We need a new Ladder.

The board for competitive Advance Wars battling.
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DTaeKim
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We need a new Ladder.

Post by DTaeKim » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:38 am

With the release of Advance Wars: DoR/DC and the advent of Wi-Fi, we can use the opportunity to resurrect the WWN ladder.

Sven mentioned that the AWN ladder uses the Elo rating system, the same one used in Chess. However, I don't know how to calculate this, though I imagine someone with a spreadsheet program.

As for disconnects, I imagine they will not be factored in the rating system.
What can change the nature of a man?

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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:47 am

no i demand your two disconnects become my wins >:{

i still don't see why we can't just get me and treed amnesty or whatever you want to call it at AWN and then we can participate there, saves us a lot of work

it's what madcow seems to want, he wants the AWN ladder to be relevant to the whole AW community

can't do that if we're banned.

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Post by GipFace » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:50 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating

A few suggestions:

Set the starting rating at 1600 instead of 1000, since three-digit ratings tend to make people quit, and there will obviously be a smaller spread of games compared to Chess. That means 1800 would be someone with a good amount of skill, and an easy-to-remember 2000+ would be the expert bar. I don't expect more than a handful of people to ever break 2000+, since that would typically mean the player is at least 250 games over .500.

K16 should be for normal matches, while K32 should be for tournament matches (more weight).

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:54 am

Maybe we can run a link from here to there if we intend to use it.
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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:05 am

get on MSN DTK

even 5 minutes will be ok

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:23 am

I can't right now because I'm in class. Give me another half-hour or so.
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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:26 am

ok lol

in class lol

wwn in class

hard worker

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:32 am

I can get away with surfing websites, but not MSN. Besides, I did the assignment ahead of time.
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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:25 am

I'd rather there be an exclusive WWN ladder, and so long as someone teaches me how to do ELO calculations (and as long as it isn't anymore advanced than basic high school level algebra) I can do the calculations and update the ladder myself if no one else wants to. If it involves logarithms or something stupid like that that I've forgotten though, count me out, because I'm never learning that or again or taking any sort of math besides easy-ass business statistics. It was hard enough to pass the final with any sort of distinction, thanks.

Also AWN is excessively lame, and being near the top of their ladder means nothing to me since the majority will be easy wins. Besides, I like surfing WWN a lot better than AWN, and I hate almost every user there who doesn't already happen post on WWN too.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:30 am

Treed, while being on top of the AWN ladder at the moment is no big accomplishment, you can't deny that they are the largest fansite and probably have the best odds for having new good players emerge.

If their ladder is pulled off correctly we'll probably be seeing some of the AWBW people reporting their matches as well. Even if we report our matches on the AWN ladder, nothing says we need to play them or talk to them if you don't want to. Fight WWNers only if you want, but it'd be a shame not to have your skill recorded if you can go 50/50 with people who can beat everyone else.

It doesn't mean anything to me to be on the top, but it does mean something to be able to identify new players and spend my time only practicing and playing with people who have skill levels closest to my own.

Also, save yourself the trouble, I'm sure there's a way to program it.

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DTaeKim
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Post by DTaeKim » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:35 am

Try Googling it. I think there's a calculator somewhere.
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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:38 am

I completely understand what you're saying, and I fully comprehend why it would be a wise decision on our parts to actually join their ladder, but I'm not big into the competitive scene at all so I'd rather just test my abilities against a small (but fairly skilled even in comparison to AW BW) community of people that I know and like interacting with.

Besides, I don't have much hope in us being reinstated as users, though the reason for banning was absurd. Okay, so I spam some pictures of cute cats and make mention of Fal having my family at gunpoint if I don't do it; what of it? I thought I'd get two warnings at best, but it's not like I cared (or indeed do care) either way. And if we get Alt accounts, they won't last long even provided that the people who visit both AWN and WWN keep silent on the issue since some of their more whiny users will undoubtedly make an inter-community move at some point.

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Blame Game

Post by Blame Game » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:39 am

I have to go with Sven on this one. There was talk about "the smogon of AW" in another thread and honestly the site with the best chance of becoming that is AWN due to sheer activity, all they need is good players migrating there.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:42 am

The real clincher, Treed, was googling Advance Wars.

