Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

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DrDoobie
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Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by DrDoobie » Wed May 07, 2014 3:11 pm

Hi! New to the forum but Advance Wars has been one of my all time favorite games. Recently there's been some interest by a few people in the speedrunning community of Single Segment RTA runs of the first Advance Wars. I completed a test run and came in at 3 hours 31 minutes and 26 seconds with a Final Battle team of Max, Andy, Drake. That time got cut by another runner who finished with a time of 1 hour and 56 minutes. There are other categories we are kicking around such as All Missions. A lot of the guides I used are for S Rank and while less turns may seem like less time RTA wise, I am looking for the quickest path at the cost of ranking (such as tech and power). To this end I'm thinking of using some S Rank guides and trimming them as much as possible for RTA time or just routing each mission on my own. If anyone would like to help or can offer anything that would help (such as understanding the AI, how Sturm works in Final Battle, what determines what opponent builds with their bases like Sturm in Enigma, etc) I would be really grateful. Advance Wars still lives!

So far for AW1, the runners that have either been working on the game or want to include myself (twitch.tv/drdoobie), smbai (twitch.tv/smbai) and iateyourpie (twitch.tv/iateyourpie).

Thanks for your time and hope to hear back from anyone interested!

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by Xenesis » Wed May 07, 2014 3:34 pm

Well, if you wanted to go for the absolute fastest time, the map glitch + enemy yield trick would be the fastest, but it skips the entirety of the gameplay (and would be very boring to watch :P ). The AW1 TAS does this and gets through the game in ~20 minutes.

For the vast majority of maps, the HQ capture strategy is likely going to be the fastest especially if you're ignoring score in favour of higher overall speed. For the most part, the Advance Campaign S-Rank guides around the forum should be of more help - they're purely focused on day count so, they're going to be faster and a lot of the general strategies should still work on Campaign maps with less enemy units. The lack of power score should help your time too, as you're seeing less CO Power animations.

As far as how the AI works - it has a degree of randomness, but it's basically a set of priorities assembled from a list. I have the AW2 set out, but I haven't extracted the AW1 set (although they're fairly similar). The tl;dr of the AI is that it assembles a list of properties it can build from, reads its list of building priorities, builds the highest priority unit it can afford and goes down the list.

As for Sturm in the Final Battle - I assume you mean Meteor Strike? It has an RNG selection of three targeting modes, but basically it randomly chooses: Most HP, Most Money, Most Money (Indirect units worth twice as much).

There's a lot more I can probably share, but specific questions would probably be easier than my ramblings :P
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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by DrDoobie » Wed May 07, 2014 7:54 pm

The glitched run would be considered any% while just the NC as fast as possible would be any% glitchless. The glitched run would be a fun donation incentive due to how short it is if ee get AW into something like Awesome Games Done Quick which would also raise the awareness of how great AW1 is. I'll take a look at the AC strats and see how well they turn out. Thanks for the info on Sturm! If I have any questions or if my fellow runners have any questions, we'll be sure to ask.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by HPD » Wed May 07, 2014 9:33 pm

Keep us posted on your progress! I'd love to see a real-time run like that.
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SiliconSquid

Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by SiliconSquid » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:49 pm

I ran Advance Wars 1 in August and was able to get a time or roughly 1:14:00 and I think that sub 1:10:00 is possible. I would upload to youtube but I am unable to upload videos that are that long.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by GipFace » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:40 am

That's not much of an excuse. Worst case scenario, make a Twitch/Hitbox account and stream the video there. Or locally record it, contact either me or Xenesis on IRC (#wwn @ irc.arg-irc.net), and we can host the video on warsworldnews.com.

Current WR for AW1 nonglitch with recorded proof is 1:43:48.8 by Smbai here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sgb6qtwyik

It's totally beatable. This guy spent over 30 minutes on The Final Battle. If you need more than 10 minutes on any mission, you're doing it wrong. It actually might be beatable in under an hour because there's only a minimum of 17 missions. AW2 and AW3 have a minimum of 25, and AW4 has 26. However, currently I'm more interested in optimizing the AW4 speedrun.

