Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

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WHAT DO YOU RATE THE SONG.

10/10
1
10%
9/10
1
10%
8/10
0
No votes
7/10
0
No votes
6/10
1
10%
5/10
2
20%
4/10
0
No votes
3/10
0
No votes
2/10
0
No votes
1/10
1
10%
0/10
4
40%
 
Total votes: 10

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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:41 am

I'd just like to point out that I've been a little peeved in this topic, and I half apologize and half want to explain where this is coming from.

My first thought is that hatred of someone like Kanye West when egotistical rock stars have been so wildly celebrated is obviously being racistly selective.

Now, very few of you said you disliked Kanye West on any such grounds, and I don't believe you all do. But if I see...
0/10 because it's Kanye West. Like I'm going to take some crumpets manufactured idiot who thinks he's the saviour of music / mankind and wants to run for president seriously.
Like, first of all the idea that Kanye West is manufactured is reveals such incredible ignorance of anything about him. The dude self-produces a whole bunch of his own crumpets and got famous because he worked really, really hard making beats. He is absolutely not the puppet of some record industry, and the idea that he would release something as loud and harsh as "Black Skinhead" if he was is totally laughable.

"My momma was raised in the era when/Clean water was only served to the fairer skin/Doin' clothes you would have thought I had help/But they wasn't satisfied unless I picked the cotton myself."

This is a line from "New Slaves," also embedded above. Kanye sees you, Bog, and you have selective vision for what's manufactured and what isn't.

Now, the rest of you.

You like what you like. This I respect, and you should know that. But at the same time, I do ask you to try to expand some of what you like (like, the moment that Linky had is such a moment) and break out of your box, because so much of all our musical tastes are built around cultural appropriation and white supremacy, and I think that it's pretty damn important to go out of your way to appreciate black artists (and not just ones that have been retroactively canonized or have been around long enough to breathe eternal) and the art that is typically created by black people.

So you like what you like, and that's my frustration, but also your valid reason, and not really your fault. But I think that simply remaining in that box enables a status quo that ends up being pretty bad for art.

We'll probably have a more interesting, less heated (Kanye-free) version of this conversation for the next song, which may go up tonight or maybe tomorrow.
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Narts

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Narts » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:49 am

Honestly I don't hate him. Barely I even know who he is. Justin Bieber I actively hate and that's why I felt justified voting 0 at him without even listening to the song.

This Kanye West character is someone I just avoid because I'm vaguely aware he is popular or something and rap isn't my thing anyway.

I have a similar relationship with Lemmy and metal bands that hilariously misuse the umlaut.

I was nearly about to write a longer, serious response but then I got far enough to read the part about "cultural appropriation and white supremacy" and broke out laughing so I'm afraid I can't do it anymore.

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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:56 am

I mean, I get that y'all do the whole "lol apathy" thing with the AW community and I guess that's kinda sorta fine but the shtick works a little bit less when we're talking structural racism and popular culture in a perpetual feedback loop.
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Narts

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Narts » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:15 am

I can assure you that when I do the whole lol apathy thing it's quite deliberate and not in any way a schtick.

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Pkdragon
Rank: very chuuni

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:53 am

Joey. I'm tired and not feeling amazing, so I'll keep this short and sweet and to the point.

If you want to have a discussion on racism, a "rate the song" topic probably isn't the place.

If you want to get genuine responses, starting the topic with "im going to call wwn racist" probably isn't the best way to get things started on the right tone

There's a lot to be said about this issue, but this wasn't the way to do it.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

daisy
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by daisy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:58 am

Joey wrote:I'd just like to point out that I've been a little peeved in this topic, and I half apologize and half want to explain where this is coming from.

My first thought is that hatred of someone like Kanye West when egotistical rock stars have been so wildly celebrated is obviously being racistly selective.

Now, very few of you said you disliked Kanye West on any such grounds, and I don't believe you all do. But if I see...
0/10 because it's Kanye West. Like I'm going to take some crumpets manufactured idiot who thinks he's the saviour of music / mankind and wants to run for president seriously.
Like, first of all the idea that Kanye West is manufactured is reveals such incredible ignorance of anything about him. The dude self-produces a whole bunch of his own crumpets and got famous because he worked really, really hard making beats. He is absolutely not the puppet of some record industry, and the idea that he would release something as loud and harsh as "Black Skinhead" if he was is totally laughable.

"My momma was raised in the era when/Clean water was only served to the fairer skin/Doin' clothes you would have thought I had help/But they wasn't satisfied unless I picked the cotton myself."

