Project Advance Wars Frontier

-Design Maps
Show off your creative stuff here. Comics, units, maps, spritework or anything creative to do with Advance Wars.
ThunderWalker
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by ThunderWalker » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:03 pm

Also, a mountain 'crawler' with that movement incapable of crossing other terrain... how the... I cannot comprehend that.

Also, I think Lash would think a bit more practical after the failure of the Piperunner...
A walking tank could work, capable of traversing all terrain, using Infantry movement, but even that would not carry artillery guns.
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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:18 pm

Oh, you think Piperunners were actually bad, do you? And as for Mountain Crawlers, I think it all depends on the map itself and with Design Maps, anything's possible. I hope you're not too quick to judge. I was hoping for users to think of a possibly better design for a Mountain Crawler, not a response that suggests that Design Maps don't exist.

ThunderWalker
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by ThunderWalker » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:42 am

Well, I find a walker the logical evolution. A walking tank, moving unimpeded at roads and plains, and even forests and mountains. Rivers can be forded but have increased movement costs.
5 movement sounds pretty logical as a tracked vehicle should be generally faster - this is assuming it is a 2-legged walker, a clone of the standard Tank or Anti-Air otherwise (but probably a bit heavier armoured).
If it carries artillery guns, it will be much slower because these things have too much recoil to stabilize on a two-legged walker (the recoil would knock the thing over), and four- or six-legged walkers are slower than two-legged walkers, but also obviously bulkierso it coult take a good number of hits.
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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:28 am

I can't come up with this "Walker". Hasn't that idea been done before on AW Comedians Wiki? I'm pretty sure it has. My current Mountain Crawler design has four legs, as you probably noticed. Alright, if you or anyone here comes up with something suitable based on this original concept of my Mountain Crawler, then I think there should be a good sprite design for it as well.

...Aren't there some kind of treads or something that can take mountains? I don't know much about all-terrain vehicles.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:01 pm

Honestly, if you steal that idea I don't think anyone gives a monkeys

Just call it the Thunder Walker and it will be original.

BTW logically all walkers are armed with nuclear ICBM's so it should have the ability to launch black bombs.

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:27 am

I don't care if AW Comedians Wiki notices or not. I'm far too honorable to steal their Walker idea. All I intended was to provide a mountain equivalent to Lash's Piperunner just so a unit would always have high terrain defense. I can reduce its movement from 8 to 5 and try other things to make it more military logical, but I really won't call it a Walker. Besides being "taken", it just sounds too Star Wars.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:07 am

So what's the deal with tracing my old custom wars drawings and slapping them into your own project?

Actually why not just use the original drawings since you've not really changed the designs.

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JSRulz

Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by JSRulz » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:48 am

"I wonder... would that project's completion change anything here or the AW fandom for that matter?"
I really don't know if that would be the case at this point. There is a lot of hidden feelings floating around.

Currently, I think the issue is that AW isn't really accessible enough. I mean, you have to be on a PC to even use Teamviewer, and you have to trust the person across the screen. It is a pretty dicey proposition, and I can see why that didn't take off. If Nintendo left the Wi-fi on for AWDoR, maybe there would have been a small cult. However, even though AWDoR was a good game, it sort of split the fan base of what kind of a game AW is supposed to be. Many still longed for the quirky characters and global powers of AWDS while others wanted the competitive netplay.

Honestly, the only real injection I've seen was that Advance Wars has a pretty strong Reddit! following for a game that has stopped being in production for this long. I mean, it is just above 1000 people as of this post and it was started a little over a year ago. That is pretty decent growth for something that wasn't really advertised. It shows, in some small way, people still do care for AW and want to see something come from it.

As for custom projects, I think the sad part is that throwing out multiple quick prototypes does not work for this community. When the prototype gets thrown out, it is slightly praised, followed by immediately despised and scorned. Therefore, it pretty much is forcing developers to do the painstaking approach of making the game fully complete (without much testing) before release. For a game as big as AW, I think that is a suicidal proposition. But, anything is better than facing the "rofl... another failure clone" this community has offered developers time and time again.

There has to be some flex in the community, alongside a hard working team to start generating people flow and interest back into the game of Advance Wars. Programmers are an extremely rare resource, and finding ones willing to work on a specific game is even more rare. The same goes for artists, musicians, and story writers. It is so important that people take steps to encourage the developers so they would continue to develop and improve the game... and the community.

So, yeah, the development projects will only thrive if the community wants it to thrive. The more support given by the communities, the better chance AW community efforts has to live on another 10 years and beyond.

