Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

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ThunderWalker
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Location: Netherlands

Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:34 am

Here it is, the grand preliminary thread of the Naval War RP. No subscriptions yet; in this thread we talk about the political, military and scientific timeline of the alternate history, as well that we make drafts for the persons in charge here, varying from kings to admirals, from generals to prime ministers. Partaking in this discussion or even designing an admiral doesn't mean you have to partake in the RP itself.

Political History

It is 1815. The Congress of Vienna happens and happened, but it went differently. Ambassadors had different priorities, and as such, Europe was redrawn.

Prussia would not get territory on the east bank of the Rhine, Italy was united and most of the German states were not sacrificed to feed the greed of the bigger countries.
Talking about the German States, with the Holy Roman Empire being disbanded, it was now replaced with a Council of Kings, in which all the kings of the German countries could talk together, and they would meet every few months. Essentially, turning Germany into a loose federation with Prussia at the head, at least for now.
France gets to keep Wallonia, the Netherlands still get Flanders.

This has several historical implications, most notably that it will kill the roots of nationalism in both Germany and Italy, effectively preventing the war of 1870 between Prussia and France, and with that, the First World War, which in turn allows both Hitler and Mussolini to remain insiginificant).

These changes being made, in 1832, the Russian Tsar is sick of keeping a huge garrison in Poland to quell the civil war and unrest. That costs money that can be better spent elsewhere. And as such, Poland becomes succesfully independent. It has trouble standing on its own feet, but with help from Austria-Hungary, Sweden and Prussia they would succeed. The port at Danzig is shared between the new Poland and Prussia, as the king of Prussia realizing Poland needs a harbor and also to frustrate the Russian Tsar a bit more.

The Netherlands, being a country suffering from extreme poverty after Napoleon's troops left, attempts (and fails) to reach their former glory, but they intensify trade with their colonies and build their relationship on a more even footing while also industrializing the Netherlands themselves. This allows them to crawl out of the poverty that broke the back of the country, but they remain only a shadow of their former glory.
They won't face a civil war in 1830, at any rate, so Flanders remains with Netherlands.

Greece becomes independent in 1830.

In 1848, France, Great Britain and the Netherlands face unrest and become democratic states. Austria-Hungary is brewing and would keep to do so for the continuing decades, but the King remains ruling firmly. However, in 1852, the King of Austria lowers the taxes to quell the unrest.

In 1853-1856, the Crimean War takes place and ends no different.

In 1870; The Prussian chancelor, Bismarck sways the Council of Kings to accept a loss of individual power in exchange for a greater power when the Council decides. Prussia becomes the leader state of the German Confederation.

In 1888, Prussia and Poland defeat Russia in a few border skirmishes, but diplomatic intervention from Sweden prevents it from getting out of hand. Russians still feel as if their pride has been wounded, though.

In 1904-1905, the Russian-Japanese war still ends with Tsushima and a horrible Russian defeat.

In 1910, Frans Ferdinand, the Austrian heir to the throne, wants to unite his country. To do that, he first needs to deal with the nationalism within his own country. He asks the other parts of Austria-Hungary to send representatives. By the time it is 1915, the country was disbanded and formed a democratic Federation in its place, consisting of Austria, Hungary, Kroatia, Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia. It took another few years to work out the creases but the solution was both workable and effective.
After this, this prince decided to work on his grand dream, unifying Europe.

The German Confederation quickly follows the above example, and becomes an oddball democracy as well, but with much more power kept by the Council of Kings.

There is a failed, shortlived attempt to overthrow the Tsar in 1917. It ends in horrible failure and Lenin gets executed by firing squad. (Part of the reason it succeeded, was the tremendous burden World War I placed upon Russia).The Russian population remains an unhappy bunch as it is, though, demoralized by a few lost wars and a failed coup.
In 1920, after a devastating famine, the Tsar, Nicholas II, commits suicide. His daughter takes over.

In 1932, Franz Ferdinand hosts the European War Games; a series of festivities that celebrate the century of peace after the Polish War of Independence. Soldiers from each country face each other in war games, with tons of rubber bullets and paint balls. Military operations are actually planned out and acted upon, and valuable lessons are learned.

Eastern Asia:
The Japanese Isolation does not end in 1854. The United States attempts to force them to, but their fleet now gets intercepted by Dutch merchants, which consider it counterproductive as they know the Japanese sentiments about this. However, despite the Isolation not formally ending, Japan allows foreigners from the designated trade countries (China, Korea and the Netherlands) to travel freely through their country... and the opposite also happens, the Japanese citizens traveling more abroad.

Japan feels the need to greatly intensify their trade and to open up the possibilities to modernize as they expect the USA to wage a war with them sooner or later, and open up an embassy in the Netherlands, where they also happen to keep tabs on the happenings in Europe and the USA. In the 1870s, Japan asks and gains blueprints for steam engines and other machinery to finally industrialize their country, improving and working with their only European allies to date.
The Japanese also visit Great Britain and Prussia under Dutch flag, and finally decide to reconstruct their army to modern standards and make preperations to open the gates (and end the Isolation to a degree). A few local lords disagree with this, but the Emperor quickly sends his new army after them to put them down.
Japan proceeds to rapidly modernize as they import more and more knowledge from Europe, and lifts more and more of the Isolation laws until it is almost completely gone in the 1920s.

The European countries, in the early 20th century, realize they have been taking profit too much from the colonies, and want to return the favor, building large amounts of factories and similar facilities in Asia, essentially industrializing their colonies as well.