AW1 Any% is boring. Map editor glitch for all 17 missions, yawn. I wish there were a TAS for AW1 AC.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by GipFace » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Speak of the devil... this was uploaded a few hours after my previous post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB6SXXD0Y9E
73:24.7 by Alistair Grant. Timer stops after final attack, not when the scoreboard screen appears.

Yeah, this could definitely be under an hour, because 22 minutes on TFB is real bad.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by Linkman » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:36 pm

Is that yours' SiliconSquid?
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SiliconSquid

Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by SiliconSquid » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:30 am

Yeah I am Alistair Grant and that was my run :) Gipface thanks for the feedback, though I do not think that under an hour is possible because for the final battle some of Sturm's turns take a minute themselves to move all the units. I know it is possible to do the Final Battle in about 16 minutes (I have a new route that is consistent) so 22 minutes was really bad no question about it. Under 1:05:00 is definitely my next goal.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:10 pm

TFB can be won in 5 turns but I have no idea how that’s done. Still, a trick you could use is letting the AI capture the Airport close to the center, then put Missiles in range so that the AI wastes all its money into air units you can OHKO. You’re currently capturing that Airport yourself with the red army but you shouldn’t need to.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by HPD » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:19 pm

Yeah, the AI readily wastes 22k per day buying a Bomber there that you can easily destroy, making your life significantly easier.
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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by Linkman » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:27 am

Other than the occasional meteor :D
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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by HPD » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:51 am

You have a decoy CO for that.
"So when I say the fudge shaman flies he goddamn well flies and that's that." - Narts
"My motto is that there are far too many women in the world to waste time with men." - thefalman
"It's just that I'm not really aware of how a common conversation goes." - Imano Ob, talking on MSN about talking on MSN
"As for FE8, that was IS' variant of Man Spam - Dudes with Swords edition." - Xenesis

SiliconSquid

Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by SiliconSquid » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:07 am

I will keep trying to get faster and faster times, it would be insane to do it in 5 days and i will try and find/figure out how to do it. Hopefully, I can go fast enough such that i dont need the airport to be captured!

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ionG » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:48 pm

I got linked to this thread by my good friend cyghfer

It's not perfect (and it's on emulator), but here's a run I did of normal campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl06cf2yksU

Sometime soon I'll go through the whole thing and fine-tune it (probably with cyg's help). RNG manip for final battle would be great, but idk how feasible it is. Saving and restarting mid-fight seems to give me the same luck I would have had anyway. Saving+resetting after the previous mission has given me a consistent first turn so far, though.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:48 am

ionG wrote:Sometime soon I'll go through the whole thing and fine-tune it (probably with cyg's help). RNG manip for final battle would be great, but idk how feasible it is. Saving and restarting mid-fight seems to give me the same luck I would have had anyway. Saving+resetting after the previous mission has given me a consistent first turn so far, though.
I’ve never looked at AW’s RNG, but it’s likely to work like every other game in the series except for AWDS– loading will change your luck the first time, then always be the same. AWDS is much more random as there is a frame-based (so timing dependent) RNG advance at the start of the AI’s day, so it’s pretty much impossible to get anything consistent from the AI that depends on RNG in that game. In the others, you can manipulate the RNG in various ways, such as forcing it to draw a path (usually done by moving diagonally, making sure both directions of movement are possible so the RNG has to determine the path), or you can open the CO dossier menu to advance it. You could also save before doing an attack, since when attacking the RNG advances every frame which makes it very unlikely to hit the same frame each time and therefore get the same RN.

About your run… already the first mission looks like you’re doing it wrong. Running an Advance Wars game without getting help from the Wars World News community is a bad idea unless you don’t want a good run. I’m already helping out LeFrozer with AW2 though so I don’t think I’ll be able to help you on AW. Good luck on your run though.

