POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:18 am

no probs
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Linkman
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:33 am

Can I ask why the mafia threw the game? I mean sure it was broken but it's not like we haven't played broken games before.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:34 am

Btw PK/Sven A++ thanks for the win.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Pkdragon » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:40 am

Linkman wrote:Can I ask why the mafia threw the game? I mean sure it was broken but it's not like we haven't played broken games before.
it was mostly our amazingly planned gamewinning strategy that did it, but also satel realized that sandstorm was broken in that it basically only targeted town, meaning almost everyone except mafia would be damaged.

problem is instead of fixing the interaction behind the scenes so it wasn't a giveaway, satel told hpd this and hpd folded (this all went down in the IRC of course). it was basically the straw that broke the camel's back.
Btw PK/Sven A++ thanks for the win.
youre welcome
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:41 am

Fair enough.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by MysteriousLad » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:40 pm

Oh wow
Whyyyyyy
It let me make my own fake moveset!
So I could fakeclaim
"i put on my robe and wizard hat" ~Pkdragon
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by scraggypunk » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:04 pm

lol
wisdom
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Alecat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Well I was gonna be sad that the day passed and I wasn't able to submit my Bulk Up. But now I'm sad the game is over :(

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Airnike
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Airnike » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:24 pm

Same. I had extremely solid Sturdy Shedinja and Pidgey claims.
I wanted to Whirlwind pk all game so he didn't have any day action and if he kept attacking me day 1 my red card would've taken out his day 2 action! I had a PERFECT plan and bro ruined it because I was the ONLY townie to resist crumpets.
#FML
MysteriousLad be like:
Oh hello, I am MysteriousLad.
Do you know when I was an OP player? When I wasn't in WWN and massclaims were legit good? Yea I miss the days I could force town to claim, rout out the mafia, and win the game for free day 3. Sometimes without being killed!
Senpai HPD notices me everyday when I'm town, do no scum play, and still get lynched day 1.
Anyway, it's time to go and ask people to claim and go lynch those who don't with my high-skill OP role.
I am MysteriousLad.

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:52 pm

Explosion would've hit hard on anything that didn't resist it/. Kir had an attack in the 700s. 731 to be exact.

Let me run those calcs, then I'll post the PMs... if you don't.

Also, Explosion would've ended the day because Kir faints.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:06 pm

Damage on Q: 250 (Explosion base power) * 731 (Genesect's Attack) / 235 (Blissey's Defense) = 777 HP → KO
Damage on K: 250 * 731 / 195 = 937 HP → KO
Damage on PK: 250 * 731 / 185 *2 (Super-effective) = 1975 HP → Focus Sash leaves him at 1HP
Damage on Airnike: 250 * 731 / 285 / 2 (Resisted) = 320 HP → 60 HP left
Damage on Sven: 250 * 731 / 235 = 777 HP → KO
Damage on Alecat: 250 * 731 / 265 * 2 = 1379 HP → KO, also Weakness Policy triggers for crumpets and giggles
Damage on GoD: 250 * 731 / 355 = 514 HP → KO (lol 4HP overkill)
Damage on Hawkes: 250 * 731 / 195 * 2 = 1874 HP → KO
Damage on Linkman: 250 * 731 / 195 = 937 HP → KO

That's it folks, Mafia vs Airnike and PK it would've been!
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by MysteriousLad » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:42 am

Why not use pokemons actual formula?
Just google it.
"i put on my robe and wizard hat" ~Pkdragon
"rocks fall everyone dies" ~HPD
Welcome to the optimistic world of WWN :D

And logic doesn't work on MysteriousLad... ~Kireato
Wait, wait, wait.