This is a line from "New Slaves," also embedded above. Kanye sees you, Bog, and you have selective vision for what's manufactured and what isn't.
Hm, well I Wikipedia'd Kanye's debut, The College Dropout. Results are below.
Hidden Text
Personnel

Information taken from The College Dropout liner notes.[21][80]

Jacob Andrew – engineer
Darrin Asemota – A&R
Thomassina Atkins – vocals
Burt Bacharach – composer
Rich Balmer – engineer
Miri Ben-Ari – arranger, producer, violin
Shalik Berry – A&R
The Boys Choir of Harlem – featured artist, guest artist, primary artist, vocals
Candis Brown – vocals
Albert E. Brumley – composer
Kareem "Biggs" Burke – executive producer
Jay-Z – executive producer, writer, primary artist
Common – featured Artist, guest artist, primary artist
Consequence – featured Artist, primary artist
Dave Dar – engineer
Damon Dash – executive producer
Andrew Dawson – engineer
Eric Duvauchelle – art direction, design
Michael Eleopoulos – engineer
Evidence – producer
Jamie Foxx – featured artist, guest artist, primary artist
Ramses Francois – A&R
Aretha Franklin – composer
Freeway – featured Artist, primary artist
Marcus Fuller – engineer
GLC – featured artist, performer, primary artist
Mike Godshall – art direction, design
Francis Graham – engineer
Terrence Hardy – vocals
L.D. Harris – composer
Lauryn Hill – composer
Diamond Alabi Isama – vocals
J. Ivy – featured artist
Eric Johnson – guitar
Syleena Johnson – featured artist, guest artist
Kyambo Joshua – A&R, executive producer
Tom Keane – composer
Anthony Kilhoffer – engineer



James Knight – vocals
Brent Kolatalo – engineer
Brandi Kuykenvall – vocals
Talib Kweli – featured artist, guest artist, primary artist
Darcell Lawrence – financial director
John Legend – vocals, backing vocals, piano
Ken Lewis – bass, guitar, instrumentation, keyboards, percussion, sampling
Ludacris – featured artist, guest artist, primary artist
Manny Marroquin – mixing
Beverly A. McCargo – vocals
Lavel Mena – vocals
B. Miller – composer
C.C. Mitchell – composer
Tim Morris – art direction, design
Mos Def – featured artist, guest artist, primary artist
Bobby Naugle – logo design
Jason Rauhoff – engineer
Patrick Reynolds – A&R
Lauri Rowe – art
Tatsuya Sato – engineer
Eddy Schreyer – mastering
Kevin Shannon – vocals
Tiera Singleton – vocals
Keith Slattery – engineer, keyboards
Dante Smith – composer
Tracie Spencer – backing vocals
Eugene Toale – vocals
Tarrey Torae – vocals
Twista – featured artist, primary artist
Aisha Tyler – vocals
Tony Vanias – recording coordinator
Cynthia Weil – composer
Kanye West – main composer, executive producer, primary artist,
Tony Williams – vocals
Cam Wilson – composer
R. Wilson – composer
Carlisle Young – engineer
Josh Zandman – piano
I guess Universal Records need to make money somehow. And his personality still sucks, unless it's just clever marketing. (lol)

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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:21 pm

Pkdragon wrote:Joey. I'm tired and not feeling amazing, so I'll keep this short and sweet and to the point.

If you want to have a discussion on racism, a "rate the song" topic probably isn't the place.

If you want to get genuine responses, starting the topic with "im going to call wwn racist" probably isn't the best way to get things started on the right tone

There's a lot to be said about this issue, but this wasn't the way to do it.
Trying to advise me on tone isn't a very productive way to do it. And I didn't even call you racists. I said that you, like the entire world include me, have their taste in media significantly colored by cultural appropriation and white supremacy. To an extent, this is fine! Elvis Presley is a big example of the former, and he's great anyway.

But I'm not calling you all racist, unless I'm saying that everyone is racist (hint: we are). I'm saying that, like almost everyone, the apathy towards cultures of color, while not individually damning, is a more innocent slice of a larger problem. People grow as they explore this.
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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:23 pm

Bog, did you just diss a piece of art because a lot of people were involved, often to very minimal extents? Sure, Kanye West isn't DIY like, say, grimes, but he does put in a lot of work.

"Five beats a day for three summers?!"
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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:26 pm

If you want to get genuine responses, starting the topic with "im going to call wwn racist" probably isn't the best way to get things started on the right tone
I'd just like to point out that I didn't even do this. I didn't start with it, or say it anywhere.
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Pkdragon
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:30 pm

Joey wrote:Week 1, Justin Bieber's "What Do You Mean?": 4.3

I'm ready to call y'all a buncha racists.



This is from 2013 Yeezus, but Kanye's new album, Waves, drops February 11. Brace yourself.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Pkdragon
Rank: very chuuni

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Pkdragon » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:31 pm

like im not making stuff up it was the second line of the topic
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:41 pm

Oh, that. That was a joke about how I've reacted before. Self-deprecation.
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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:46 pm

More understandable misunderstanding!

But yeah, I'm not calling y'all a bunch of racists. We're just all exposed to popular culture through the same lens of white supremacy and always have been.

So rather than the Avenue Q message of "we're all a little bit racist, so let's all be okay with how racist we are," I'm saying "we're all a little bit racist, and examining this and challenging ourselves is how we grow as people, and music's a pretty great start to that!"
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Dragonite
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Dragonite » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:51 pm

I knee-jerk dislike rap because I don't find anything that reflects my own emotions and feelings in it. Rap to me is raw and streetwise, and at times unsubtle about themes I don't care about. This is also partly due to white rappers. The netherlands had to deal with a awful summer hit.
As of right now I still don't like the song at all, but I ought to read the lyrics.

