Advance Wars: Project

Discussion of complete and in-progress major AW Hacks or Projects - challenge hacks, War Room map packs, Online Advance Wars sims.

Moderator: Terragent

User avatar
donnytondesterkste
Rank: Platinum Dragon
Location: In your dreams
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by donnytondesterkste » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:22 am

Kireato wrote:
Theorytarding destroyed us.
lol
Yes, a rock-rock-rock TBS becomes more about resource and unit management to overpower the opponent, not just countering them.
If the only available option is rock, than you'll just try to spam as many rocks as you can and resource management goes out the window. And again, if you've only got rocks, you can swap their positions as many times as you want, you'll still have the same formation of units and that's all the unit management you'll get out of them.
You're taking the phrase waayyyy to literally...
"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

User avatar
Kireato

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Kireato » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:24 am

What did it mean then?
Image
"Hey, it's the Kir. Wee." - Linkman 145
"I can't help myself sometimes... :cry:" -Help Topic Guest

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xenesis » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:26 pm

I am curious also.

If there isn't a way for units to counter each other (soft, hard or otherwise) then how do you get any unit variety?
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
donnytondesterkste
Rank: Platinum Dragon
Location: In your dreams
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by donnytondesterkste » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:35 pm

Basically, rock paper scissors implies that one unit is a complete counter for the other. If I build a tank, a surefire way for you to counter it would be with a (properly implemented) anti-tank.

While the AW unit game isn't perfect, it's nice in that we have fair options between say, a copter, an artillery, or a tank of our own to counter enemy tanks. There isn't the quick reach for an anti-tank as soon as you see a tank.

The idea is that each unit fulfills a different battlefield purpose somewhat independent of the enemy units, and how you utilize those units determines the victory. Instead of just basing your build order on counters for the opponent, you base it on what kind of army will work best overall.

The exception to this is units like AA which are clear counters, and put in for balancing purposes.
"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

User avatar
Alecat
Rank: Stalker
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Alecat » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:32 pm

I thought this hack made Inf. a reasonable tank counter also?

User avatar
Sniffit II
Rank: TWANG
Location: The Kitchen (of mild peril)

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Sniffit II » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:28 pm

IT'LL BE AWESOME

Damn, it. I'm withholding theorytardation untill I play this game, and to me, it looks like it'll be awesome.
i don't know what a bishop ninja is but if it can still move diagonal without being seen it's got my vote - Pkdragon

FEAR ME, FEAR THE FIRE THAT BURNS IN MY BALLS, VERIDIAN FOREST! - Dragonite

Vote Sniffit for Space Dictator.

User avatar
Sven

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Sven » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:58 am

i don't see what all this fear is about unit imbalance, games vs the AI you can use whatever unit composition you like, and 80% games vs other humans end based on capping mistakes/some retard throwing away his first vehicle, not errors in unit composition after day 9+

User avatar
Kireato

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Kireato » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:05 am

Basically, rock paper scissors implies that one unit is a complete counter for the other. If I build a tank, a surefire way for you to counter it would be with a (properly implemented) anti-tank.

While the AW unit game isn't perfect, it's nice in that we have fair options between say, a copter, an artillery, or a tank of our own to counter enemy tanks. There isn't the quick reach for an anti-tank as soon as you see a tank.
At this point, I'm pretty sure the real issue you have with the anti-tank is its name.

There is no such thing as a properly implemented complete counter unit in AW. You've mentioned AA as being counters, and the unit it really counters is the Bcopter. But the Bcopter has air movement and can sometimes move faster than the AA and not be countered.

Take a DoR anti-tank. If a tank, or a md tank, or a wartank tries to take it on one on one, it will get destroyed cost effectively. If two tanks (14000 G) take on an anti-tank (11000G), they will destroy it cost effectively (11000G destroyed for 7000G lost).
The idea is that each unit fulfills a different battlefield purpose somewhat independent of the enemy units, and how you utilize those units determines the victory. Instead of just basing your build order on counters for the opponent, you base it on what kind of army will work best overall.
Suppose that there existed such a thing as an army composition that worked best overall. Then the dumbest A.I. in the world could churn it out again and again and it would obviously be little fun.
The exception to this is units like AA which are clear counters, and put in for balancing purposes.

Here's a thought experiment: remove AA from the game. What happens?
Image
"Hey, it's the Kir. Wee." - Linkman 145
"I can't help myself sometimes... :cry:" -Help Topic Guest

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:16 am

Might I ask how things are going?

User avatar
donnytondesterkste
Rank: Platinum Dragon
Location: In your dreams
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by donnytondesterkste » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:42 am

slowly, i would assume
"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xenesis » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:44 am

Yeah, I spent most of last week being unwell and this week being exhausted so progress has been slow.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:50 am

Well, don't burn yourself out. It's not like we're strangers to waiting.

