My three concept CO's

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artea

My three concept CO's

Postby artea » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:38 pm

Leone:

A master tactician in the employment of armored units. Beleives armor units are for holding flanks and breakthroughs.
"Fortune favors the bold"


Co Zone:
Units gain massive Attack and Defence bonuses. The catch is that as more units get into the CO Zone the bonus dimishes in strength (and potentially reaching the point where you get no bonus). The idea here is that you will use less units more efficiently to further benefit from her zone. Thus allowing you to reinforce a different flank.

COP: Forced Promotion
All tread units inside the the co zone will gain veterancy.

Klaire
Trained in the use of paratroopers, beleives in head strong attacks into enemies.
"Bad ass enough to jump out of planes and bring the fight to the enemy"

CoZone:
Infantry get capture bonues (x1.5), att/deff
COP: Sky High/ or D-1
Spawn infantry in the co zone (I was thinking 4 infantry or 2 infantry and 2 mechs), but they are all veteran. The justification behind this is that it isn't as godly as sensei because sensei could spam his cop out. In DOR it is harder to charge the bar to the point of spamming. The veterancy is also to make sure you to get gyped if you do spawn the infantry, for the vet status would make them more enduring + the co zone would give the defence and attack boost making it hard to pry them off of cities.

Maude
Very strong admiral that specialises in micromanagement.
"carry on regardless"

Co Zone:
Units don't use ammunition or fuel [(applies to all units in zone (land,sea,air) so that if you random her on a map that is land you don't get shafted).]

COP: Industrial authority:
The unit that the co occupies is 10% cheaper to produce.

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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Postby Delta_Angelfire » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:25 pm

Fun... didn't I see a couple of these on The-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named?

anywho, with Leone, I think you need solid numbers just so it's easier to get an actual grasp of what he can do (and If he's just tabi on steroids :-/). I have a CO with a similar ability -

Effect: Attack +5***** Defense+5*****
Your units get -x% attack and defense for each other unit of that type you control. x = 70-(2(sqrt(map size in squares))) i.e. 50 on 10x10, 30 on 20x20, 10 on 30x30

but mine affects the whole board, so it needed an equation to make sure you didn't screw yourself over on large maps. Dunno, thought it might be useful.

Klaire - the spawned infantry/mechs don't get any extra bonuses right? Seems allright. I still worry that any power that spawns capturing units has massive ability to be abused though (capture phase, HQ Sneak Cap, etc.)

Maude - seems a little underpowered... depends on how big her CO Zone is. 3 seems almost too powerful while 2 still seems a little weak, although definitely good for navies for their lack of a good refueling unit. COP is pretty underwhelming (10% off one unit type for only one day?) you'd need to save up alot and have a lot of bases for it to be particularly useful, and even then you'd need to produce 5 units just to make up for the cost of your CO.
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artea

Postby artea » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:16 pm

Just so you know...

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All chicks XP.

Leone:
Caulder gives 5 stars of boost to attack and defence to all units in the zone, which is decently strong. I was figuring maybe she can give 4 stars of attack and defence and for every two units in the zone it decreases it a full star. I am not sure how effective that would be so I am waiting for the CW dudes to finish up the cwdor more so I can program it and see how it holds up. From there I would fine tune it. As for the zone I am thinking 2/4 but if it is to big it could potential screw her over on small maps. What do you think of the cop though?

Klaire:
The spawned infantry would benefit from the co zone in retrospect because it doesn't dissapear after you use the cop, which could indeed make it powerfull. I will have to see how to balance that out, and an hq sneak cap could indeed be abused.

Maude:
I am debating giving her a co zone that doesn't double in size, maybe make it 2 and then 3 instead of 2/4 or 3/6. The cop is a bit weak and I was trying to figure out with a friend on how to spruce it up. Something that works well with land units but better with navy is what I am aiming for. Some people sugested either discount prices or somehow get more money to fund a better navy but I am still not sure. If you got a better cop I would love to here it.

