Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by MysteriousLad » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:01 am

May I ask how you got that reference?
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:36 am

It does help that Argentinia is kind of haughty about Brazil's loss. And I read a dutch article today that reveals that most dutch hatred of Germany has actually mended the past few years. The nineties are ages ago now. >_>

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:21 am

I want Germany to lose, really really badly.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by McTool » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:44 pm

^ this

Edit: quality post, McTool
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:03 am

Even after losing to them 7-1, I'm rooting straight for the Germans.

They were such gentlemen about it too.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:55 am

Of course, there's Netherlands vs Brazil first. It's kind of a difficult match for some, but best thing is to just man up and go for it. Who's going to win 3th place? I frankly have no idea. Brazil might revise their tactics this time around, and surely they avoid another huge loss, but the Netherlands aren't weak either. Dutch morale is already recovering. What do you know about Brazil Linky?

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by HPD » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:59 am

germans all the waaaayyyy
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:07 am

Dragonite wrote:Of course, there's Netherlands vs Brazil first. It's kind of a difficult match for some, but best thing is to just man up and go for it. Who's going to win 3th place? I frankly have no idea. Brazil might revise their tactics this time around, and surely they avoid another huge loss, but the Netherlands aren't weak either. Dutch morale is already recovering. What do you know about Brazil Linky?
Things are worse than ever if you ask me. If it were argentina I think we'd be able to muser national pride and win it, but as it is, I expect you to win.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by MysteriousLad » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:20 am

Nice that the Dutch came third and the Brazilians can walk away in shame but Im rooting for Germany, our enemies enemy is our friend so Argentina beat us and now they shall pay! Good match so far
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by MysteriousLad » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:21 am

And linky you Brazilian?
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:40 am

Yeah I Brazilian
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by MysteriousLad » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:06 am

Winner is Germany!!!
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:21 am

Messi winning best tournament is a shot in the face for Muller.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:59 am

Also makes no sense.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:03 am

"hey you played terribly all tournament have best player"

also shout out to the daniel bryan knee from the german keeper

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:30 am

Should've been a yellow tbh, though it was outside the box before anyone complains.

So yeah. Congrats to the deutschersfolk.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:41 am

Sorry, Argentina.

[youtube]zyn8BJ1Uvzw[/youtube]

World Cup closing thoughts.

1. I don't like rooting for what's expected.

2. Unfortunate when the simple lack of a title can rob a person of serious consideration for G.O.A.T.

3. Germany were the best team in the World Cup. The three best teams won the top three slots. Germany devastated Brazil, Argentina entertained the world with their star player, and Netherlands devastated Spain, each having many matches that demonstrated their greatness.

4. Was Brazil even the fourth best? Probably not. I don't think that Brazil came out of any of their games being able to say, "You see that? That's what the best damn team looks like." Except maybe against what could have been the weakest team in the Cup, Cameroon. The Croatia win was riddled with accusations of corruption. They tied Mexico. They slid by Chile. Colombia said they were unimpressed by Brazil, who won on two setpieces and were otherwise outplayed. They were embarrassed by the Netherlands, but not before what will probably be the most legendary embarrassment in World Cup history, on their home turf. France and Costa Rica probably had a better World Cup than Brazil, and not just relative to expectation.

5. Best game was USA vs. Portugal, and I don't think it's just nationalism saying that.

6. "Winners" of the World Cup?
Lionel Messi, who despite a lack of a title should be spoken of on the level of Pelé and Maradona.
Tim Howard, who was shafted in awards but gave young Americans a bona fide icon, finally, and just in time for him to (probably?) never play in a World Cup ever again.
Miguel Herrera, who couldn't bring Mexico past their barrier but unexpectedly brought them to it, tying favorite Brazil and becoming an internet meme along the way.
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver also produced one of the loudest-ever calling-outs of FIFA and greatly benefited from it.
Lots of other great news sources capitalized. Vox was born and flourished from, among many things, the Cup. ClickHole's birth lined up with the Cup and its coverage has been delightfully insane. Slate.com and others joined in with various great coverage.
Even a loser site I'm about to mention had great stuff, including great predictions and models especially during the group stage (although I think their only incorrect bets during the knockout stage were Brazil's final two matches).
Also a winner? The protesters. And with Brazil's embarrassing ending, they have access to rile up a nation that's freshly pissed off.

