AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

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donnytondesterkste
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AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:26 am

I've always had a feeling that Sinking Feeling could be routed...has anyone done this?

There's a couple factors here:

NC/HC: It seems HC is going to be harder to rout than NC simply due to the number of units. However, in HC Lash acquires fewer air units than in NC, so the main objective in HC will be killing the subs. In NC Lash sometimes has an infantry on the north island, which could be very annoying.

Lab: Since you may need a lander to rout the airport island it might be possible to get the lab map in both NC and HC. Unfortunately, sometimes the AW2 AI screws you by sending the bomber straight for your lander.

Balance Hack: Lash is nerfed greatly, and cruisers are buffed in Balance Hack AW2, which would make this much easier since you would have an easy time killing the copters/bombers that are roaming the seas.

If anyone wants to give it a try, I've got SGM files for both missions.
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Blackbird

Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by Blackbird » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:11 am

It can certainly be won by Rout, it would just take longer than completing the map normally. Those few foot soldiers on the northeast island and the units deploying from the air port are the only units that can't be readily eliminated by your initial forces. Routing this map would probably involve sending a lander or two with AA's to the northeast island to destroy those units. The problem of approaching the island could be resolved by damaging a Bomber to 1/2 HP with a mainland AA, causing it to flee and block up additional unit production from the airport. A little timing would be needed since the AI tends to spam B Copters every turn, but it can be done. Of course, you only need to destroy the B Ships to clear this map, so in a way it makes more sense to win by routing some units than by routing all of them =P.

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:24 pm

Of course it would take longer--my question is whether it can be done in the 17 day limit.

For HC, this may very well not be possible, as you'll need a certain amount of resources to destroy the battleships in the first place. Now, my guess would be that if you can lower a bomber to 1hp, you may be able to rush a lander to the north island quickly enough. On the other hand, it may be more efficient for you to use a battleship that you built early on--AAs are too valuable in the mid-game for you to be shipping them off.

Preliminary NC strategy, with lab map:

1. Eliminate Lash's oncoming land forces as you regularly would, taking the south base. ASAP, build a bship and move it north. Attack the south minicannon once, afterwards, start attacking Lash's bships. Immediately, build a lander and load a mech + AA in and move towards lab map island.
2. Proceed to rout Lash's land forces and take the north base as well. Attack the weakened south minicannon with Md. Tank or rocket to destroy it. Build AA from south base. Prepare to destroy northern minicannon. Drop mech off at lab map and capture.
3. 2 possibilities -- either Lash's first bcopter+bomber head for your land units, or for your sea units. If they head for your land units, move bship northwest around Lash's bships and move the lander (with AA) towards airport island. Engage Lash's air units with your AA, and destroy the north minicannon. If they head for your sea units, build a cruiser and have your bship continue attacking enemy bships. Move the Lander towards land to lure the air units in, and take them out.
4. Get the bomber down to 1 or 2hp, and it will retreat. By now you should have built a few artillery and should be attacking Lash's bships as normally would happen. Your lander and bship (and cruiser) should head to the airport island. It's also possible to get more bships to help with Lash's bships.
5. Proceed with eliminating any remaining air units, as well as Lash's bomber and infantry on the airport island. Then finish off her bships for a win!

I estimate that this will take longer than the 300 S-rank, which is somewhere around 14 days. However, it should not take all 17 days. Giving up on the lab map may or may not help you finish faster, as rushing your lander north will make it an easy target for her bombers and copters.
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Blackbird

Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by Blackbird » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:52 pm

Ah, I understand what your objective is now! Makes sense. I'm now regretting not writing the full D2D for 10 Day Sinking Feeling NC, as it could have come in useful here =P. I've got my cartridge saved, but I'll try to offer advice as best I can remember, for the time being. Your plan appears sound to me. A few tips:

- After the southern minicannon is eliminated, you can join your Md Tanks to raise more money for AAs/B Ships/Artilleries to speed up the rout.

- You can decoy the Bomber into range of your AA's by bringing an expendable unit to the cities south of the Airport. Perhaps the Recon, or a spare foot soldier/APC. Capture the city if you need to increase attack priority, AI almost always attacks capturing foot soldiers. That should keep it from flying off somewhere strange to harass your indirects or naval units.

- B Copters aren't a problem for your Lander; it gets 3-4HKO'd by them, with more likeliness on 4. It may actually be beneficial to decoy a few B Copter attacks with your Lander as it approaches, and charge your CO power while you are at it =P. AA's don't need to worry about them, either. If you can just eliminate that initial Bomber, I don't think you'll have many problems landing.

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:19 pm

Finished, 14 day 300-points, with lab map.

Overall it does look like a normal beat, except that you load one of your AA into the lander and build a cruiser.
I mostly followed my original strategy. I was somewhat more aggressive the first few days as I wanted to take the south base early and replenish my AA. This led to me losing a Md. Tank, which was fine. Also, one of Lash's 1hp tanks retreated to the north city, which required some effort to destroy later on.

I built my bship and hit the minicannon then the bships. I quickly realized that since Lash transports some of her infantry over with tcopters, you don't need to move your bship north. I did build a cruiser that came in handy greatly.

I got lucky with the air units--Lash moved her copter right into cruiser range, and her bomber right into AA range. Interestingly, I got it down to 1hp, but it didn't retreat. I think this is because the AI won't heal until it's finished its build sequence--tcopter, bcopter, bomber. I destroyed the bcopter and tcopter which made Lash rebuild them rather than heal her bomber.