Australia becomes an independent country in 1910, while the Dutch East Indies are allowed to govern themselves in 1928, only remaining formally part of the Netherlands. India follows suit in 1931, also only remaining formally a part of the British Empire.


USA:
The American Civil War still happens, but Abraham Lincoln is not murdered, the events in Europe leading the would-be murderer to live his life elsewhere. Lincoln manages to do what his successors in the real world did not, and forces the USA to look to the future, partially after the European example, with no major wars after 1815 and the cultural and racial differences set aside.
In the 1870s, the USA expands its horizon and forms its own oversees empire, with large colonies in both Africa (like Congo) and Asia (Phillipines). They are not satisfied even now, but they don't feel ready to take on European countries yet, so they challenge the Empire of the Rising Sun in the hope to colonize them - an attempt that meets nothing but failure.

America rose to the riches, being by far the strongest country in the world in the late 1920s. The general sentiment was one of not being given a fair share during the period of colonisation, even if most colonies did not change hands for a century anymore if not longer, and European countries were giving their colonies increasing amounts of independence, which the Americans took as a sign of weakness.

In 1947, they finally go to war, literally declaring war on the rest of the world except for Russia and China.

War preperations:

By now, Europe realized they would be together in the upcoming great war, as well as that most of it would be decided at sea. Land battles would certainly take place but not until the very end or to defend colonies in Africa.
The Europena countries (bar Russia), and Japan, generally use the same unified armanament for logistic purposes.

Land Forces

Due to the nature of the conflict, they will meet only rarely, mostly in Africa.

Allies:
Foot soldiers mostly. Horses are phased out and replaced by large amounts of motorized vehicles, more than enough to support the massive army they can bring to the field (five million soldiers in total). However, most of the vehicles are unarmed, though there are a few wheeled vehicles equipped with 57mm cannons and the War Games led to the development of a few halftracks, with the Sd Kfz 251 being mass-produced. Another semicommon usage is a halftrack equipped with the Swedish 40 mm Bofors anti-air gun or a multibarreled 20mm Oerlikon mount. There are a few fully tracked vehicles as well, some even with a gun, but these generally lack a turret or are equipped with AA mounts as well.
However, in the Empire of the Rising Sun a few 'true' tanks have been made, but the number is very, very small, and the other allied countries have yet to work on them. The German Blitzkrieg will not be invented, at least not now

Vehicle list:
Trucks are used for transporting soldiers and supplies far behind the lines. If the front lines are closer, halftracks are preferred.
Daimler 4×4: British vehicle, carrying usually a turreted 57mm cannon.
Vickers Universal Carrier: A small tracked vehicle with little to low armor, which comes equipped with a fixed 57mm cannon, or a single Bofors or an Oerlikon quad-mount on unarmoured turrets.
Wespe: A tracked vehicle developed by both France and Prussia, carrying a 152mm naval cannon. Built in small numbers.
Sd Kfz 251: After numerous prototypes and older versions since the 1920s, this vehicle tipped the scale in favor of vehicles opposed to horses, and it was quickly put in mass production in the late 1930s in Germany, and in license in most other European countries. Normally used to transport one or two squads of infantry. Sometimes also serves as a mount for a twin-barreled Oerlikon or a Bofors.
Elephant: Dutch-Prussian developed heavy tracked vehicle, basically a motorized gun platform. Carries the heavy Prussian 88mm/L71 cannon, which can be elevated up to 80 degrees and it can be used against both air and ground targets. However, the vehicle has no armour and is fairly unwieldy as it needs to 'unpack' to open fire and 'pack up' to move again. Built in small numbers in three factories, one in the Netherlands, one in Prussia and another on Sakhalin, the island that Japan obtained from Russia after the war of 1904-1905.
Type 4: Small Japanese tracked vehicle, equipped with a 57mm cannon in a turret, similar to the Daimler. Closest thing to a tank, though its armor is very light and protects only against light weapons, but it is fairly fast at 45km/h on roads, a major improvement over the preceding Type 2.
The number suggests there have been several tanks designed before it, but the Type 4 is the only one that has a small factory dedicated to the production of them. The Type 1 and 3 only have a proto-type and the Type 2 has been built in very small (10-ish) numbers, but these have all been put into museums for being obsolete.



Americans
Similar as the allies. Seven million foot soldiers, and some vehicles for transport.
The .5 inch M2 Browning is their bread-and-butter machinegun, which has a lower caliber but is also much more manageable than the somewhat unwieldy Oerlikon the Europeans use.
Tracked vehicles have been considered useless by the Americans, but they too did not go to war since they conquered Mexico a few decades ago. This being said, while they trained more, there was no true rivalry between varying "armies" to do better unlike in Europe, so they do not use many wheeled or tracked vehicles designed for front-line use, still prefering horses.

Vehicles:
Jeep
Truck
Jeeps for officers, trucks for infantry transport. They use a massive number of these. Some trucks are used as motorized gun platforms too, but they prefer horses to tow guns.