7. The losers?
Brazil, duh. The team and certainly the nation.
Also, FiveThirtyEight and Nate Silver. While I understand the nature of probability and predictions in that they WILL fail you, this was a bit of a blow to the image and definitely a wake up call to their model, at least for this particular event (although perhaps tourneys in general?). Hopefully their future model incorporates not just injuries but also success within the tournament into their model.
Along with that? FIFA. They look bad. Attention was drawn to the Qatar ridiculousness, bribery, and everything else thanks to the way that the internet is gradually learning to put corporations underneath a microscope. Many of the children today who play in the World Cup tomorrow will be far more acutely aware of the badness that is FIFA.
Oh, Spain. Yeah. Spain.

8. Best wishes to Brazil, who is now done with one of two international sports organizations pummeling the crumpets out of it.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:45 am

PS you guys are objectively dumb if you think Messi didn't perform in the tournament.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:02 am

I think I can safely say I have more experience than you in this, Joey.

Messi did not perform. He had moments, but was largely ineffective in the world cup. Mainly because he was heavily marked, which is not a reflection on his quality.

Did you honestly see him do anything game-changing at the semi-finals or finals? Why should we think him a better player than, say, James Rodríguez or Robben or Muller? Robben also had double marks in pretty much every game, and he managed to be relevant in all of them.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Terragent » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:37 am

Also relevant is the fact that it is a team game - a player is most valuable not when they are most skilled, but when they contribute the most to the team's effort. Lionel Messi is the star of his team, yes, but the German team was a veritable constellation - they had quality players from top to bottom and, critically, they worked together flawlessly. Germany won through hard work, co-operation, and discipline, and for me that alone makes all of the German players very impressive figures in a sport where it's very easy to lose sight of the big picture and indulge your ego at the expense of your team's effort.

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:31 am

Lionel Messi is the star of his team, yes, but the German team was a veritable constellation - they had quality players from top to bottom and, critically, they worked together flawlessly. Germany won through hard work, co-operation, and discipline, and for me that alone makes all of the German players very impressive figures in a sport where it's very easy to lose sight of the big picture and indulge your ego at the expense of your team's effort.
And this is absolutely why Germany won, and why Germany is recognized as the best team in the world (some are already saying the best in history?!?!?! not that I'm at a place to disagree). But asserting that Messi wasn't a playmaker this Cup because he didn't score goals in two games that ended regular time at 0-0 is a little ridiculous. And the fact is that, while in less clutch games perhaps, much of the most ridiculous playmaking of the Cup came from him.

Crossing sports, I'd agree that he didn't bring out the best in his team in the way that another greatest-in-their-sport like LeBron James does, although the thing about soccer/football is that there are precious fewer stats by which you can notice things like that (it really doesn't help that things in soccer/football just kind of happen to occur less often, making sampling hard as the dickens).

Now, let's revisit selfish playing, about how it's a team game, etc. Yes, I understand that. But if you take a look at stats (both in and out of the Cup) it's pretty clear that the "selfish" method of playing isn't Messi's, it's Argentina's. They build their actions around their superstar because they don't have the depth themselves. Obviously, this is why they're a worse team than Germany. Duh. But the point stands that Messi brought his team to the final (or the semifinal, if you wanna be finicky) when the rest of his team just wasn't.

I also think that dismissing Messi's claim to the award places a disproportionate emphasis on this past week.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:36 am

I think it makes sense to say others deserved the award more. I think dismissing the award as entirely silly is, well, silly.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:50 am

I've watched Messi since what, 2005? He displayed a fraction of his potential.