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:01 am

Narts: Just thought to use vector-based drawings since I'm better with drawing them. And what would I be proving if I used the original sprite designs? I hope you were involved in those better sprite designs and not the old ones that looked like lazy fusions such as Meiyo.

JSRulz: This is a very good point. I showcased my "project" as a means to showcase my art and story writing skills. I guess I just didn't think the AW hype had died down to such a low level.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:36 pm

Yes, I was involved with making quite a few of the sprites you've taken from Custom Wars (just for the record, I'm not angry or anything. I don't really care, or mind)

Most of the ones I made were originally large digital paintings that were then converted into sprites. They weren't vectors, but they were large enough for most reasonable purposes.

Some of the ones I made include:

Sophie:
Image

and Ember:
Image

Most of the "lazy fusions" were made by Kosheh and were bad by purpose, as they were meant to be placeholders until better sprites could be made. Of course, the project was eventually abandoned and that's why many of the placeholders ended up being permanent.

Meiyo, however, had a better art and not just a frankensprite (are you taking all your assets from Commander Wars? IIRC that doesn't include everything Custom Wars had.)

Image

This was also by me, though, if my memory serves me it was based on a line drawing by x0. I did the colouring. Some of the sprites were team efforts like this, where someone did a line art and then someone (usually me) coloured it and then someone else turned it into pixel art.

@JSR: The purpose of a game prototype is to test ideas and game design in a practical environment. That's it. You learn what works and what doesn't and then iterate your design. In practice, you must do this when making a game (whether you release those protos to a wider public or not is up to you) because theorycrafting doesn't work. Only real gameplay situations can show you if an idea has potential or not.

If you get disheartened enough by negative feedback to stop working on your project you probably weren't very motivated to begin with.

ThunderWalker
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by ThunderWalker » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:55 pm

JSRulz wrote:
"I wonder... would that project's completion change anything here or the AW fandom for that matter?"
I really don't know if that would be the case at this point. There is a lot of hidden feelings floating around.

Currently, I think the issue is that AW isn't really accessible enough. I mean, you have to be on a PC to even use Teamviewer, and you have to trust the person across the screen. It is a pretty dicey proposition, and I can see why that didn't take off. If Nintendo left the Wi-fi on for AWDoR, maybe there would have been a small cult. However, even though AWDoR was a good game, it sort of split the fan base of what kind of a game AW is supposed to be. Many still longed for the quirky characters and global powers of AWDS while others wanted the competitive netplay.

Honestly, the only real injection I've seen was that Advance Wars has a pretty strong Reddit! following for a game that has stopped being in production for this long. I mean, it is just above 1000 people as of this post and it was started a little over a year ago. That is pretty decent growth for something that wasn't really advertised. It shows, in some small way, people still do care for AW and want to see something come from it.

As for custom projects, I think the sad part is that throwing out multiple quick prototypes does not work for this community. When the prototype gets thrown out, it is slightly praised, followed by immediately despised and scorned. Therefore, it pretty much is forcing developers to do the painstaking approach of making the game fully complete (without much testing) before release. For a game as big as AW, I think that is a suicidal proposition. But, anything is better than facing the "rofl... another failure clone" this community has offered developers time and time again.

There has to be some flex in the community, alongside a hard working team to start generating people flow and interest back into the game of Advance Wars. Programmers are an extremely rare resource, and finding ones willing to work on a specific game is even more rare. The same goes for artists, musicians, and story writers. It is so important that people take steps to encourage the developers so they would continue to develop and improve the game... and the community.

So, yeah, the development projects will only thrive if the community wants it to thrive. The more support given by the communities, the better chance AW community efforts has to live on another 10 years and beyond.
This is pretty important.

You need at least 1-2 artists
You need several programmers
You need a storyline-writer.
You need the boss; the person who does the gameplay design and who decides to add which features in which order.

And you need to have the patience to not release whatever progress you have made until you at least have a campaign (or AW1 Tutorial) AND online multiplayer ready (including AI). After this, a closed beta would be released, and once the most aggrevating bugs and balance issues would be fixed, an open beta could be posted on the forums.