The Navies

The Empire of the Rising Sun, and the Netherlands, feeling behind in army development, took lessons from the War Games, and together built a new class of four Battleships, sharing the development costs between the countries; which carry 8 14-inch guns devided across three turrets (3+2 in front, and 3 behind, and carry heavy armor (the citadel withstanding heavier caliber than their own main battery) and serious anti-aircraft armanament. The ships are called Yamato, Mushashi, De Ruyter and Eendracht. They are fairly similar to the Italian Littorio class, and rudely it could be stated that they exchanged one gun in exchange for a few knots in speed.
Note: This indeed means the 70,000 ton WW II monsters of that Yamato-class are not built; without the imperialism and a lot of likely allies that ship design philosophy is obsolete
They also built a class based on the myth of the Flying Dutchman - a class of battlecruisers armed with 9 11-inch cannons, relatively light armor - just enough protect against cruisers - but extensive protection versus aircraft-dropped ordnance. A massive AA suite and very fast too, turned these into the last line of defence for Aircraft Carriers. Their armanament is further complemented by six torpedo tubes, three on each side, containing the deadly Type 93 Long Lance torpedoes.
The reason for Carrier-based navies is very different than from what happened in the real world though; there was no slow development from battleships onwards - most countries had to rebuild their navies from scratch as they prepared for war, since they had little navy to begin with - as stated before, Europe did not know any real war for more than a century, but technology obviously advanced and planes would have been developed without war as well.

Note that, if you work with ships in your half of the story (which you likely will at one point or another) many interwar ship designs were affected by oddball Navy Treaties, which are not present in this story. But other classes are likely present or you can draw your inspiration from those. Note that many ships (all British interbellum-built warships, for example) were built with the Treaty in mind.
Another note is that most European navies - not used to war - were built from scratch, without any experience with battleships. Sure, the Dreadnought-phase had been there and some battleships have been built, but the number is minor. Much like with the Japanese navy as well as the USA navy post Pearl Harbour, combined with the fact that there is a massive ocean seperating the adversaries, there was more than enough of a reason to focus around Aircraft Carriers instead, their great range being very advantageous. Battleships however, are not counted out as nobody knows how many surface engagements will take place, and how effective the anti-air defences of ships are. This lead to various classes having fairly mediocre AA (mostly British, French, Italian and American ships) and other classes having extremely heavy AA (Japanese, Dutch and German ships). However, if a ship gets heavily damaged but not sunk, it will have to return to port for a refit. If carrier raids have taken place at that point, more AA will be fitted.


Great Britain:
Aircraft Carriers: 4; none of them exactly the same and 1 of them is under construction
Battleships: 5 King George V-class (note: 3×3 15-inch turrets instead), 2 Queen Elizabeth-class
Battlecruisers: 2 Repulse class
Heavy cruisers: 13 of various classes
Light cruisers: 20 of various classes
Destroyers: 65 of various classes

Imperial Japanese Navy:
Aircraft Carrier: 6 of Zuikaku-class, 2 Taiho-class (of which 1 under construction)
Battleship: 2 Yamato-class, 4 Kongo-class
Battlecruiser: 3 Vliegende Hollander-class (of which 1 is under construction)
Heavy cruisers: 8 of various classes
Light cruisers: 19 of various classes
Destroyers: 37 of various classes
Has submarines as well.

Netherlands
Aircraft Carrier: 4 of Zuikaku-class
Battleship: 2 Yamato-class (as aforementioned)
Battlecruiser: 2 Vliegende Hollander-class
Light cruisers: 6 Tromp-class, 2 Zeven Provinciën-class
Destroyers: 25 of various classes
Has a few submarines as well

Italy:
Battleships: 3 Littorio-Class (of which 1 under construction)
Heavy cruisers: 7 of various classes
Light cruisers: 9 of various classes
Destroyers: 21 of various classes

France:
Aircraft Carriers: 1 unique
Battleships: 2 Littorio-class
Light cruisers: 12 of various classes
Destroyers: 20 of various classes

Prussia:
Aircraft Carrier: 2 Graf Zeppelin-class
Battleship: 2 Bismarck-class, 1 modernized old battleship of the König-class, with the center turret replaced with a large anti-air suite)
Battlecruiser: 2 Scharnhorst-class
Heavy cruiser: 5 of Admiral Hipper-class
Destroyers: 24 of various classes
Has U-boats, but only a few.


Norway:
Destroyers: A single class of 10.

Total:
Aircraft Carriers: 17 (and 2 under construction)
Battleships: 21 (and 2 under construction)
Battlecruiser: 8 (and 1 under construction)
Heavy cruiser: 33, and about a dozen under construction
Light cruiser: 62, and a about a dozen under construction
Destroyers: 100+, and more will be built throughout the war.


Doctrine:
Carrier attack groups, escorted by a battleship and a ring of cruisers and destroyers.
Submarines attack in groups or patrol alone.


United States:
Aircraft Carrier: 2 of Lexington-class, 6 of Yorktown-class, 18 Essex-class
Battleship: 41 of various classes, but a solid number of them are heavily outdated and would sink rather quickly in an encounter with a modern battleship or even battlecruiser.
Battlecruiser: 4 Atlanta-class
Heavy cruisers: 40 of various classes
Light Cruisers: 90 of various classes
Destroyers: too many
Has submarines


Both sides will build 10% of this number of non-capital ships in a year. The capital ships mentioned under construction will take up to a year to finish. If a Destroyer has to be refitted (due to heavy damage) it will take three months, if a cruiser, it will take six months, if anything bigger (BC/BB/CV) it will take nine months.

A month ingame will be a week IRL.