Edit: You beat Gunfighter! (M2) in 9 days. I have a video that’s mostly consistent that wins in 7, it might be faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN0l49d ... E6&index=3. I have a few other AW videos in that playlist, but none of them are tailored for speed so to make them useful you may have to tweak them a bit.

Edit2: You beat It’s War! (M1) in 8 days. I have a 100% consistent (IIRC) 5/999 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6050RGy ... E6&index=1. Even disregarding that rout, I think it’s possible to HQ cap in 6 days (may be wrong though).

You do Max Strikes! (M4) in 5 days with Andy. I have a 3/999 with Max, idk if that helps (probably not): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okLn4dp ... E6&index=2

For turn records you can check Cyberscore and the WWN topic (latter only has 999 scores, former doesn’t). On Cyberscore there’s no differentiation between Advance Campaign and the normal Campaign so keep that in mind. I’m not sure which source is the most helpful or up to date so I just gave both. Edit: Just noticed the WWN topic’s records were accidentally deleted by a mod almost 6 years ago and never recovered. Welp. Another resource is AW Revival, but the records on there are mostly bad, not optimal. There could be some diamonds in the rough, though.

The biggest tip I can give you is that in this game the AI will always attack a transport unit over anything else, except for an HQ capturing Infantry. APCs, T-Copters, and Landers are super useful baits.

Btw could you explain what your planned route is? I know in the first 3 AW games the campaign missions change depending on which ones you do. So, what route do you take, and why do you think it’s the best?

Edit: Just saw you do Air Ace! (M3) in 7 days… that’s terrible. 6 days is a super easy HQ capture.

For The Final Battle! (last mission) you’re capturing the Airport in Orange Star’s zone. A strategy already mentioned previously in this topic is to let the AI capture that Airport, then locking it with Missiles (meaning putting Missiles in its range). This makes the AI waste a ton of money on useless Bombers that you can easily OHKO with said Missiles. Try it out.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ionG » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:43 am

Thanks for the great response! Yeah, when I first set out to route AW1 for speed, I didn't find much outside of S rank guides. I took those and tweaked them a lot. Some of the mission strategies in the video are my own, though.

I appreciate your help! I'll check your videos and cyberscore as much as I can.

I read the AW2 TAS notes, so I'm somewhat familiar with how the RNG works. Not that I used it to my advantage, =( I also use the transport unit bait a lot in this run. Thank goodness it's a thing!

As for the route, I avoid every extra mission. That leaves me with Max and Sami for final battle. Max seems like a good guy to have on the left side. Sami is used as meteor bait. It'd be nice to have an active fighter on the right, but idk who would be worth the time. Eagle gets me an extra mission, Kanbei gets me three extra missions. Drake requires more andy usage, and that eats up a minute and a half based on my current strategies on those missions.

The first choice is in Max Strikes! I chose Andy because I google tells me it put Max on the left side for Final Battle. Choosing Max puts Grit on the left? Max Strikes! as Max is faster than Andy, but I feel like Max brings more to the last fight than Grit.

For Olaf's Navy, I win by HQ capture, so I don't have to play the mission Olaf's Sea Strike. Since I hardly attack anything, I didn't use Max. It would take a few extra frames to switch to him.

Sami's Debut could be better. I choose Max for consistency in unit destruction.

The trio of Kanbei missions all need to be finished with low day counts in order to play the Sonja missions. When I'm about to win Kanbei Arrives!, I repeatedly end my turn so that I don't get the extra missions. I choose max for extra damage, though it may not be needed.

Mighty Kanbei! uses a bad route, for sure. In the video, I used Andy and won by rout. I use Sami and win by HQ capture now. Sami is around 40 seconds faster! Because I didn't complete Kanbei Arrives! within the day limit for Sonja missions, I can do this one and the next as quickly as needed.

Kanbei's error? is also bad. Not sure why I thought it was a good idea to win by capturing cities instead of HQ.