And Joey, I know you don't think we're racist, but reading a wall of text about white supremacy warping our preconceptions still comes across as preachy. I'm aware of my own bias as a west-European white male, and have been privatly thinking about it for years. That being said, I'm finding the manner in which you judge me and other non-trolling members jarring and disrespecful. I'm interested in talking about the topic, but please be mindful about how your phrasing comes across.

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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:47 pm

I am. It's really not something to take harshly, and reacting negatively to it is really just something that most people should get over, because that's an insecurity that you pretty much need to whittle down if you ever actually ever offend a person of color.
That being said, I'm finding the manner in which you judge me and other non-trolling members jarring and disrespecful.
At first I thought this was a little ridiculous, but there is a reason why I do feel compelled to bring it up, not just because I want to talk at y'all.
I've been on here for a long time. Some of y'all raised me! I grew up with ya. And I feel attached to ya, so I lament when people try to present their takes as apolitical or devoid of how we've been brought up in culture, because an apolitical take is actually impossible, and everyone grows up with the culture.

Basically, I decry the "I just don't like the song" philosophy because, gosh, there's so much more to unpack with that. And I wish some of y'all would, because I've been with you for a long time, and it's hard to see people unwilling to be reflective on the patterns with which they do and don't like art.

But I will note that while talking about this, I'm not particularly sympathetic to people thinking I'm accusing them of racism or whatever. If that happens, talk about why you don't think so, not how hurt you are or whatever. Because being called a racist or a sexist or what have you is a lot less of an event than the racism or sexism that may or may not be being discussed. But I do promise that if I actually think a member here is a racist (I didn't even called Bog's very racially suspect comment racist, for the record), I'll say it rather than beat around the bush.
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scraggypunk
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by scraggypunk » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:18 pm

"power" is my favourite song of his
wisdom
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Joey

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:31 pm

"power" is pretty fudge awesome
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Narts

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Narts » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:26 pm

You can repeat the buzzwords as much as you want but the end result is the same as the last time I lectured you on this.

If the words mean nothing and nobody understands what you mean, then what's the point.

If you actually have any kind of a point at all, you need to work on your rhetoric and how you make things across.

daisy
Rank: Crucified in the Great Meme War

Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by daisy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:11 am

Joey wrote:Bog, did you just diss a piece of art because a lot of people were involved, often to very minimal extents? Sure, Kanye West isn't DIY like, say, grimes, but he does put in a lot of work.

"Five beats a day for three summers?!"
FFS stop posting three times in a row.

Yes. It proves what I said about him being manufactured garbage with a god complex. (literally)

Also apparently I'm racist because I don't like a black artist okay right.

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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Linkman » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:30 am

As McTool said a while back, you have to separate artist from art, man. Roman Polanski is an awful human being but that doesn't make Chinatown any less of a great film.

It's difficult to do yes, but we must try!

I do find Kanye douchey as much as you guys, though rather than hate on him I find it hilarious. Just look for "best Kanye moments" on youtube, it's a riot.
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Xenesis
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Xenesis » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:34 am

daisy wrote:FFS stop posting three times in a row.
Yeah, I mean, I don't mind if the posts are like hours or days apart, but if they're within 5 minutes just use the edit function.

I'll be honest, this whole conversation is basically lost on me. I am to being a music fan as a person playing angry birds on their phone is to videogames.
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Dragonite
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Dragonite » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:34 pm

I actually don't know that much about him either. He's a rapper and married to a reality star, and sometimes they pop up in the news. The first thing I think of with Kayne is that his child ended up having North West as a name, of which I'm not sure if it's a novel idea or has to much risk for being a magnet for jokes.

Wrote my earlier post on my phone on a sleepless night, so I might have been a bit sharp. I was genuine about ''I don't really know what to think of this and I don't connect with it''. I have noted the need to take a closer look to things, but it's was merely that for me, and I didn't like how loaded concepts got linked to it so quickly. Still, music rating is a fun exercise for stuff I would never care to look up myself. I might ''return fire'' at some point*coughtheonebandIbuyalbumsofhasanewonecough*.

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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by ThunderWalker » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:13 am

Ehr, rap is not really my thing. Could have given it a 0/10 for that, but that is too harsh and even I can judge that the rap isn't bad enough to deserve that.
I liked the instrumentals though, but the points I wanted to add for the instrumentals were substracted because of the annoying cawing noises.


5/10
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by daisy » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:22 pm

I am actually slightly miffed at being called a racist. I never mentioned his skin colour. There's only one person here who thinks skin colour matters at all, so who's the real racist?

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scraggypunk
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by scraggypunk » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:09 am

it's still you
wisdom
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Bonesy
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by Bonesy » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:57 am

can a dog be racist

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scraggypunk
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Re: Rate the Song #2: Kanye West's "Black Skinhead"

Post by scraggypunk » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:16 am

i just remembered that's west in estelle's "american boy"
that's his best performance
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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