Weapon calibers; mounted on X and purpose

Allies:
7,7mm; anti-air on planes, versus infantry on ground
12,7mm Hotchkiss MG, basic anti-air MG
20 mm (Oerlikon); vehicles, planes, ships - anti-air, anti-infantry
40mm (Bofors); vehicles, ship - anti-air
57mm cannon; vehicles, anti-ground (HE shells)
76mm; vehicles, anti-ground (HE shells)
88mm/L56 (Flak) / 88mm L71 (Flak); anti-air on land
120mm; dual-purpose on ships
152 mm (6-inch) ships, artillery
203 mm (8-inch) ships
283 mm (11-inch) ships
356 mm (14-inch) ships
381 mm (15-inch) ships

Americans:
7,7mm; anti-air on planes, versus infantry on ground
12,7 mm (M2 Browning); vehicles, planes, ships - anti-air, anti-infantry
28mm; ships - anti-air
76mm; dual-purpose on ships
127mm; dual-purpose on ships
152 mm (6-inch) ships (vs other ships, same for calibers below)
203 mm (8-inch) ships
356 mm (14-inch) ships
406 mm (16-inch) ships



Large and In Charge

Excuse me for the title of the second part of this post, but I couldn't resist.

A first note: You can partake in this thread without in the actual RP itself, or the other way around. In this thread, we design the secondary characters we won't use as our personal main characters, but these that do drive the story behind it and will be used in the Strategy Thread.

This thread is for both submissions as well as discussing previous submissions.


Format:

Character name
Nationality
Gender (Male, Female)
Position (high-ranked officers of Land, Navy and Air, President, Prime Minister, Minister of War, etc; no officers ranked Colonel (Captain in the navy) or lower please, there'd be too many of these), or any politician that isn't King, Queen, minister, president, or leader of a political party.

History: Did this person fight in a previous war or skirmish? Where did he train at, which tactics and strategies does he excel with? Or is he unfamiliar with war in its entirity?

Looks (might prove irrelevant throughout the story, but a consensus before the story starts is necessary in case one of us ends up meeting him as well as the ending scéne).


Stance regarding to war: Does he like war, does he despise it, how did he react prior to the war.
General charactrestics of his behaviour: Quick to anger, or nice and friendly? Or an awkward mixture of both? Is he adamant and brave, or is he a coward?

Behaviour regarding to battle (for military officers only): Is he an aggressive commander? does he prefer to preserve his fleet units at all costs (Ironically this can be just as fatal as the former, Lutjens being a prime example) ? Which character flaws does he have? Is he actually competent or did he gain his rank through nobility, or even both?
Is he cautious? Does he commit suicide (or go down with the ship) if the battle is lost?
Field of experience?

And other notable things about him, that may or may not affect the war's outcome?

-------------------------------

There are many questions to be answered in this thread, and the RP is starting to have a really odd feel to it. I am pretty sure I've overlooked more than just a few things, so feel free to mention things and ask questions!

Another notable question is: Do you think that Russia, led by a female Tsar, would join the war (alongside the USA) or remain neutral? As it is, the sides are pretty balanced (USA versus the "European Union" and Japan). China remains neutral as the Japanese left it untouched.

Notes: For entering your own character, as well as the rules, another thread will be made in the future.
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Linkman
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Linkman » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:41 am

You like your history don'tcha.

I actually read all of that. Fun stuff.
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kiwi

Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by kiwi » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:16 am

omgs how many books do I have to read for these things?

jk will look later!

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Narts
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Narts » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:51 pm

I'm general apathy and I command the armies of who gives a fudge
Last edited by Narts on Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MysteriousLad
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by MysteriousLad » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:52 pm

Wrong thread narts
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Narts
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Narts » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:53 pm

I guess I need my morning coffee

ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:53 pm

Glad to see some response already, even if a drunk Narts is amongst those. :P


There are a few things that need adjustment if Russia joins the war though, so I'd like some opinions on that ASAP (Russia + USA, which would mean a lot of land battles in Eastern Europe, or the USA alone, which means the combatants are mostly seperated by the Atlantic and Pacific).

@Kiwi: I read over thirty books about various subjects which will all return in this RP, varying from tanks and warships to the Industrial Revolution, and grand strategy to the Congress of Vienna.

A certain knowledge of history will certainly be useful once the RP starts, or even when designing admirals/generals as there are so many very notorious blunders been made in the past few centuries (varying from Pierre Villeneuve's arrogance at Trafalgar (personal flaw), to Hitler's declaration of war on the USA (grand strategy), to Nagumo's cautiousness at Midway (personality flaw attained thanks to a strategical loss in the Battle of the Coral Sea), and the general tendency of competent admirals/captains to go down with their ship. (Funnily, the less competent they are, the less likely they are to go down with their ship).
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ThunderWalker
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:42 pm

Since there are no submissions as of yet, nor is my last question been discussed, (*sigh*, there are literally hundreds of officers and politicians involved in a large-scaled war), I'll submit an example myself to make things more interested.

This general is an old character of mine, an American Brigadier General originally intended for an entirely different project for school. However, I never used him in a story. However, as that project developed, this officer's quirks developed more and more, and it is a waste to not to use him. I'm also pretty sure Narts will like him. :lol:


Name: Jack Morrison
Gender: Male
Nationality: American
Rank: Brigadier General

Looks: A balding man aged in his late fifties or early sixties, he's of an average built. He's physically fit. Usually wearing his uniform.

History: Graduated as a petty officer shortly after the war against Mexico ended in 1910. Fought against guerillas in the mountains, where he was renowned for his tactical skill. His strategical skill left something to be desired.
He ranked up slower than many others with similar skill, mostly because of his arrogance and the aforementioned tendency to make strategic errors, but eventually he made it to the rank of Brigadier General nonetheless. However, many generals quipped behind his back that was more because his 'fame' than anything else, being one of the most well-known officers of the American army.

He wasn't famous for his military skills - but because his private life is filled with scandals and skeletons in the closet. It is a public secret he's gay and a travestite. Posing in a dress made him a worldwide laughing stock, and some consider it a wonder he isn't demoted yet. Being well-known - and even somewhat likeable in his own strange way - is a good protection.