AWN is the fifth result.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:43 am

The problem with that BG is AWN's current userbase of vets are all retards and suck at the game, whereas Smogon began with a small userbase of intelligent individuals willing to learn (however big of assholes they may actually be) who controlled the heirarchy of the forum. If good players do migrate, I doubt they're going to get the respect they deserve, and as such will be flooded with negative, uninformed responses when they try and develop the theory. Just look at the Tiers topic on AWN for example with Osprey, who's been a member at AWN for a couple years.

It'll turn into another GameFAQs at best imo.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:45 am

The administration is willing to learn and they generally are good people. Osprey got warned for being a dick in that topic. Just because they're from AWN doesn't mean they're retarded, they're merely ignorant.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:47 am

In my vocabulary, I use retarded freely to imply ignorance, not a constant mental condition. I just think it's going to be too considerable a shift in cognition for the general populace to make it work, but who knows, I might be eating my words in a couple months.

If I do get my account back though, I'll give their ladder system a try, m'kay?

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Sven

Post by Sven » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:49 am

Sure, all I ask.

Besides you know even if I don't get in legally I'll smuggle my way in somehow secretly.

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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:50 am

You already have infiltrated their site I'm sure, hee hee.

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Liam
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Post by Liam » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:17 am

- Sven: (8/26/2007): Inappropriate images, spam.
- treedweller15: (8/26/2007): Continuous spamming.
- ragingwarlord435: (8/26/2007): Stupidity, spamming.

Why is it I always miss the decent stuff?
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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:23 pm

THE FALMAN HAS MY BROTHER AND SISTER AT GUNPOINT AND WILL SHOOT IF I DO NOT POST THESE CATS ONE LAST TIME

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Liam
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Post by Liam » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:10 pm

If you posted that, then truthfully you deserved to be banned. Yet, I can't stop chuckling to myself. :wink:
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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:15 pm

that was treed actually

i do love how i got warlord banned for stupidity though

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D13

Post by D13 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:17 pm

Hey I don't completely suck lol

But ack, I need to get my wifi working

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:19 pm

hey what do you think the chances of getting myself unbanned are if i write a lengthy apology

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Liam
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Post by Liam » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:21 pm

99.9999999999999999999999999% chance of failure, because a) they rarely unban someone and b) you'll do something similar somewhere down the line to annoy them.
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Your political compass:
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21

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D13

Post by D13 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:23 pm

I think there's a rule where you have to appeal with 2 days of the ban or something

=(

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:26 pm

Do I care about AWN's rules regarding ban times?

No.

All I care about is that they have a functioning ladder, and that it's in their best interests to have the best players of WWN participating.

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Post by onewaystreet » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:27 pm

Sven, they might not unban you, but someone who doesn't plan to register at AWN could make an account and give you the password to it, and as long as you tell them outright that you're Sven, and wanted to apologize for past actions, they'll either let you off the hook or ban the false account, which they wouldn't care about at all.
thefalman wrote:Honestly, just when I thought we could all have a nice topic about mocking ridiculously, overly hardcore fundamentalists, it has to turn into a religious debate.

You bastards.
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I know it's an alien concept to you RS, but there's no need to act so surprised.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:29 pm

my IP refreshes constantly and getting in is no big deal

the deal is participating in their ladder

once i start my win record plus my friend code will probably make it very clear who i am

i'm just going to make a PM to madcow with the alt account, if i get somewhere, great, if I don't, what a shame, they lost a player

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Liam
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Post by Liam » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:55 pm

What will you do if they don't unban you or let you use an alt?
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Sven

Post by Sven » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:01 pm

brute force beat everybody?

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Liam
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Post by Liam » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:10 pm

lol, I'm sure that will work :wink:
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thefalman
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Post by thefalman » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:40 am

D13 wrote:I think there's a rule where you have to appeal with 2 days of the ban or something

=(
Psychotic Guy, SJCrew, Agamemnon, Tekkaman Finality or whatever the hell he's called, the list goes on.

...actually, I don't think it does, but you get the idea lol. I'm sure if Sven and Treed act nice then they can get back in. I'll put in a good word if necessary.
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Treedweller

Post by Treedweller » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:06 am

Awww, you're such a dear. <3

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MoogleGunner

Post by MoogleGunner » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:00 am

'sup guys.

Since y'know, this is a public forum... and in spite of how "ignorant"/"retarded" I may be, since I post on AWN and all, I can, in fact find relevant topics on other forums.

