Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

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Bonesy
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Bonesy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:08 am


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scraggypunk
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by scraggypunk » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:28 am

those sure are the wrong words all right
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:08 am

Image <<<< dumb as fudge

Image <<< literally just an animal with a tumor
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:20 am

lets go deeper linkman

Image

DEEPER

Image


Image
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:48 am

How can you even think of comparing those Pokemon to freaking flying swords? They're awesome and borderline classics. (That being said, I never completed a gen II game with Meganium, which may say something.)

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Pkdragon
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:56 am

"Classic" has no place in a conversation about whether newer pokemon stand up to older pokemon.

Of course the newer ones aren't classic. But that's because other pokemon came first, not because of their own designs.

And I happen to like the flying swords. No worse than flying magnets.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:58 am

classic (n) judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

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Linkman
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:11 am

Pkdragon wrote:"Classic" has no place in a conversation about whether newer pokemon stand up to older pokemon.

Of course the newer ones aren't classic. But that's because other pokemon came first, not because of their own designs.

And I happen to like the flying swords. No worse than flying magnets.
Yes that is the point.

Here's another gem from Gen II:

Image

How this thing even moves is beyond me! It's coral--with legs! (It's also crumpets competitively AND in-game!)
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:18 am

But it's cute

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:20 am

Don't make me pull out the Remoraid bogman
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by hawkesnightmare » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:21 am

I never said there were no dumb pokemon. I just said that in my opinion, Gen II had the least.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:25 am

Linkman wrote:Don't make me pull out the Remoraid bogman
Do it, Linkman145

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Linkman » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:27 am

Image

CASE DISMISSED.

(Hawke: yeah, I think that's because it added the least pokes.)
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:40 am

Solid design. I like the green tone it's got going on. Reminds me of lush meadows.

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Pkdragon
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:56 am

daisy wrote:classic (n) judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

In that case, they are absolutely not classic pokemon and you were using the word wrong. :P

Solid design. I like the green tone it's got going on. Reminds me of lush meadows.
If that is the level of design required to be solid, then recent pokemon have definitely had solid design.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by scraggypunk » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:26 pm

it's a fish gun that evolves into fish mortar

it's cool as crumpets
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by ThunderWalker » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:11 pm

Indeed, I think Remoraid and Octillery are a bad example indeed of bad design in Generation II.

What about Unown?!
THOSE look silly.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Dragonite » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:45 pm

It's a flying sword,which ends up being a flying sword which can wield a shield to change it's stats around from glass cannon to tank at will. Magnemite is a flying metal orb with a giant cartoony eye, with magnets and screws attached for reasons, and it's evolution literally that times 3 without no real reason why it would multiply. I'm a huge magneton fan, but yeah, it's weird. Duplicate evolutions became rare later on for good reasons. On the other hand, a sentient/haunted weapon is a well-known cliche that predates pokemon and which other games and media also use.

The truth of the matter is that the designing team has always produce a mix between sleek(Dragonair) ,simplistic or mechanical(Diglett and voltorb), and finally intentionally bizarre mons on purpose. A lot of gen I mons are designed to look completely whack when you see them(Tangela,Jynx,Koffing, Weepingbell), and are ugly on purpose. It always takes a while to get used to them, but as kids this happened automatically to us. It isn't bad design if it's been the point to begin with. It's also Japan, and was not designed for export at first

I was horrified when I saw some gen IV designs for the first time(like Carnivine), and I also had trouble with the Gen V list at first. But as I became a bit older... As a critical adult one needs to realize Pokemon have different aesthetic goals from the get go, and manually need to either resign yourself to get used to it as you did with the old one/have a good laugh at the weirdness. Usually seeing them animated in the anime helps.

I can't ask anyone to like the new material, but maybe it won't sting as bad if one understands the true pattern going on here.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:56 pm

Pkdragon wrote:
daisy wrote:classic (n) judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

In that case, they are absolutely not classic pokemon and you were using the word wrong. :P

Solid design. I like the green tone it's got going on. Reminds me of lush meadows.
If that is the level of design required to be solid, then recent pokemon have definitely had solid design.
i know you are but what am i

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Pkdragon
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:22 am

good to see you've stopped trying

my point isn't that gen ii is awful, it's that it's no better than the later gens, and no worse (ok i personally think it's a little BORING but that's me). The same logic you are applying to defend pokemon from gen i and ii can absolutely be used to defend pokemon from the later gens as well. everything you've said has come down to "well i like it", and that isn't a compelling argument. of course you like it, you're horribly biased for the early gens and horribly biased against the later gens, that's obvious. we're just trying to argue that every gen is more or less equal at least on the pokedesign front, if you can get past that bias.

ultimately, i don't want to convey any point more than:
deoxy wrote:all gens have cool pokes, all gens have trash pokes
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:28 am

I stopped trying and switched into troll mode several posts ago. You're still wrong though. 1 > 2 >>> 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 >>>> 5/6/7

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:54 am

Your points are entirely subjective, though, Daisy. You are not stating anything objective, you just like the first generation more. But for subjective reasons.

There is nothing wrong with that - there is just no possible way you can justify it being objective. Saying someone is wrong because he has a different opinion on something entirely subjective ("which is your favorite Pokémon generation") makes you look like a fool though.