Character: An arrogant jackass, but 'full of life'. He hams it up quite a bit. Is a strong believer in that the USA are superior to other countries on the planet (race is a non-factor because most Americans have been immigrants a few centuries ago).

Behaviour in Battle: He is aggressive but a great tactician, generally winning small-scale battles. Well aware of his strategic flaw despite his arrogance, he prefers to engage in short lasting campaigns and leave his staff officers to cover his flaws. Despite that, if the campaign lasts longer than planned - which is often the case - his strategic mistakes tend to cost him deerly in lasting campaigns and holds him back from promoting to a full General. Guerilla tactics are also highly effective against him as his aggression and his arrogance - especially combined - can cause him to walk into a trap blindly.

Stance about war: He believes that the Americans will win any war as the superior state with the best industry. However, he does not like war, since he prefers to live his private scandal-filled life as it is. He prefers to attend a gay orgy instead of a conference prior to a battle, that is one thing for certain...
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ThunderWalker
Rank: Elf
Location: Netherlands

Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:58 am

Guys, how can I get this RP started if we don't have at least 20-30 officers for each side up and running?
Let's just look at the staff meeting Yamamoto had organized before Midway.



Maybe this will spark some more interest; The aircraft. I will edit this post later on if I get more aircraft in the list (French aircraft and German aircraft are still missing), and the scout planes are still absent from this list as well. Most of them are aircraft we all know from the 2nd World War and early postwar. Some experimental shenanigans also, especially from Prussia and that... thing. Needed something awkward because attack helicopters don't exist yet, and the Pinguin is the sucky version of one.

Note: All guns are forward-facing unless stated otherwise. Guns are generally wing-mounted, if an odd number there's likely one hiding in the nose.
Note 2: Year of Introduction isn't exactly the same as it was IRL because reasons. I will likely shake up this post a fair bit, but this has to do for now.

Without further ado, the aircraft!

Allied Aircraft:


Land-based Fighters

- Messerschmitt Bf 109 (Prussia)
Speed: 650 km/h
Armanament: 3 × 30mm cannon
Bombs: 1× 250kg bomb
Year of Introduction: 1941

The mainstay of the Prussian airforce. A single-seat aircraft, and the fastest European land-based aircraft. Even the Japanese use it for their land-based duties, the 'Zeke' being too fragile.
Recently all versions have been upgunned to their current layout of a 30mm cannon in each wing and another 30mm cannon mounted in the nose.
Its sheer firepower is the only reason it has not been phased out of service yet, even if only the Prussian ground-based air force still uses it.

- Mitsubishi-Fokker Dragonfly (Empire of the Rising Sun / Netherlands)
Speed: 750 km/h
Armanament: 2× 20mm cannons (in fuselage), 4× 7,7mm machineguns (in wings).
Bombs: 1× 250 kg bomb in internal bay
Year of Introduction: 1945

Joint-developed by both Nakajima and Fokker and now mass-produced by various countries, this new single-seat fighter is not too different from its predecessors (the A6M Zero and the Fokker D.XXII), but it is much more rugged as well as being faster.
Has a long operational range on cruise speed, as it has various tasks (carrier scout, patrolling the vast seas in the Western Pacific) that require it.
Widely used as both a ground- and carrier aircraft by both the Imperial army as well as the Dutch army.

- Fokker Pinguin (Netherlands)
Speed: 800 km/h
Armanament: 4× 20mm cannon (one in each wing).
Year of Introduction: 1946

One of the most bizarre planes ever built, propelled by the same engine as the Gloster Meteor (however, just one instead of two) attached to a turboprop, and landing and taking off vertically. When on the ground, it rests on its four wings.
Can land on a pair of adjacent parking spots even with its small size.
This aircraft is not very agile, has no way to carry bombs and is vulnerable while landing, but the fact it does not need an airfield to take off or land is still a major advantage.
It was designed with taking off and landing on ships in mind, but after a few incidents that weren't lethal only by sheer luck it was advised to not land on a moving vessel. Ever.


- Gloster Meteor (United Kingdom)
Speed: 950 km/h
Armanament: 4× 20mm cannon
Year of Introduction: 1946

The only jet-engined fighter in service world-wide (the Pinguin is a turboprop) and just gotten out of testing, but its production has been rushed in the hope to get an advantage in the arms race, quickly replacing all the land-based Spitfires in the British air force as soon as possible.
It is capable of carrying bombs, but at the cost of range and agility and therefore, usually does not.


- Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet (Prussia)
Speed: 900 km/h
Armanament: 4× 30mm cannon
Year of Introduction: 1945

Rocket-propelled aircraft. During development, it carried a highly unstable fuel mix that was very dangerous, but in January 1947 the aircraft switched to a much safer mixture, actually allowing these fighters to be used somewhat reliably.
They do have a few massive flaws though, lacking any operational range and being hard to control, but they are very adept at hunting down bombers if the war takes a turn for the worst. They also do not require large airfields to take off (to land, however, they do).


Land-based Ground Attack Aircraft / Dive Bombers

- Junkers 87 'Stuka' (Prussia)
Speed: 400 km/h
Armanament: 2× 7,7mm machinegun (one facing forwards, one faced towards the rear)
Bombs: 1 bomb of 250 kg and four bombs of 50 kg (or four rockets).
Year of Introduction: 1938

Aging dive bomber, if not already obsolete. However, despite its age, it is very reliable and does its job nicely. However, it has one major flaw; in order to do its job, the Stuka absolutely requires air superiority if it doesn't want to be used as target practice for opposing fighter aircraft (and even many bombers).


- Horten Ho 229 (Prussia)
Speed: 1000 km/h
Armanament: 2× 30mm cannon
Bombs: 2× 500kg (internal) or 1 torpedo
Year of Introduction: 1947

The newest German bomber, designed to complement the current allied bombing wings. This Flying-Wing aircraft is propelled by jet engines and outspeeds any fighter as of yet. Only small numbers have been built as of yet.


- Hawker Hurricane MK XIII (United Kingdom)
Speed: 550 km/h
Armanament: 2× 40mm Vickers cannons, 2× 7,7mm machineguns
Bombs: up to 800 kg bombs or even a torpedo
Year of Introduction: 1936 (MK I), 1945 (MK XIII).

A fighter that became obsolete in its role, but adapted because there were still so many in storage and scrapping them would simply be too uneconomical. It now performs its duties as a close support aircraft for the United Kingdom, France and Norway. Despite being obsolete in their original role, they are still capable of fending off strategic bombers, which provide large enough targets for the powerful 40mm cannons.
There is also a Carrier version of this aircraft.


- Aichi D3A 'Val' (Empire of the Rising Sun)
Speed: 400 km/h
Armanament: 5 × 7,7 mm machineguns (4 in wings, one in rear turret)
Bombs: 1 × 250kg bomb
Year of introduction: 1944 (updated version)

Originally used on the Aircraft Carriers, they have been phased out of carrier combat as they were replaced by the faster and more modern Judy. However, the 'Val' was not entirely phased out, as a modernized version was produced for the female division of the Imperial Airforce, guarding the home islands, the harbor in Rabaul, and the Marianas.


- Fokker G3 (Netherlands)
Speed: 650 km/h
Armanament: 4× 20mm cannon in nose, 6 × 7,7mm machineguns in turrets, dorsal positions).
Bombs: Up to 1600 kg bombs or 2 torpedoes; can skip-bomb as well.
Year of Introduction: 1946

The new Dutch twin-engine bomber, and while it is classed as a support aircraft for ground troops like its much smaller counterparts (the Hurricane and the Stuka), it cannot be compared in any way.
Its predecessors were twin-engined heavy fighters, but during the development stage of this new plane it was revealed that it could carry enough bombs to be reclassified as light bomber.
The closest comparison would be probably the American B-25 Mitchell, but even then there's a fair share of differences.


Land-based strategic bombers

- Focke Wulf 200b Condor (Prussia)
Speed: 380 km/h
Armanament: 1× 20mm cannon in gondola, 4 × 12,7mm machinegun in dorsal positions).
Bombs: Up to 5400 kg bombs
Year of Introduction: 1937 (200), 1943 (200b)

The aging Prussian bomber, and it would have been obsolete if it wasn't for its ability to carry radar and very long operational range that the contemporary British bombers are lacking. More recently, its old engines have been updated with more efficient engines, that allow it to maintain an even longer operational range as well as a slightly higher cruising speed.

- Handley Page Halifax (United Kingdom)
Speed: 450 km/h
Armanament: 9× 7,7mm machineguns (1 in nose, 4 in tail turret, 4 in dorsal turret)
Bombs: Up to 5800 kg bombs
Year of Introduction: 1941


- Avro Lancaster (United Kingdom)
Speed: 450 km/h
Armanament: 10× 7,7mm machineguns (2 in nose turret, 4 in tail turret, 2 in upper turret)
Bombs: Up to 10.000 kg bombs
Year of Introduction: 1944


Carrier-based Fighters

- Supermarine Seafire II (United Kingdom)

Speed: 600 km/h
Armanament: 8× 7,7mm machineguns
Year of Introduction: 1939

An aircraft produced in large numbers, but its land-phased cousin has been phased out in favour of the Gloster Meteor. Its upgraded version is still used for the Navy however, even if there are serious concerns about its lack of firepower.

- Hawker Hurricane (United Kingdom)
see above

- Mitsubishi-Fokker Dragonfly (Empire of the Rising Sun / Netherlands)
see above

Carrier-based Dive Bombers

- Blackburn Firecrest
Speed: 620 km/h
Armanament: 4× 20mm cannons
Bombs: 2 × 1000kg bomb
Year of introduction: 1946

The newest British aircraft, fast and carrying a heavy bomb. Probably the most devastating addition to the European-Japanese strike force, as it can carry a heavy payload and achieve high speeds.
It has only been recently introduced though.

- Aichi D4A 'Judy' (Empire of the Rising Sun)
Speed: 510 km/h
Armanament: 3× 7,7mm machinegun (2 in wings, 1 in turret facing rearwards)
Bombs: 1 × 250kg bomb
Year of introduction: 1942

Replacing the 'Val' Dive Bomber, but suffering from many of the same flaws, mostly not being capable of carrying sufficient payload. The Imperial Japanese Navy has been looking for a replacement but despite everything has been out of luck.
It does hoever have one major advantage; it is much more agile. Also note it is faster than the American Helldiver.

- Fokker Griffon Mk III (Netherlands)
Speed: 780 km/h
Armanament: 7× 7,7mm machinegun (4 in wings, 1 in fuselage, 2 in turret facing rearwards)
Bombs: 1× 500kg bomb
Year of introduction: 1944

Fast dive bomber. A part of it has been developed thanks to spies in American aircraft factories but afterwards they greatly improved upon it, allowing the Griffon to be one of the best strike aircraft on Aircraft Carriers at this very moment.
Its original plans consisted of the design containing 20mm cannons, but that was deemed too expensive. Even 12,7mm machineguns were considered a no-no by the Dutch government.
It is probably overall a worse aircraft than the newer Blackburn Firecrest, but it is a good bit faster which works well with the overall faster Dutch air wings. It actually even outspeeds the Dragonfly in level flight or dives.