I wouldn't say Messi had a great world cup. It wasn't awful, sure, but it wasn't great. Even the Argies themselves are saying, and I quite agree, Mascherano and Di María were far more important for them.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Bonesy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:52 am

cool time to not care about soccer again

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:59 am

hopefully the statheads come rolling out in the next few days on this so we don't have to do any work
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:09 pm

Only Americans care about stats.

The rest of the world saw Messi was... adequate.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:49 pm

Image

Also this is the best team at the world cup according to stats, from Statisticians Opta (Very well respected bunch of folks.) The Opta scoring system is devised by working out an overall score based on more than 250 statistical events, with each event having a positive/negative score awarded based on its outcome. More important stat categories are weighted more heavily, so crucial stats during games make a difference (goals, assists, clean sheets, etc).
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:11 pm

One thing to note is that truly great football relies on great teamwork, and just generally have a feeling how to pass. Germany excelled at this. There's also luck, circumstance, psychology, and fitness of course. Would a mashup team ever truly function as a great whole?

Thing with Messi is that the team relied on giving him chances. So it's only logical he got to do as much as he did. However, it looked like he wasn't fit enough to truly stand out. In the final he operated mostly in dangerous bursts, but he and his team just weren't good enough to pull the counter strategy off. They got dangerous in places, but... Germany took the initative, and eventually managed to finally pierce their defense in the end. It says something they were able do pierce it as much as they did, even if they didn't score until the end. The Netherlands failed to pierce them completely. Looking at those very last minutes I wonder if Messi could've done more if they played offensively as a team. How does he usually play in his own club?

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:05 pm

Barca is built similar to Argentina, really, with a few more attacking options though.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:56 am

Alves and Rojo? Wow. With Lahm and Blind screaming for vengeance?
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:26 am

I know! But that's what the stats read according to Opta.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by HPD » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:30 am

don't cry for me argentiiiiinaaaa

Also, on the subject of best player, the FIFA also posted the ranks according to certain statistics. Whatever it's based on, I do more or less agree with the list:
  1. 1. Toni Kroos (GER)
    2. Arjen Robben (NED)
    3. Stefan de Vrij (NED)
    4. Mats Hummels (GER)
    5. Thomas Müller (GER)
    6. Karim Benzema (FRA)
    7. Oscar (BRA)
    8. Thiago Silva (BRA)
    9. Marcos Rojo (ARG)
    10. Ron Vlaar (NED)
Messi is 11th, which sounds about right to me. Funny, though, how the FIFA also hosts this ranking and then decides that the 11th player is the best one.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by MysteriousLad » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:45 am

I love Holland for being a tiny country yet making their presence very clear however they can. Football is amazing for example, a country of 17 million people beating a country like spain (Dont know how many but many more million people) is pretty cool.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:13 am

It's on facebook but my ideal XI:

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David Luiz is mostly an affectionate choice, if forced I would have Vlaar.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Thu May 28, 2015 4:09 am

lol FIFA. That´s all.

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Terragent » Thu May 28, 2015 11:16 am

To be honest, I'm surprised it took this long.

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Thu May 28, 2015 6:32 pm

I'm unsure I will be able to enjoy Quatar with the huge death toll it already has. It's still seven years, I hope the deal blows up before then.

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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by ThunderWalker » Thu May 28, 2015 6:36 pm

I think the FBI didn't want to have to deal with a "lack of evidence" when in the court, so they took several years to gather everything they needed before setting everything into motion.

And yeah, it might be that Qatar, and maybe Russia too, get taken out, with Great Britain England hosting it in 2018 and Netherlands/Belgium hosting in 2022 if both tournaments are reasiggned, and a coinflip between these two if only 2022 is.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Dragonite » Thu May 28, 2015 8:07 pm

That would be.. odd. Russia's going to boycot the next WC if they get the boot though(and nobody(that I care about) will miss them). The odds of that are lower then Qatar however. The lack of a football presence there, the climate(and shifting the tournament to winter long after the assignment), and the huge pile of bodies are rather troubling.
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Re: Where the heck is our WORLD CUP TOPIC

Post by Linkman » Thu May 28, 2015 10:02 pm

I don't think Russia will be changed, though we should all boycott Qatar.
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