User avatar
donnytondesterkste
Rank: Platinum Dragon
Location: In your dreams
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by donnytondesterkste » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:54 am

Burn yourself out! Don't let AWP become CW!
"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:30 pm

Burning out while retaining creative authority wouldn't be that detrimental, I suppose; if you want to end up like Custom Wars, install a voting booth and follow its verdicts without question.

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:43 am

I've also been at a loss of what to show off next..but I have some ideas now.

(Also, anything anyone is really burning to find out about? :) )

User avatar
kiwi

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by kiwi » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:49 am

FORGED STEEL

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:50 am

IT'S HILARIOUSLY POWERFUL.

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:45 pm

Hmm, does it restore hit points as well, or just upgrade tank classes?

User avatar
donnytondesterkste
Rank: Platinum Dragon
Location: In your dreams
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by donnytondesterkste » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:51 pm

Xen wrote:I've also been at a loss of what to show off next..but I have some ideas now.

(Also, anything anyone is really burning to find out about? :) )
How will AI work with the new mechanics? Piss poor I hope not?
"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:15 pm

Donny, I'm a hacker not a miracle worker. The AI won't be leaps and bounds above the AW2 AI even if everything goes to plan.

User avatar
CO_Frosty
Location: Fortaleza/Ceara/Brazil

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by CO_Frosty » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:02 am

It is a very interesting project you have back there, Xen. I love how you play with the boundaries of the "politically correct" (invisible units? mechs loading on AAs? preposterous!).


Looking forward to playing it. It sure seems to be really fun.

User avatar
kiwi

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by kiwi » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:19 am

FROSTY SIGHTING
AND I DON'T THINK HE'S BEING COMPLETELY SARCASTIC

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:25 am

Only mostly.

Say, Frosty, want another AW project with politically correct balance? Check out Commander Wars.

User avatar
CO_Frosty
Location: Fortaleza/Ceara/Brazil

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by CO_Frosty » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:11 am

As weird as it may seem, I am not being sarcastic. At all. I really like all the unique mechanics being introduced and mostly how every unit is being designed to fill in a very specific role.

As for Commander Wars...I am glad that all the work we've put on CW was put to SOME use....other than giving me headaches, of course. But I'll need some time to actually form an opinion about it.

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:59 am

Yeah, Commander Wars gives me a nostalgia-induced headache as well. Probably why I'm doing wacky things with the project.

The balancing approach has basically been a three step approach till this point:

1) Screw Balance.
2) Is it fun?
3) Repeat 1).

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:06 am

It's nice to approach a game as a game again, isn't it? Instead of, say, work.

User avatar
CO_Frosty
Location: Fortaleza/Ceara/Brazil

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by CO_Frosty » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:15 am

exactly.

Balance is largely overrated. Surely not worth the trouble.

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:40 pm

Well, it is important...but it's mostly a single-player hack anyhow.

So having fun with it is more important.

User avatar
HPD
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Mentat
Location: The Mountain
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by HPD » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:40 pm

It's a philosophy I've adopted since like 2007. <_<
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xenesis » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:29 pm

IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:27 am

Hmm, only one?

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:58 am

Actually, as many as I want.

It's just tedious inputting it byte by byte by hand so I just used a quick example :)

User avatar
DieselPheonix

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by DieselPheonix » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:35 am

Oh, do you need to account for the unit's position as well?

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xenesis » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:22 am

Not especially.

The game doesn't really care too much if you've accidentally overlapped units, but I do need to set each individual unit's x/y co-ordinates, HP, unit type, fuel, ammo and AI settings.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
HPD
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Mentat
Location: The Mountain
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by HPD » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:27 am

Now we know how IS lost their sanity.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

User avatar
Xenesis
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Hydrocarbon Inspector
3DS Code: 2535-4646-7163
Location: 0x020232DD
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xenesis » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:54 am

Actually, I would assume they had a rudimentary map editor for these things.
IST wrote:Even the worst individual needs to discover the joys of a chicken statue that is also a pregnant blonde housewife.

User avatar
deemo
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by deemo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:24 pm

xeeeeeeen
when is this going to get updated again
please please please don't let this die
i love you

Xen

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by Xen » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:01 pm

This thing called an honours thesis happened.

I haven't slept properly in a month :|

(I'll see if I can put up something sometime soon something)

User avatar
kiwi

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by kiwi » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:33 am

is that one o those things you have to do to become an mad scientist

User avatar
HPD
Tri-Star CO
Tri-Star CO
Rank: Mentat
Location: The Mountain
Contact:

Re: Advance Wars: Project

Post by HPD » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:53 am

pretty much, yes
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest