Anyone want to battle?

The board for competitive Advance Wars battling.
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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:18 pm

I had the upper hand against Sven, and that I'll always cherish (or, at least I think I had the upper hand). ^_^ Good game honey, and it certainly proved to be a very interesting take on Whirly.

Also Isabella is rape. I recommend anyone fighting against her to take out her CO Unit ASAP to prevent her power from going off.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Good game.

I was trying too much to play it like AWDS, and it doesn't really work out so well. Using up units and sending them into battle for the sake of sending them into battle is now just a complete waste of funding as you don't get a power out of it. The Battleship just rapes with an effective 10 range or similar. The one shot wonder 6000 boat is amusing as hell and adds a bunch of strategy to the game. Naval battles are no longer boring.

The basic small ground map doesn't really change from game to game, but the bigger the map gets, the more you're including the newer units, and the usage of bikes instead of infantry and APCs.

Speaking of infantry, as much as I loathe to admit it, they are not the answer to all of your problems anymore. 95% of them, yes, but there is that 5% of the time where all the money spent on mass producing Infantry would be better spent elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if this applied pre DoR too, but that's never appeared to me yet.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:30 pm

Yeah, I felt this time Naval battles had more of a dynamic feel rather than just the paper-rock-scissors crap of other games, and B-Ships are so much fun it should be illegal (but, I find the offense and defense nerf keeps them quite balanced, and the 5 range kept them from reaching my most important indirects in the centre). But, I think you emphasized the northern naval battle far too much, and that ended up hurting your ground campaign to the point of near devastation. It was odd though how your outright inf spam lost to my 3-indirect + meatwall army, but I think that was because you were spending a little too heavily on your navy to buy yourself more artillery and a rocket or two.

I was actually going to spring for a carrier at one point for fun, but that would've drained my resources the point of an outright loss the second I built it. The reason I think it'd be interesting in FoW too is because then Carriers and Flares may actually see some play (since it won't be a simple: see unit --> Counter dynamic).

And yes, I loved how on Whirly, inf spam no longer took outright precedence over every other possible strategy, though I can't quite put my finger on a specific 'why' yet. Perhaps Whirly will end up a DoR standard for it's inherent inclusion of a broader range of units.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:32 pm

Oh, and did you notice how we didn't use a single tank, basic or otherwise? They just didn't end up necessary on that map, though having a tank or two behind my meatwalls would've helped in some marginal way at least.

Ohhhh, do you think the fact we didn't use tanks made inf spam less effective?

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:35 pm

I was really shocked in that I was actually having to think in order to do naval combat, as such I overcompensated in the amount of funding I spent on the area. I forgot that battleships don't outrange rockets anymore, so they are safe to use on a map like whirly. Subs starting out dived means you need to stay the fudge alert in order to catch them, no slacking off and just checking a log.

As for CO placement, I was completely lost on a map as large as Whirly, I jumped my CO several times but never really held it.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:37 pm

Treedweller wrote:Oh, and did you notice how we didn't use a single tank, basic or otherwise? They just didn't end up necessary on that map, though having a tank or two behind my meatwalls would've helped in some marginal way at least.

Ohhhh, do you think the fact we didn't use tanks made inf spam less effective?
Yeah, there was no real reason to have the infantry, we weren't protecting our indirects from anything. I realized that way too late.

Also, having more units didn't increase our attacks per turn either. So the infantry were truly useless beyond a few for meatshielding.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:46 pm

Yeah, as long as there's a restrictive enough tract of land to protect Rockets, they become far more useful on Naval maps than they used to be. And I agree, Subs starting out dived means you have to consistently watch EXACTLY where the opponent's funding is going, and their extra fuel means they aren't ever going to surface except in the most dire of situations. Much <3 to Subs now.

As for your CO, I think you should've just stuck him in an early Recon like I did, and you may've got quite a bit of use out of Brenner, especially in light that I was opting to damage rather than KO most the time; his power definitely would've been tide-turning, especially after I used Isabella's to cripple two of your B-Ships.

As for the building of tanks, I think we were too busy spending on our Navy's to do anything particularly amazing on the ground; it might've been a mistake on our part, but both time and testing will tell. The real reason I didn't spend on Tanks is because I thought they'd just end up being useless in light of all the mechs you were pumping out, and if I would've built an MD or War Tank, you would've just pummeled it with your B-Ships. But I don't know, I think it's a really complex issue that I can't fully explain.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:06 pm

Also I love how we turned this topic into a cool discussion worth reading ^_^

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Blame Game

Post by Blame Game » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:18 pm

Treedweller wrote:Also I love how we turned this topic into a cool discussion worth reading ^_^
I agree, this discussion is getting me excited >_>

Anyway, have you seen any evidence of Isabella having a slower charge rate for her power? She kind of kills Gage and Will otherwise, factor in the overly situational air COs and Penny and the useful COs seem to boil down to Brenner, Isabella, Forsythe and Tabitha. Lin seems decent enough as well, especially assuming that we actually embrace fog of war play this time around, which I think is a good idea.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:25 pm

I wasn't paying attention to that particular issue (the unit dynamics got me far too excited), so unfortunately I can't even speculate well enough to guess either way. Assuming the worst -that she does indeed completely outclass those other COs- we just build a tier list and use it for competitive play.

As for Fog of War, you can count on me to advocate it for competitive play as far as my own influence can possibly push; I want to see it used on popular maps like Whirly and Pheasant, and I want to see new maps designed specifically for that environment. And as a plus, I don't think Lin will take the Sonja route and end up overpowered in FoW, since it's rather hard to charge her power with such a small initial CO zone, and everyone has access to looking inside forests with the new and interesting Flare unit.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:38 pm

Oh, if you want to somehow test it dear, we can play a match, but to be perfectly upfront and honest, I'm not aware of the specific mechanics of charging powers in this game anyways. Is it 60 HP worth of damage done by or to units in the CO zone that's commonly accepted at this point? And at what level of damage do CO Zones expand?
Last edited by Treedweller on Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tsuruya
Location: Canada

Post by Tsuruya » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:39 pm

Only damage dealt not recieved
Image

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 pm

Ah, okay, that pretty much fits in with everything I did manage to notice. Do you know the levels of damage where CO Zones expand honey?

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Tsuruya
Location: Canada

Post by Tsuruya » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:42 pm

I'm not sure what you're asking for but

Half-charge is +1, full charge is +2
Image

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:43 pm

Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:10 am

Btw, I copied Dizziness if you want to play later Sven deary.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:15 am

I'll be game.

There's definitely no point to playing random if I can play actual good people. :).

Trying to figure out what to do with your CO unit is a bitch.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:18 am

Well, you'll have to host it so you can pick from my maps honeybunch. I'm actually ready now if you are, though don't expect too much because Dizziness is a pretty overwhelming map, even compared to Whirly.

As for the CO Unit, I recommend just picking something and being consistent. It's better to get your power/zone than to twiddle your thumbs.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:20 am

Can't you use the mapsend function to send it to me?

Or something similar?

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:21 am

Oh, I guess I could. Let's try that then.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:22 am

Oops, this is confusing. Did it work dear?

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:23 am

Now hosting.

I sure hope it worked, it said I received the maps.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:23 am

k cool

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:26 am

You forgot your poor FTA counter.

Might want to add one in.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:27 am

Oh crumpets, I just realized that. Oh well, I'll add it after the battle.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:28 am

And I forgot Infs cost 1500 again :( Damn

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am

Yeah, filling all your bases up is actually quite hard to do.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:34 am

Oh, wow, attempt at early HQ steal. And it'll probably work ;_;

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:38 am

It won't work on maps like these, but it forces the opponent to waste funding.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:40 am

Which makes me sick. Next time I'm going to study the maps a little before playing and consider the options before playing so I don't fall victim to obvious traps like that.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:45 am

Haha, realized you couldn't load the motor inf into the T-Copter?

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:46 am

No, I'm not that retarded Sven deary. I was trying to get my inf into the Copter.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am

Also lol Sub.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 am

Oh wait nevermind Fighter

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Dragonite
Rank: My face is beaming.
Location: the netherlands(mostly)

Post by Dragonite » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:48 am

I envy you guys..
Disscussing and playing like this must be awesome..

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:49 am

Like I would waste my time building a random submarine.

OK CO GO INTO THE FIGHTER GOOD CO

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:51 am

You'd waste 30000 though ;_;

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:54 am

Oh, and you do know my CO Duster only cost 500G more than your Fighter, right?

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:55 am

i don't even know what a duster is

it flies, a fighter can kill it

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:58 am

You fudge over your copter, lol.

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