Considering that the fastest COs (Max, Andy, Sami, then Andy) on the Green Earth missions save almost two minutes compared to using all Andy, I don't think Drake is worth it. Wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong!

I use Sami for Andy Times Two! Seems like my day count could be better, though I'm not sure if the 4/5 day win is advanced campaign.

I get a 9 day victory on Enigma with Max. I choose him to more easily clear a path to the HQ. Max Force is useful! Also, sometimes Sturm will keep an mtank near the HQ, so I bring some of my own to kill it if needed.

The Final Battle is definitely the worst thing about this run. I didn't find much about using Sami effectively on this mission. It effectively turned into a 2v1 with Sami eating meteors. I held the choke point until I had enough units up there, then I pushed in by making a unit wall around an infantry.

edit 1: I timed your method for It's War! and it's a few seconds slower than mine. It's way faster in days, but all the extra explosions add up. Andy's CO power animation doesn't help either. Maybe it just needs some real-time tuning. Optimizing for real time is a lot different than turn count! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Eb_erb2TA

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ALAKTORN » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:09 am

ionG wrote:It'd be nice to have an active fighter on the right, but idk who would be worth the time. Eagle gets me an extra mission, Kanbei gets me three extra missions. Drake requires more andy usage, and that eats up a minute and a half based on my current strategies on those missions.
The 5 days record is with Andy, Max, and Eagle. Drake sounds useless, Kanbei would be pretty good probably, but definitely not worth 3 extra missions (I assume that’s several minutes).
ionG wrote:The first choice is in Max Strikes! I chose Andy because I google tells me it put Max on the left side for Final Battle. Choosing Max puts Grit on the left? Max Strikes! as Max is faster than Andy, but I feel like Max brings more to the last fight than Grit.
You’re probably right on that. Max has 150% Attack on direct-attacking units (except for soldiers), which is damn ridiculous. Kanbei only gets 120%, and Eagle only 115% (Air units only).
ionG wrote:Kanbei's error? is also bad. Not sure why I thought it was a good idea to win by capturing cities instead of HQ.
IIRC I HQ captured this one in 5 days, but it may be hard/inconsistent. HQ cap in 6 days should be good.
ionG wrote:Considering that the fastest COs (Max, Andy, Sami, then Andy) on the Green Earth missions save almost two minutes compared to using all Andy, I don't think Drake is worth it. Wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong!
If that’s just to get Drake on TFB, even if it didn’t require any time I don’t think I’d care about him.
ionG wrote:I use Sami for Andy Times Two! Seems like my day count could be better, though I'm not sure if the 4/5 day win is advanced campaign.
Yeah it’s annoying that the records got deleted and no one noticed. I tried contacting Translucent Air to see if he has them backed up but I don’t have high hopes…
ionG wrote:edit 1: I timed your method for It's War! and it's a few seconds slower than mine. It's way faster in days, but all the extra explosions add up. Andy's CO power animation doesn't help either. Maybe it just needs some real-time tuning. Optimizing for real time is a lot different than turn count! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Eb_erb2TA
Yeah, understandable. I think your HQ cap is improvable too, so it’d become even faster. You should be able to use fewer units and still cap.

By the way, it looks like you’re not skipping the attack animations on AI’s turn? You can hold down A during the AI’s turn to skip a few animations like that. (Unless this game is different from AW2/DS.) Edit: Confirmed to work in AW too. I think it doesn’t in DoR, though.

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Re: Advance Wars 1 Single Segment RTA Speedrun discussion

Post by ALAKTORN » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:59 am

Came up with a pretty good HQ Cap for M1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L97TGIlNBSU
Advance Wars – Campaign It’s War! 6 days speedrun strategy
“The Arty moves in the South aren’t necessary, but they may be faster (it stops you from charging COP, which in turn triggers a dialogue box); you can also choose not to destroy the Arty and just hit it to low HP to avoid the explosion. It may also be faster to destroy the AA on Day 3 by moving your own AA 1 North of it to attack it and then destroying it with the Mech, I don’t know.”

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