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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Postby Delta_Angelfire » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:09 pm

Actually, CO Zones increase by 1 for each level, so it'd be 3/5 (like penny and brenner, also why tabi is a 0/2 instead of always 0). Or were you saying doubling in size was part of the ability?

Leone:
A CO Power that gives a permanent bonus... Well that covers Tanks an AAs, both of which are used fairly often, flares too even (doesn't it?). You could try something weird, like giving her a "reverse" CO zone where it shrinks instead of expands as part of the effect. I think the drawback is a nice balancing element. Also, are we talking about the original CO zone of 2 or the maxed CO zone of 4? Either way it's not too bad, limited but permanent 20/20 for a few units... I'd say it sounds pretty balanced, maybe a little on the weak side but not by much.

Klaire:
I'm just picturing the HQcap, and you've even already got 4 meatshields to protect the capping unit (the CO unit and the three others that spawned). Id say give your infantry the ability to ride on Bombers like they can with Tcopters or something. Or let them launch from copters like the seaplanes launch from a carrier, just seems more paratrooper like. Then again, they both kinda break the rules, so not to much usefulness from me here I suppose :-/

Maude:
Hmm... I wonder, do ships/planes still lose fuel for their daily fuel losses (like, -8 for being submerged in flight) under your CO power? What if you made her like a super Rig, resupplying everyone in her COZone at the start of the day (only a slight difference from what you have already). Seems like she could have a nearly invincible wall of submerged subs then.

As for COP... not sure myself. I mean the only real weakness of ships is their inability to go on land and their cost. The first would be kind of ridiculous to change, and the second we already know is difficult to implement fairly (don't wanna turn into Hachi you know). You could always go with something simple like +3 movement and +1 indirect attack range for ships only. Heck, it (or at least something similar) works for Isabella.
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artea

Postby artea » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:05 am

Sorry for some reason I had it in my mind that the co zones double with the half and full meter. Haven't played the game since it came out XP (beat it to fast).

Leone: Zone 2:3:4 (sound reasonable?)
Covers tanks, APC's (sure they can't attack but hey good defence for an apc works too.), flares (they can rape anti-airs for the record >.<), and thats is all. As for the reverse, the zone shrinking, it would be a nice since it balances out what would become veteran in the COP. Still a bit iffy, I wish I could program the her into the game and test it but I will have to wait a tad longer.

Maude: 1:2:3 (three is too powerfull two is too small, and there is no 2.5 squares either)
The turn the power is activated they would use up fuel since she micromanages she can only focus on one thing at a time XD.
As for the COP, those two things were brought up, money and the fact that ports aren't in all maps. Thats why the industrial authority is there, that way you don't get shafted on land maps. I don't want the cop to be repetive of other CO's hence the COP but maybe I should raise the discount?

Klaire: 1:2:3
Would it be fair to make them spawn DIRECTLY next to the co? Or should they be a bit damaged so that they only can cap 10 points worth of city?

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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Postby Delta_Angelfire » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:05 pm

Hmm... what if Maude just forgoes all the building stuff and just makes a single clone of whatever unit she's in?

Also, for Klaire, I'd say youd have to at least give the enemy 2 days to get an attack in before calling it just plain unfair. that and the fact that they'd still be affected by her capture bonus would make it too easy for them to capture through combining.

Depending on exactly how many def *s you give them (I'm going to assume atk and def 3***). So +30% (+10 more from co zone) let's your same type units get attacked by an enemy first and they'll still win in the end.

