CCO's for rating!

The forum for CCOs in our new dark wargame.
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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

CCO's for rating!

Post by Delta_Angelfire » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:13 pm

Well, finally narrowed down my Persona Closet (just a bit) to a few COs that I think I'll submit for rating. Still... so many ideas, but I suppose it's best to work with bite-sized pieces.

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Louis Tekwright
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Biography: A somewhat eccentric individual, Louis encourages others to call him by his self-appointed nickname - "Optimizer". As a mechanic of unmatched skill, technique, and efficiency, he was hired by the NRA to train their best and brightest to be just like him. While the training did not go well and the project was quickly abandoned, the NRA continues to fund his research - if only to keep him out of the hands of other factions.

Quote: "I can take care of this myself!"

CO Zone: 0, All Units

CO Effect: Attack +2, Defense +2. As an action, you may transform your CO Unit into any other unit (other than Infantry or Mech) for half of what that unit would cost to produce. Your CO Unit heals 1HP per day at no cost.

CO Power: No CO Power

Victory Quotes:
"Told you I could handle it!"
"WHAT?? A 0.2% loss in efficiency? UNACCEPTABLE!"
"Would it have been faster if I had used this module instead...?"

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Dorcas
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Biography: After the death of Caulder, there was nothing left restraining Tabitha from performing some of her own... experiments. While attempting to clone herself, she created the being she later named "Dorcas". While Tabitha prefers to crush all those who dare oppose her face-to-face, Dorcas is quietly content to rain fiery death on them from afar. With such complimentary styles, Tabitha immediately adopted her as a "true" sister, and together they are the dominating force leading the IDS.

Quote: "The weak shall be culled soon enough."

CO Zone: 0, Indirect-Fire Units

CO Effect: Range +1

CO Power: Meteor Rain
Your CO Unit may attack any number of times this turn, but may not move.

Victory Quotes:
"I guess they really were stupid and weak."
"Were you impressed, sister?"
"Crushed like insects... How disappointing...'

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Amanda Charm
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Biography: A mysterious woman who's beauty masks her ruthless cunning on the battlefield. This rogue Officer changes factions at whim, pursuing some goal known only to herself. It is often said she can turn the weak of heart to her side with just a glance.

Quote: "Come on boys... why not fight for me instead?"

CO Zone: 2, all enemy units

CO Effect: enemy units in the CO Zone do not counter attack

CO Power: Siren Song
Take control of an enemy unit of your choice (except for one in an enemy CO Zone). That unit loses half its current HP.

Victory Quotes:
"I know I could put your talents to better use."
"Come now, why can't we be friends?"
"Looks like your men like me better after all!"
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DTaeKim
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by DTaeKim » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:55 am

Louis is underpowered. His CO effect offers no real advantage aside from versatility, and his CO unit is no stronger than Lin, who has an additional range AND CO power on top of it.

Dorcas will become a CO who does not use his COP at all. The CO effect is simply too good to ignore because it turns all units within the CO zone of 2 (when charged) into Grit's units. We know how devastating Grit was in the previous games, and a charged Dorcas will be as fearsome.

Amanda is the same as Dorcas. No counterattacks is a powerful ability in the previous games, and when it encompasses all enemy units within the CO zone, it simply is a better option than using her COP. The CO effect is too strong at the moment, especially with the CO zone. With a CO zone of 1, it cannot be used at all, which means we have a conundrum.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Delta_Angelfire
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by Delta_Angelfire » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:05 am

Personally, I'm a fan of versatility, and it just seems like a neat effect (Louis' that is). I also want to be careful because I think that higher versatility should be offset by lower power, and I don't want to overpower him. Maybe a COPower is in order, or perhaps I could increase his self-healing ability?

As for Dorcas, yeah, I guess I kind of cheated by making a CO with a tabitha power level in mind, but I just had to have a little fun :mrgreen: .

Also, there was a no counter-attacking CO in a previous game? Well, what if I changed it to something like attack -20% instead?
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DTaeKim
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by DTaeKim » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:39 am

There's a reason people use Tanks as the preferred CO unit; they're versatile. Since the CO unit is meant to be a stable one, the self-healing is more potent than changing the type of unit. In addition, your CO stats aren't strong enough for a CO zone of 0, especially without a COP.

No CO specifically has used it, but it has been done with CCOs before. No counterattacks is powerful enough on its own as a COP; giving it as a CO effect is far too much. Changing it to -20% offense will do no good; you might as well give Amanda's units +20% offense.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Delta_Angelfire
Location: Oblivion

Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by Delta_Angelfire » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:32 pm

DTaeKim wrote:There's a reason people use Tanks as the preferred CO unit; they're versatile. Since the CO unit is meant to be a stable one, the self-healing is more potent than changing the type of unit. In addition, your CO stats aren't strong enough for a CO zone of 0, especially without a COP.

No CO specifically has used it, but it has been done with CCOs before. No counterattacks is powerful enough on its own as a COP; giving it as a CO effect is far too much. Changing it to -20% offense will do no good; you might as well give Amanda's units +20% offense.
Hmm... Allright, what If I altered Louis as such:
CO Zone: 1, All Units
CO Effect: Attack +2, Defense +2, Your CO Unit gains the "Transform" Command. Transform allows you to change any adjacent friendly unit into any other unit for double the difference in production cost.
CO Power: No CO Power

This still allows you to change battle tactics on the fly to some limited degree while granting at least a minor boost for units protecting your CO. now to just make it so it isn't broken on maps without airports or seaports, since theoretically, you can make an entire air force or naval fleet as opposed to just one unit when he only altered himself.

As for Amanda, I really like the idea of a "curse" CO Zone, penalizing your opponent rather than directly boosting your own. Since having no counter attacks is overpowered, how about half strength counter attacks?
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DTaeKim
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by DTaeKim » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:19 pm

Not many people are willing to spend more funds just to change a unit. Spending 14000G just to turn a unit into a Tank isn't going to cut it.
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Delta_Angelfire
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by Delta_Angelfire » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:47 pm

But what about spending nothing to turn a War tank into a Seaplane on Bean Island? or 20000 to turn said seaplane into a Battleship? That's got to be worth something.
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DTaeKim
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by DTaeKim » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:41 am

No one puts a CO in a War Tank, unless you want to spend 24000G on a unit that moves slow and takes a while to deploy on most maps. Likewise, if no one wants to build a War Tank, then a Seaplane won't be up there either, and a Seaplane suffers from low ammo and fuel. Then you change into a B-ship, where it sits far away from the action and the other person's CO unit is probably wrecking havoc on yours.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Delta_Angelfire
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Re: CCO's for rating!

Post by Delta_Angelfire » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:17 am

Phooey. I was sure there was some way to make versatility useful. Too bad there's no way to actually test and tweak it :-(

On another note, I was looking back at my first prototype of Dorcas. Would it put her into "Broken-but-not-quite-as-broken-as-Grit" level if only the CO Unit had Range +1? (Also assuming that her CO Power is limited by her unit's ammunition supply?)

Oh and I never did get a verdict on Amanda. Is half-strength retaliation for a CO Zone still too powerful?
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