and lots of it. Even without input from forums, I realized I could actually easily beat the AI with a fleet of artillery. Thus I did, and rightfully won. It was hilarious, as factories on that map were few, I basically solely produced artys sans the meat-shields. Heck, the artys WERE the meat-shields. Only CO tanks could OHKO them on plains and with a few properties captured in contested grounds, it was like some kinda super-death organism. Heck, the flung anti-tanks and war tanks, which were easily dealt with (I had like 15 artillery pieces when that happened). The AI was playing a good game in that sense, changing up the units and keeping the CO nearby, but the sheer power of my artillery killed everything to the point I wondered why I even needed a mech wall. I guess had it not been close to cities I would've fallen...

...still:

Capture like crazy (the AI will never be as aggressive with infantry/bikes/mechs)
Amass artillery (merge and repair, back up with an AA and a rig on longer battles)
???
Win!

I wonder if AWDoR isn't as crumpets as the campaign would have you believe. LOL CRUMPETS112121

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DTaeKim
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby DTaeKim » Sat May 08, 2010 12:22 am

I'm assuming this is a strategy against the AI, because it won't work against a normal player.
What can change the nature of a man?

Craz

Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby Craz » Sat May 08, 2010 5:40 am

DTaeKim wrote:I'm assuming this is a strategy against the AI, because it won't work against a normal player.


If I weren't referring to an AI, then I would be saying quite an amount about the standard human intellect. It was just for jokes when I was too lazy to formulate a half-decent plan. It was 2v2, wanted to see how an AI would work with a human on a symmetrical-ish map. Turns out, the AI did a worse job than either of my opponents as it didn't bother capturing stuff. This also means that programming the AI to spam artillery would've made it more viable than otherwise. Wow.

Also, just to make it clear, I never have and probably will say I'm a good AW player. Decent, yes, good, no. Beating the campaigns of the games could be considered 'cake walk' versus competitive play (although some maps were so overtly imbalanced and required cheap tactics and 'exploits'), provided there was competition in said play.

Prime Bbcode Spoiler Show Prime Bbcode Spoiler: In a sense, it has been a philosophical trip...
...where I, the meek human of standard intellect journeyed into the depths and horrors of Advance Wars. At first, I considered the game to be similar to an RTS (Red Alert 2 was my first) in that it was balanced and fit for heavy PvP (a mirror match on 'tournament' maps would be considered almost perfectly balanced, connection/processor issues aside). I then, in vain, attempted to apply this concept to Advance Wars. There is no way to 'balance' a TBS to the extent of an RTS (in itself faction v. faction wouldn't be). Probably that is why the RTS series flourished in strategy and the TBS only saw RPG-esque releases mainly. Then I questioned myself on why I continued to play Advance Wars every now and then finding some level of enthusiasm and pleasure in doing so. I managed to round it off to several factors, being for the sake of blowing waffles up, the relaxed pace of combat and a little in light theorytarding. Most of my decisions became reflex rather than adaptation at later stages, a fatal flaw if applied to chess where considerably less margin for error is presented. Light theorytarding, I would classify, is considering tactics for missions (campaign and war room) and rather specific instances in combat rather than tackling meta-game as a whole and considering how funds balance out in the field of unit efficiency and potential of use. I found this all FASCINATING. Then I decided to biologically engineer a plant-based virus but found that it's optimal conditions of operations were low temperatures and surprisingly, limited sunlight. These terms of use were truly limiting along with pressures from governments and alike. Funding wasn't an issue, however, having a secure source from the war locked nation's thirst for new weaponry. This little experiment aside, I have veritably determined a method of cloning DNA without damaging the telomeres and theoretical elongate them. Sadly, subjects were severely lacking. Secrecy must be assured to further science under such irrational laws. Finding nobody truly trustworthy asides from myself I took to producing clones with my own DNA. Many failures yielded one success and my research bore fruit. I called him Alpha-C. Despite being unable to survive outside of a stasis tank, the primary organs were operational to extents and the cranial activity was present. It lived to an age of 20 years due to one of my experiments. I guess I overestimated it, with some personal bias and must be more careful in future studies. Beta-C showed greater promise in that it was able to survive outside of stasis but never achieved consciousness. All further experiments I refer to as Betas as none of them were mentally functional. Frustration began to set in and hampered my research significantly. My clients were beginning to file complaints addressing the speed of weapons manufacture and lack of new technology. One day I will successfully create a clone of myself and remove such emotions from the genetic code along with other human characteristics I do not favor. My latest Beta is showing great promise however. By altering hormone levels manually I have forced it into a state of semi-consciousness. Perhaps it even spoke. In all likelihood my cloning process must have somehow hampered the production of such hormones in the cerebral glands. Still a long way to go and so little time. At some point I will begin to run low on the stem cells and embryos required to produce more experiments. It seems my research is coming to an end. Ironic it would be such a beautiful night; I dare wonder what those minute fires hide from humanity after all.

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ALAKTORN
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Re: Single-Player Maps High Scores and Strategy

Postby ALAKTORN » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:28 am

can I ask someone to compile a list of theoretical fastest wins and current high score+fastest without high score? (the latter can be found on Cyberscore.me.uk)

I think almost all the HQ rush maps are now either fastest or 1 day slower than optimal (and those aren't few either) found it funny when I thought about Metro Island going to 6 days while 5 is possible and thinking "1 day slower than optimal means perfect in this game"

edit: also, when is the first post going to be updated? =P


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