Not that this is really a point one can be objective on. I don't really have a favorite generation - As of recently I'm mostly a Smogonite (because that is the only Pokémon game I play and rarely at that) so Gen IV-VI are basically the same as I didn't even watch a single episode of the anime of those generations. Gen I obviously holds the nostalgia factor and neither II or III are that special to me, but to say that the quality of Pokémon declined across the generations is a bold statement to make.
But every Generation holds some filler Pokémon, and I think that is actually more true for the earlier generations (as they wanted to add specific numbers of Pokémon (like 150 for Generation I, +Mew, and 100 for Generation II, which is not the case for the later generations).
Last edited by ThunderWalker on Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Narts
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Narts » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:30 am

Would that someone, in the same order, not also be a fool for having an "opinion" on something "entirely subjective" in the first place.

He believes himself to be right, while bog is telling him to be wrong, which is another opinion, but no more or less foolish one.

Why ask a subjective question, when you know the answer is not going to be relevant to you in any way?

fudge idiot.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:34 am

Narts wrote:...
Never called him a fool, only that he made himself look like one. There is a subtle difference.

And dunno, doesn't everybody have opinions about subjective things? It's a natural thing, just don't state them as facts, which is exactly what Daisy did in his last post.
Last edited by ThunderWalker on Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Narts » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:36 am

If you don't believe it to be true, then it's not really your opinion.

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Pkdragon
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:38 am

4th gen is the worst gen bog how can you consider it better than anything
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Sven » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:59 am

thunderwalker is mostly a sodomite

also gen 1/2 are absolute garbage to playthrough, take your nostalgia goggles off.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:47 am

ThunderWalker wrote:Your points are entirely subjective, though, Daisy. blah blah blah tl;dr
Really? No crumpets. I never realised. Thank you for this insightful observation. I now see the light. All new Pokemon are amazing.
Pkdragon wrote:4th gen is the worst gen bog how can you consider it better than anything
I'm judging by the Pokemon designs, not the gameplay. I haven't played beyond 4th gen unless you count remakes.
Sven wrote:thunderwalker is mostly a sodomite

also gen 1/2 are absolute garbage to playthrough, take your nostalgia goggles off.
I hate JRPGs and barely consider most of them actual games, let alone good games. I am playing through Yellow right now and enjoying it in a "so bad it's good" way, but it is pure nostalgia. Mashing the A button helps me sleep.

In terms of design though, how anyone can say they haven't ran out of ideas is beyond me.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:23 am

i was going off designs too :<

let's just say i was going through the pokemon designs of gens 3-6 to find the best designs (for a post i never ended up posting), and while i could find countless fantastic designs in all the other generations, 4 i actually did have a hard time with. too many of them are just butchery of older pokemon.

the best i got is garchomp, and that is heavily influenced by how crazy powerful the last elite four guy's garchomp was in that gen.

ps: jrpgs are my favorite game genre :<
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:40 am

Yeah tbf, having not played them, I can't really judge beyond the various images I've found on the internet over the years. Those have been enough to put me off though.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Xenesis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:56 pm

I mostly judge the quality of Pokémon generations by how many turtle or tortoise Pokémon they have. Gen 2 didn't have a Turtle or Tortoise so it is objectively the worst generation.

But really, lots of the new gens have good stuff. Gen 4 IS absolutely awful (and compared to the megas in Gen 6, most of which are neat) they really weirded up a bunch of evolutions for Gen 1/2/3 pokémon. There's a lot of mons in Gen 5/6 I can get behind.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:33 pm

daisy wrote:
ThunderWalker wrote:Your points are entirely subjective, though, Daisy. blah blah blah tl;dr
Really? No crumpets. I never realised. Thank you for this insightful observation. I now see the light. All new Pokemon are amazing.
Then don't state it as if it were a fact. And considering the obnoxious nature of some "genwunners", well... let's say it can be a whole lot worse. I'm pretty sure you've seen some of those as well in the past.

And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of new Pokémon I personally dislike as well. Oshawott in Gen V for example, but nobody can say that Oshawott was not succesful, considering how much Oshawott-merchandise was sold. For me, that is fairly ridiculous, but there is something in that design that appeals to people even if I personally can't see it.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by Dragonite » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:31 pm

I'd say messing with existing evolution lines is indeed the one thing that can be called close to a objective bad design. Most of the gen IV added evo's that are disliked depart from the previous design in the line, of pokemon that once had the design of being finished, and both are oddly bulky in design and had a base speed drop. Electrivire is okay, Magnezone works if you get used to it, Magmortar looks somewhat odd. Stuff like Weavile and Glisor worked out fine though, so it's not all bad.

Mega pokemon have the liberty of making very modest changes to the design if they feel like it, so most of them are decent.

bog2

Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by bog2 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:20 pm

Thunderwalker it's called hyperbole. Chill.

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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by ThunderWalker » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:56 am

bog2 wrote:Thunderwalker it's called hyperbole. Chill.
I've dealt with too many people being actually serious about this, so I was fairly uncertain. Some go pretty darn far in proclaiming their love for Generation *insert number, but usually the first*.
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by scraggypunk » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:58 am

i quite like oshawott and its evolution but i don't like the third stage
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:04 am

Okay so I saw a Facebook post from the Pokemon page earlier about new Pokemon being discovered for Sun/Moon. Are all Pokemon from new gens "newly discovered?" Are they saying that no one in Pokemon land knew about the existence of Sentret before G/S/C? That Poochenya was unknown?

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scraggypunk
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by scraggypunk » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:22 am

yes
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by x0_000 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:44 am

in a surprising twist, animals are different in different parts of the world
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Re: Pokemon Sun and Moon. W00t, or something.

Post by daisy » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:59 am

Yeah but completely unknown? Johto is friggin' next door to Kanto.

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