Carrier-based Torpedo Planes

- Nakajima B6N 'Jill' (Empire of the Rising Sun)
Speed: 490 km/h
Armanament: 3× 7,7mm machinegun (2 in wings, 1 in turret facing rearwards)
Bombs: 1 × torpedo or 800kg bomb
Year of introduction: 1944

Replacing the aging 'Kate' torpedo bombers, which were unable to keep up with the other aircraft of a carrier airgroup.

- Fairey Swordfish (United Kingdom)
Speed: 200 km/h
Armanament: 2× 12,7mm mg in twin turret, facing to the rear.
Bombs: 1 × torpedo or 1000 kg bomb
Year of Introduction: 1935

Slow, but agile and rugged. One of the few biplanes still in service. Does not work well in a full-fledged carrier battle though, being far too slow, but it is much more capable of attacking when air superiority has already been achieved. One of the few planes actively carrying radar.

- Fairey Spearfish
Speed: 470 km/h
Armanament: 4× 12,7mm machineguns (two in the wings and two in a turret facing to the rear)
Bombs: 1 × torpedo or 1000 kg bomb
Year of Introduction: 1945

The much more modern version of the Swordfish. A monoplane, much faster but lacking the capability of the Swordfish to carry radar and reliably use it.


United States Aircraft:

Fighters

Mustang

Speed: 700 km/h
Armanament: 6× 12,7mm Browning HMGs
Year of introduction: 1943

Land based fighter with a massive operational range, easily twice as much as any other fighter bar the Dragonfly. Can carry bombs but rarely does as they cut into its operational range greatly.

Thunderbolt
Speed: 740 km/h
Armanament: 8× 12,7mm Browning HMGs
Bombs: up to 1000 kg
Year of introduction: 1944

A fairly ugly aircraft, looking very clumsy and crude but it is heavily armoured and a true juggernaut in the air. Probably the best fighter available to any country right now, its main flaw that it cannot be used on Aircraft Carriers.
The main reason it isn't the king of the skies is the Gloster Meteor, which can easily hunt it, or the Messerschmitt Komet that can stop it from fulfilling its attacking duties easily.

Bombers:

- B-17 Flying Fortress.
Speed: 440 km/h
Armanament: 13 × 12,7mm machineguns (scattered everywhere).
Bombs: Varying from 2400 kg (long-range missions) to 8000 kg (short-range missions).
Year of Introduction: 1941

The Flying Fortress! We all know what it does. Bomb stuff. It is good at it, however, do not try to bomb ships with it. It does not work.


- B-25 Mitchell
Speed: 440 km/h
Armanament: 18 × 12,7mm machineguns (scattered everywhere in twin mounts).
Bombs: Up to 3000 kg bombs (wants to carry less bombs if it is going to utilize the skip bombing technique, though).
Year of Introduction: 1941

The American medium bomber. It has a long range and has enough machineguns everywhere to easily defend itself. Some versions are equipped with a 75mm cannon to tear into ships.

Carrier-based Fighters

- Grumman F8F Bearcat
Speed: 730 km/h
Armanament: 4× 20mm cannon
Bombs: 1 × 500kg bomb
Year of Introduction: 1945

Replacing the F6F Hellcat, the new fighter was much faster and better armed. Does not have any obvious strengths or flaws like many of the American planes. Biggest downside is probably that it cannot carry as many bombs as the Corsair.


- Vought F4U Corsair
Speed: 720 km/h
Armanament: 6× 12,7mm Browning HMGs
Bombs: 2 × 1000kg bomb or 4× 500kg bombs
Year of Introduction: 1943

Technically a fighter, but it can carry a pair of heavy bombs easily with its huge engine power, despite that means it has to sacrifice operational range.


Dive Bombers

- Curtiss SB2C Helldiver
Speed: 480 km/h
Armanament: 2 × 20mm cannons in wings, 2 × 7,7mm machineguns in rear cockpit
Bombs: 1 × 1000kg bomb and 2× 500 kg bombs
Year of Introduction: 1943

American carrier-based dive-bomber. Probably the best overall dive bomber, even if pilots are cursing its reliability and handling compared to the earlier Douglass Dauntless SBD. Inexperienced pilots therefore do have trouble flying this aircraft, especially with the Douglass SBD in training roles.


Torpedo Planes

- Grumman TBF Avenger
Speed: 440 km/h
Armanament: 4× 12,7mm Browning HMGs
Bombs: 1 torpedo or 1000 kg bomb
Year of Introduction: 1942

Slower than its European counterparts or the Japanese torpedo plane but reliable enough... even if woefully obsolete. Still better than the Swordfish though if fighters are going to hunt them down...
However, the American pilots aren't any more flattering about it than its predecessor, and just call it the "Flying Coffin".
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Dragonite
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Dragonite » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:26 am

Wait, 20 each side? You'll have a hard time getting just twenty..
Aside from that, it's looking very good.

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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Pkdragon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:54 pm

you'll have a hard time getting 10 with this much text to read

i know we're a board of intellectuals and hipsters but we've also got day jobs
HPD wrote:You know the only thing on the agenda of the Squirtle Squad is pure, unadulterated chaos.

That, and watching Euros squirm.