Organized crime is selling bagels on television? Since when? ~Dragon Fogel

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by HPD » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:01 am

Explosion was instant win then for us. And here we thought we actually had to wear town down first...
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Pkdragon » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:19 am

MysteriousLad wrote:Why not use pokemons actual formula?
Just google it.
Ultimately, This isn't pokemon, this is mafia. I'd rather Satel be in control and have full understanding of the formula he uses.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:30 am

This is pokemon's actual formula without considering many kinds of BS and the RNG cutting down up to 15% of any attack's damage.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:31 am

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Un3vV9LBBtK

Here is the Mafia QT if people wanna see it.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:21 am

Satel wrote:This is pokemon's actual formula without considering many kinds of BS and the RNG cutting down up to 15% of any attack's damage.
That's kinda complicated: mind if I propose a simplification? Go the way of Pokemon cards. All mons have an HP, and the attack simply deals a fixed amount of damage. Attack, Defense, Speed, EVs, that's all unnecessary.

Further, I think everyone would love to pick their own Pokes. Why not have a list of, say, 20 and we do a Top 3 list and you work it out from there? The Lad worked it out with AWMAfia.

We all love Pokemon!
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by HPD » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:34 am

these are all very good suggestions
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:48 am

If you want to do that for your own POKéMAF, go ahead, but POKéMON card meta is too simplistic in my opinion.

It's a whole different gimmick, so anyone can go for that.

Also, if you wanna pick your own POKéMON for the next POKéMAF, go ahead and get me a list here. I'll need time to set it up, and the earlier I know what you want, the better.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by HPD » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:02 am

I'd host a pokemaf, if you can give me a hand in building pokés and movesets.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:08 am

Ember/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Fly Charizard please.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:11 am

@HPD: sure, i'd help
although, it's pretty hard to catch each other with just the IRC or PMs.

@Linky: I'll need more options than that, and I will decide the movesets anyways. xD Why not four fire moves though?
Last edited by Satel on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Linkman
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:12 am

#it'sajoke #professoring
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Gentleman of Dread » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:42 am

yes i would like to be god again
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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:44 am

sorry GoD the joke's ruined now T-T

Dragonite being Dragonite and GoD being God isn't funny anymore T_T
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Dragonite » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:30 am

Just remember...

There can be only one.

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by MysteriousLad » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:26 pm

Make me Shuckle, Weavile, Breloom or Gallade
"i put on my robe and wizard hat" ~Pkdragon
"rocks fall everyone dies" ~HPD
Welcome to the optimistic world of WWN :D

And logic doesn't work on MysteriousLad... ~Kireato
Wait, wait, wait.

Organized crime is selling bagels on television? Since when? ~Dragon Fogel

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:41 am

Hm...

I calc'd a bit. Seems I share Joey's love of math lol.

Just with dividing all damage by √14 (just under 3.75), the setup as it is sounds pretty good, even though a bit slow.

With items, and EVs and all, Life Orb 100 Attack Tyranitar only deals 107 damage to 100 Defense Blissey with STAB Pursuit. Without EVs it only goes up to 142. Without items? I'm not even trying. Blissey's supposed to be vulnerable to physical attacks, not only take 20%, dammit.

Also, yes, this is pretty much Captain's Log.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by HPD » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:50 am

The thing is, Satel, this is not Pokémon. This is mafia. Think that you'd pretty much need the majority of people attacking you in a single day in order to actually die. With 14 people in the game, you'll want your mon to be able to tank 7 or 8 regular hits before dying. Probably more, since damage stacks between phases.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Dragonite » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:06 am

Perhaps some slight recovery between days would aid as well, it would soften the blow of poorly aimed attacks in the early-game. I agree with HPD here. It's going to be very hard to pull of a decent game if you stay too true to pokemon. Modern OU is rather offensive, has many pokemon with silly amounts of power, and the Items and EV's empower this offensive system(could you reveal the EV's picked in this game satel?) To top it of, gen V also has a major problem in weather being extremely dominant. Pokemon pretty much die in 1-2 hits indeed. Compounding this is that as side effect of mafia is that you created a huge battle royale which the formula isn't designed for. Even 2 attacks already proved too much.

I have to say, taking this all in mind, this game was a succes after all: many pokemon matches on Smogon OU seem to be curbstomps as far as I heard.