So maybe (a) tone her D2D down to a 1.3 capture rate and have all the units spawn with 5 health (would do 6 + 13 + 13 for a 3 day cap with combining) or (b) spawn them at full health but unable to move that day, or (c) sacrifice the CO unit to spawn them all at full help with the ability to move. BTW, also just noticed her power only says infantry. if the cap bonus doesn't apply to mechs(?), I'd say another option (d) could be to spawn 3 or 4 mechs @ 9hp

Actually, toning her down to 1.3 would probably be fine in general, since (with the def boost) means your opponent cant stop your capturing infantry with a single mech or bike, and you could even finish capping when harassed by a non-boosted recon. I also think a zone of 2:3:4 wouldn't be too over powering either.
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artea

Postby artea » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:45 am

Man I keep getting torn into at other forums for these ideas XD, I am glad someone here is at least making an effort to help instead of sayin "it sucks, lrn2ply" among other things XD.

Maybe I should just stick to spriting and let other people worry about cos?

I'm starting to beleive that klaire is broken and nothing can change that any time soon until I am able to test her out in a DoR enviroment.

As for Maude, making a clone is kind of lame, so is discount. I have no clues as to what kind of cop she could have TT_TT.

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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Postby Delta_Angelfire » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:52 pm

Ha! Sounds like you ran into shoe. He says that all the time, I've learned just ignoring him(her? it?) is best.

I came up with another idea too - spawn infantry and mechs outside your CO zone to random spots. Also, scaling how many you get based on map size (1 per 80 squares or so? and every other unit spawns as a mech) all at 9hp each. that way even if you are lucky enough to end up near the enemy HQ, your CO probably won't be nearby, or if it is, you likely won't end up near it in the first place.

And hey, a free unit on the front lines of battle is nothing to sneeze at really :-p
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thefuzzychickensz
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Postby thefuzzychickensz » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:14 pm

Leone's powers don't seem anyhow useful imo. The concept seems pretty kickin though.

For Klaire, her COP should be simply an infantry unit buff or discounts for a turn?

Maude, seems perfect to me.
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artea

Postby artea » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:32 am

Delta_Angelfire wrote:Ha! Sounds like you ran into shoe. He says that all the time, I've learned just ignoring him(her? it?) is best.

I came up with another idea too - spawn infantry and mechs outside your CO zone to random spots. Also, scaling how many you get based on map size (1 per 80 squares or so? and every other unit spawns as a mech) all at 9hp each. that way even if you are lucky enough to end up near the enemy HQ, your CO probably won't be nearby, or if it is, you likely won't end up near it in the first place.

And hey, a free unit on the front lines of battle is nothing to sneeze at really :-p


I would like to ignore Shoe, but he is one of the better players out there so when he says something that is concerning it is best to stop and think about it. Most people complain Leone is too situantional, and the plan was to have a minor disadvantage, like a handicap co for a good player playing a bad player for example.

As for the Paratrooper idea, still no idea how to implement it so that isn't broken. The example that keeps coming up on its brokeness is on maps where the hq is off on an island, they say why not spam the units out from a duster using the cop, because even one would be to much to handle. So I still need to think of a different stat set I think.

As for maude, I like her the way she is ^_^.

...Edit:...
Is that the un squadran area 88 logo >.>. That was a good snes game

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thefuzzychickensz
Contact:

Postby thefuzzychickensz » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:18 pm

Well a handicap for good players woulda been...no CO man. XD
Think it's near impossible to think of a nonbroken paratrooper idea imo. ><

-Yeah, A88/UN Squadron is one heck of an awesome game, pretty darn good(referring to 2004 remake) anime too. XD
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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Postby Delta_Angelfire » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:15 pm

If only there were an infantry unit that couldn't capture you'd be set :-p
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artea

Re: My three concept CO's

Postby artea » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:23 pm

My god, it has been a long time since I was last here. I have been up to my neck in schoolwork the past month, and now that I have overcome the first few hundred hurtles thrown at me I can concentrate on these concepts I refuse to let die. I am going to bed in a bit but plan on wiritng up all the revisions and concepts I had for the past few weeks, but before I do erect a giant wall of text tommorrow... some good news:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6562/leonese5rs2.th.png
Leone has been digitally redesigned by an artist called Narts (props to him, he rocks).

Edit: "can't find dimensions of this image" my ass >:C


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