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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:14 am

Well, this is basically all you need to know about the format of officers ^^
Format:

Character name
Nationality
Gender (Male, Female)
Position (high-ranked officers of Land, Navy and Air, President, Prime Minister, Minister of War, etc; no officers ranked Colonel (Captain in the navy) or lower please, there'd be too many of these), or any politician that isn't King, Queen, minister, president, or leader of a political party.

History: Did this person fight in a previous war or skirmish? Where did he train at, which tactics and strategies does he excel with? Or is he unfamiliar with war in its entirity?

Looks (might prove irrelevant throughout the story, but a consensus before the story starts is necessary in case one of us ends up meeting him as well as the ending scéne).


Stance regarding to war: Does he like war, does he despise it, how did he react prior to the war.
General charactrestics of his behaviour: Quick to anger, or nice and friendly? Or an awkward mixture of both? Is he adamant and brave, or is he a coward?

Behaviour regarding to battle (for military officers only): Is he an aggressive commander? does he prefer to preserve his fleet units at all costs (Ironically this can be just as fatal as the former, Lutjens being a prime example) ? Which character flaws does he have? Is he actually competent or did he gain his rank through nobility, or even both?
Is he cautious? Does he commit suicide (or go down with the ship) if the battle is lost?
Field of experience?

And other notable things about him, that may or may not affect the war's outcome?
Now I think of it, it'd be useful to mention where he's stationed.
Skills might need to be rated if I use dices to roll the battle outcome, but I can do that at the last moment if needed, depending on the given description. The alternative is that I will write out the naval battle from a neutral PoV (or switch it about) and let's see what happens. Battles write themselves pretty easily without a given outcome and it will be about as random as the dices (as basically everything is decided by chance, like if that vital bomb does not explode the war might change different, as well as if someone just cannot make a decision (pointing at Nagumo there - during the battle of Midway he didn't know if he wanted to load his aircraft with bombs or torpedoes - by the time he had figured it out he was down three aircraft carriers)!

And yes, the number of officers is pretty big, but think of it:
- We need a few high-ranked politicians and presidents, as well as a few kings - at least one for each country involved!
- We need a few carrier specialists, several cruiser specialists, submarine specialist, armchair generals/admirals who boss people around, a battleship specialist, maybe a destroyer commander... and maybe some staff officers too if they are important (Kuroshima during WW II comes to mind)... oh, and we need these for each side.
- We need several generals; for the island hopping campaigns, and for the African theatre.

This is bit of an issue I'm aware of, but it is holiday and we should at least get a solid number done.
The CV-specialist (aircraft carriers) are probably the most important as most major battles will be fought around them, and there will be two major campaigns the war starts with (Solomons and Iceland) that will lead to major naval battles that will certainly be fought with aircraft carriers.
The Solomons will also draw land battles and an island-hopping campaign, so having a general or two for each side would be nice too. Iceland will also draw a land invasion (and thus battles).

I don't know about Africa yet, but a general there on each side would be nice too (even if nothing happens).

We might need a bigger staff once the story gets on the roll - I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting things here and there is also always that chance that a major officer dies.
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Sven » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:35 am

Guys, how can I get this RP started if we don't have at least 20-30 officers for each side up and running?
Thank you for the very good joke.

Merry Christmas!

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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by Dragonite » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:50 am

You could consider people RPing serveral characters at once. This is doomed otherwise

The scope is also in critical danger of backfiring in general. Fate is smaller and had issues already.

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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:42 am

Yeah, I considered that Dragonite. As long as these characters are on the same side, it would work.
I actually think this RP is going to be faster than the Fate RP, for the simple reason that the possibility of a decisive battle exists, decided by a single, lethal dice roll. The decisive battle won't end the RP right away - likely - but it would give the victor a decisive advantage that can be pressed on (if not, well...), and if the side with the advantage does so correctly, the RP would end in a month or two. The RP can also turn into a war of attrition with very few battles (too many cautious commanders on both sides!) and then it can easily last well over a year.

Also, note that we don't really need the characters that will be designed in this thread later on for any kind of storywriting, except that they might be occassionally mentioned (as well as their typical character traits if they get REALLY out of line). You may want to pick exactly one of them which might be the superior of your personal character(s), but even that isn't necessary.

So... why the hell do I need this many characters?

Two reasons:
First: For our convenience; if I call the President of the United States "Jack", someone else calls him "Max" and a third person "Dave", things would get a little confusing. This thread gives us an anchor to fall back on if these important characters need to be mentioned for whatever reason; they are named and have at least some sort of personality and physical description we universally agree on.
And second: I need them for the battles! I can't write battles and/or roll dices if I don't know what kind of characters are squaring off!


Edit: As I'm editing this post to answer's Dragon's suggestion more accurately, it is getting clearer and clearer how important those officers are. Even if you have little to do with them after the RP has finally started, they will still decide the flow on the battlefield! They decide if you have to retreat or advance, if your sink ships or remains alive!


Edit2: Something else that needs to be done, is the rather boring task of naming all ships! Again it is something you have little to do with once the RP is up and running, but similar to characters, we can't have the same ship appearing in two entirely different locations.


Edit 3: Another possibility to make the final RP smaller, is to make sure we all fight in the same campaign. That way, the other areas of battle - while still important - can just be handled in the strategy thread to get the dice rolls done.
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Re: Naval War RP: History, armies, and admirals thread

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:13 am

Confirmation of the Edit 3 in the last post. We are - even with multiple characters - with too few participants to have the battles take place all over the world, so all of our characters will partake in one campaign, while the other campaigns are 'fodder' for the strategy thread.
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