Around day 10 I reached the north island and was beginning to bombard the bships...I was able to finish it off in one stroke by destroying the remaining 3 air units (the weakened bomber, a tcopter, and a newly built bcopter) and the final bship. I lost 2 units and was well under the technique limit so somebody could probably shave 2-3 days off my time. If you ignore the lab map I recommend loading the recon into the lander. It doesn't have much use on the mainland but you can block the airport with it (you can't with only 1 AA).

Onto Sinking Feeling HC!
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Blackbird

Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by Blackbird » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:28 am

Well done! I totally forgot about the T Copter. That would make eliminating the Infantry significantly easier if Lash ferries them all over for you.

The Bomber moves before B Copters in the AI movement order. If the Airport is in range of the Bomber but blocked by an existing B Copter, then the Bomber has no where to retreat to and decides to move/attack elsewhere. This is why I mentioned careful timing; you need to catch the Airport empty for a turn. The AI's not smart enough to move the B Copter and then park the Bomber =P

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:42 am

HC finished, 17 day 296 points, with lab map.

Much, much harder than the NC version due to a couple of factors. Your time killing the bships is much tighter now. You'll have to use your bships to help with the land battle AND attack the enemy bships. Somehow, in HC, I managed to capture the north base quicker than I did in NC. The downside was that the rushed time limit resulted in my rocket being destroyed, which slowed down the objective a bit. Another problem was that one of the 1hp neotanks retreated to the north, and I had to devote resources to destroy it later (resources that could have attacked the bships).

My first run failed miserably when Lash used her SCOP and destroyed my AA with her mech. The second time she ferried it over and I didn't have to deal with it; despite this, I had overprepared by loading another AA into a second lander halfway through. This proved unnecessary, as Lash only built 1 bomber from her airport and spent the rest of the time spamming copters, which I could kill with 1 hit.

That said, the subs and rockets near the bships significantly delay your lander from getting through, as each requires a certain number of bship/cruiser hits. Your land units won't get to the rockets in time to help out. However, once the subs were gone it went as usual--move the cruiser up and clear away copter, and drop off your AA right by the airport.

Overall I'm satisfied, having proven that two of the hardest rated missions are in fact, routable. I think that the HC rout time could be improved if I had not used funds creating the second AA and lander. Also, I would have built a cruiser earlier to deal with the subs BEFORE the lander gets there. And finally I'd try not to allow 1hp neotanks to escape.
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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:24 am

I can't seem to do the HC version in faster than 14 days with lab map...resulting in a 98 speed score.

Anyone want to give it a try? I can provide the SAV files.
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fcastro

Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by fcastro » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:36 am

Sorry I've just finished it and saved... =/ I got the 11/300 w/o lab map, is it sure that both are possible? Well probably by making money for early lander, there was some room so maybe Blackbird will get 10 like in NC... Btw, I got 7/300 in Danger x9 but 6 were very close (except a far away inf), I should have tried/read NC D2D for getting ideas first XD, but finally I got bored and saved...

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

HPD: Donnyton, asking for or providing ROMs is illegal also on WWN. I'd rather you didn't, ok?

Also, I've confirmed that a 98-speed score rout of HC Sinking Feeling WITH lab map is possible, AND I made errors during my runs. I'm hoping that somebody with a little more campaign savvy could lean my time to get the 300.
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fcastro

Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by fcastro » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:01 am

Well sorry, I dont feel like retrying and I think that Blackbird would play it better than me. Anyway I get more interesting in War Room than in Campaign now with the recent improvements...

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:24 am

"I'd sig that, but no room. >_>" -Blame Game

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HPD
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by HPD » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:31 am

donnyton wrote:HPD: Donnyton, asking for or providing ROMs is illegal also on WWN. I'd rather you didn't, ok?
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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:47 am

Ah, I had forgotten that rule. My apologies.
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by HPD » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:53 am

No probs.
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"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by Xenesis » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:03 am

Hey Donnyton, that video is cool buuut:

You should a) speed it up (2-3x time would be about appropriate) and b) either sync up the audio or place something else over the top of it as it gets horrid out of sync by part 2...

Just makes it a bit more watchable is all.
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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:20 am

Yea, I'm not sure whether the audio got out of sync while recording or by processing. My original copy is out of sync...and I've since deleted it.

I'm also thinking of doing a Hot Pursuit HC demonstration sometime. That mission seems to give people trouble, especially when they don't know the gimmick.
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by Xenesis » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:47 pm

Would have been while recording. Stupidly enough, VBA doesn't record audio and video at the same framerate which results in the Audio getting progressively more out of sync as the video plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tqDQNqDoGo - Tutorial for fixing it <-

And people don't know about the Mech block?
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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:09 am

As far as I know, the block strategy was first put forward by Indeconterion and I (we had discovered it on our own separately) and later refined and put into HPD's Hard Campaign FAQ. Thus it's rather local to WWN and not widely known. Most help posts I've seen regarding the mission STILL recommend spamming artillery for the center CO and getting lucky.
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by HPD » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:13 pm

I would like to think it is widely known, since that FAQ has been on GameFAQs for over a year and seems to be getting a decent amount of hits.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

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donnytondesterkste
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by donnytondesterkste » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:44 pm

It is widely known within the tighter AW community, but I still see random postings on other sites asking for help on it, with none of the advice pointing to the strategy.

In a similar vein AWRevival has a genius method for Final Front NC but nobody seems to use it.
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Re: AW2 Challenge - Sinking Feeling Rout

Post by eliascpsells » Sun May 08, 2011 8:37 am

On NC, I always get a 300 :s: with about 4 days left. I don't take out the airport island, but rather use my a-airs to deal with wat comes my way. i send a mech and an infantry to the lab map island, capture it and the port. i get bships and cruisers for the seas, and use my ground forces to take out the bships as well.
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