Bitterness at the clear disdain you have for me and my forums aside, I thought I'd pop up and clarify what our general rules for unbanning are:

We have never, in all the time I've been a mod, kept someone banned after they made a legitimate apology for their actions. I don't know what you sent Madcow, since he didn't post it (if you could forward it to me, on AWN or CW or here, I'd appreciate it), but if you were actually apologizing for your trolling of AWN, I find it hard to expect that you won't get back in, and I've taken steps towards getting you back in, you have my recommendation, and I'll be taking steps towards getting you people back in. On the other hand, if you go and start trolling again, raising a huge fuss over every single action we (the AWN staff) make, and pulling the name AWN out like it's a deep insult on every single board in the AW Community, you will be banned again, and I will make damn sure you never come back.
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Blame Game

Post by Blame Game » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:04 am

don't worry about the awn hate, we're just insecure about the fact that no matter how much we play the game our community will be like 1/10th the size it should be >_>

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:14 am

MoogleGunner wrote:'sup guys.

Since y'know, this is a public forum... and in spite of how "ignorant"/"retarded" I may be, since I post on AWN and all, I can, in fact find relevant topics on other forums.

Bitterness at the clear disdain you have for me and my forums aside, I thought I'd pop up and clarify what our general rules for unbanning are:

We have never, in all the time I've been a mod, kept someone banned after they made a legitimate apology for their actions. I don't know what you sent Madcow, since he didn't post it (if you could forward it to me, on AWN or The-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named or here, I'd appreciate it), but if you were actually apologizing for your trolling of AWN, I find it hard to expect that you won't get back in, and I've taken steps towards getting you back in, you have my recommendation, and I'll be taking steps towards getting you people back in. On the other hand, if you go and start trolling again, raising a huge fuss over every single action we (the AWN staff) make, and pulling the name AWN out like it's a deep insult on every single board in the AW Community, you will be banned again, and I will make damn sure you never come back.
i was hoping i would find you posting

i'm not interested in your community, because before this ladder, i'm sorry to say, it wasn't overly about advance wars.

i'm going there to play the ladder and report my matches, and make posts and similar things revolving around it. i will be nice, courteous, and whatever else the administration asks of me. i understand i will be on a one mistake -> ban sort of warning. i will avoid personal conflicts of any nature.

i have a great respect for the userbase and organization AWN has for the casual advance wars fan. AWN made a ladder and now is a hub of organization for any tournament oriented fans as well. i will not sully the name of AWN, far from it, as you see here, i'm trying to call people to play on and use the ladder there.

oh, and i'll use the shift key :)

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MoogleGunner

Post by MoogleGunner » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:17 am

>_> It would have been like... five times easier to MSN me :P but okay. That works.

Also you're correct, our community wasn't really focused on AW until recently. Kinda strange how that worked out really.
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S'ven says:
All I wanted was a driver update, not eternal damnation in hell.
Thanks to Taboo for my uber sexy sig and avy images.

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Sven

Post by Sven » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:20 am

oh here's the message, new email at the end

Hello Madcow;

The ladder you've created is very interesting, I hope it turns out to be successful throughout not only AWN, but the larger AW community as a whole.

To introduce myself, I usually go by Sven on the Advance Wars communities. No offense, but AWN has never been very relevant to the competitive advance wars community. The site had a tournament and a campaign, but both fell into inactivity in 2006. Since you had nothing else to offer, and it seemed as if you never would, myself and a friend of mine, Treedweller, decided we would get ourselves banned for kicks, and so we did.

To go off on a different tangent, we at WWN are hoping that this ladder will be the one definitive way to gauge an AW player's skill. Treedweller and myself are leading the way in identifying tiers and strategies for competitive play, and we would like to be able to participate on your ladder. All we ask is that you unban the accounts and give us a second chance, we won't touch your social forums, we won't cause any mischief, we just want a chance to play and discuss the game.

The only reason we ask this is because we do not want to have to fracture the Advance Wars player base by having two separate ladders. I'm not trying to sound threatening while saying this, but you probably will end up losing the elite WWN playerbase if you don't end up unbanning us, as I'm basically the only one there that wants us to use AWN's ladder. Just keep it in mind if you'd like to unban us or not.

If you'd like to ban this account and never read a post from me again, I perfectly understand, it's well within your rights to do so. If you'd like to discuss it/ask questions before making a decision, hit me up on MSN at ribozoned@gmail.com, or we can just continue through PMs.

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