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:08 am

I agree with HPD. If you want to play text Pokemon, go ahead, but if you want to play Pokemon-themed Mafia, then you should make some gross simplifications.
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Alecat » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:34 am

I do think the kills being possible with only one or two attacks make day phases even more volatile for players in different time zones than regular Mafia games. Damage + health being secret also mean that the moderator is required almost constantly to watch over actions. In a regular mafia game, the players can see a majority, will know when voting has reached its conclusion and can wait for the night phase to be officially started.

I really appreciate all the work and thought you put into this game, Satel. There's a lot of interesting and fun elements, but I'm not sure it's suited to this medium.

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Pkdragon » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:46 am

I think with some major tweaking it absolutely could be fixed to be suitable for this medium, but I too am in the camp that says "we're playing mafia not pokemon".

Honestly I think a standard length voting phase, or at least a voting phase lasting until everyone casts a vote, is a good idea, because yeah, the differences between time zones was pretty clear.

again i really do think it's best to consider this a playtest. game was complicated as hell- it was a legit game, and that's awesome. but as we saw, it's easy for balance issues to arise in a game with as many variables, numerical and otherwise. Personally I think mafia being able to basically win with one cast of "explosion" was actually the biggest. If it wasn't for me and sven destroying the morale of mafia and gamemaster alike, town actually would have had no way to win, provided the mafia realized what an "I-win" button they had, which they probably would have once it became clear how big the damage numbers were. but it's really, really hard to catch onto stuff like that without actually playtesting. my only regret is that we didn't play it out a little longer for the sake of testing the game to it's extreme.

but satel, i don't want you to be discouraged by all this- the game you created had real meat, and i honestly do respect that. now it's time to take the feedback you've gotten and refine that meat into something truly worth devouring... or something like that, lol.
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Linkman » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:52 pm

Hear hear!
"everytime I try to draw xen I end up drawing a kangaroo smoking a cigar while chainsawing a tree" - Deoxy
"I can't believe I'm the only person who voted Stallone. His appeal lies in watching is movies again and again just to hear what the hell he's talking about." - Kilteh

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:56 pm

well 20% from all of this made me realize...

with the damage divided by the square root of the number of players and attacks being locked on cast, this works pretty nicely then. the situation explained above still makes blissey look relatively vulnerable physically, so yeah, i think i'll go with that.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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HPD
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by HPD » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:08 am

I don't really see the justification for using a square root, though. A linear relation seems easier to grasp as a player.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Airnike
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Airnike » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:17 am

Sees square root.

Way too complicated bro.
MysteriousLad be like:
Oh hello, I am MysteriousLad.
Do you know when I was an OP player? When I wasn't in WWN and massclaims were legit good? Yea I miss the days I could force town to claim, rout out the mafia, and win the game for free day 3. Sometimes without being killed!
Senpai HPD notices me everyday when I'm town, do no scum play, and still get lynched day 1.
Anyway, it's time to go and ask people to claim and go lynch those who don't with my high-skill OP role.
I am MysteriousLad.

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:25 am

I put in square root because it just scales it down nicer with the number of players, as long as it isn't too high.

Adaptability ftw.
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Satel

Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Satel » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:48 am

Dragonite wrote:could you reveal the EV's picked in this game satel?
I forgot to page the entire data before deleting it, but here it is as far as i recall

q went full defenses, as did hpd, lad, terr and alecat
K went 50/50 for defenses and 100 spa
pk, dragonite and kir were full glass cannon
hawkes went 60 def, 100 spa and 40 spd
airnike and sven went atk/spd
linky went spa/spd
god went 50 everywhere
Joey wrote:i think i was mad at certain players and wanted to wave st3rn's success in their face at the most opportune moment, or something

st3rn fudge st3rn

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Dragonite
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Re: POKéMAF: Gotta kill'em all! - GAME ENDED

Post by Dragonite » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:12 am

EV's are mostly wildcard without any prior information. I rather keep items in then EV's(but with items, nerf or ditch those which make offenses go out of control)

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