With a dedicated team of six you should be capable of getting pretty far. And to be honest, I would not make it an AW clone. Sure, many things would be fairly similar - most of the unit roster probably - but some would not; there might be a hex-based grid or whatever and probably an entirely new set of COs, even if some may be 'clones' of already existing COs ability-wise.
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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:21 pm

Narts: Those drawings are awesome! I had no idea they even existed! Pity the project wasn't really finished because I'm sure you guys had some wonderful ideas and all that. As for my own ideas, I expected negative feedback. People have to expect that no matter where they go or what they do. Gee, maybe you weren't flattered either that I liked those good sprite designs so much that I drew my own versions. Can I assume you actually visited that CO section of my personal web site that has all 49 COs up and running? For some of them, I actually designed better alternate uniforms because... well... I had no idea that the reason those... uh... hodgepodge sprite designs existed with the sprite sheets simply because the project was abandoned and real alternate designs might never have been finished. Hm, I must remember that reason. For example, for Green Earth's CO Peter, I drew him a casual wear that resembles Roger's getup from the animated Disney version of 101 Dalmatians. And for Ember, a race queen attire from the Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds World Championship Nintendo DS video games. Oh, but I did make it quite clear that I wasn't the original designer of the Custom Wars COs that I did drawings of, be it on deviantART, Facebook, and my personal web site.

ThunderWalker: I know it takes a team, I get that. But for this, Project Advance Wars Frontier, it's just a showcase of art and story writing. My real game ideas lie elsewhere.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:51 am

TW: You're right that you'd need at least 5-6 people for a project the size of something that resembles Advance Wars.

The guy you call "the boss" is actually usually two people - called the game designer and the producer.

Designer is responsible for the design and the producer prioritises features, tracks people's work/time, makes sure everyone is communicating and is on the same page about everything and generally "leads" the project. You wouldn't really want a "boss" though in the sense of some guy who tells everyone from above what to do. In a project of that size it's perfectly practical to make decisions on a consensus basis.

The Thunder: Yes I've seen your website. Yeah, I guess I'm flattered. ty.

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:12 am

It's my every intention when I draw stuff that isn't mine to begin with, hoping to go for a form of flattery. You know, think The LEGO Movie if you've seen that. I have good intentions on the mind and since my project is not "real" anyway, it's not really going anywhere. It's just me and the artwork... and the story writing.

ThunderWalker
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by ThunderWalker » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:26 am

Narts wrote:TW: You're right that you'd need at least 5-6 people for a project the size of something that resembles Advance Wars.

The guy you call "the boss" is actually usually two people - called the game designer and the producer.

Designer is responsible for the design and the producer prioritises features, tracks people's work/time, makes sure everyone is communicating and is on the same page about everything and generally "leads" the project. You wouldn't really want a "boss" though in the sense of some guy who tells everyone from above what to do. In a project of that size it's perfectly practical to make decisions on a consensus basis.
True. Especially with 5-6 people you can easily do things on consensus, but someone needs to have the tiebreak if it comes to that (in the case of an even number). And some persons are amazing coders but have absolutely no clue about designing a balanced game - and the other way around also exists.
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JSRulz

Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by JSRulz » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:52 pm

@The Thunder: Your work is pretty expansive. I mean, it takes a lot of work to redraw each of the Commanding Officers and make up your own. It is pretty commendable in its own right that you did that without any help, alongside that really large "Totally Lashed!" comic. I wouldn't say work like this goes nowhere, because if there is enough passion behind a work, someone will always pick up where you left off. Keep it up.
ThunderWalker wrote: You need at least 1-2 artists
You need several programmers
You need a storyline-writer.
You need the boss; the person who does the gameplay design and who decides to add which features in which order.

And you need to have the patience to not release whatever progress you have made until you at least have a campaign (or AW1 Tutorial) AND online multiplayer ready (including AI). After this, a closed beta would be released, and once the most aggrevating bugs and balance issues would be fixed, an open beta could be posted on the forums.

With a dedicated team of six you should be capable of getting pretty far. And to be honest, I would not make it an AW clone. Sure, many things would be fairly similar - most of the unit roster probably - but some would not; there might be a hex-based grid or whatever and probably an entirely new set of COs, even if some may be 'clones' of already existing COs ability-wise.
Honestly, the only project here that actually got a decent amount of dedicated folks, was the original Custom Wars. Almost every other project that I've seen pop up has only 1 - 2 dedicated individuals. The rest of the development team acts more like contractors, usually help out doing one thing and leaving promptly afterwards. Getting six people to work together, and remain dedicated enough to see it through to completion is a very tough clause without incentives. Despite this, I do think it is possible for smaller teams to crank out bigger games, they just have to do 3 times the amount of work to accomplish the goal.

There is a chance though, that the gaming community in general might be spoiled. It isn't like a developer can take a person step by step through the development process to feel the pain. This day and age, many people just get a product and rate the product as is. The expectations for what denotes a good game has expanded as the industry pushes games to its limits. The AAA industry would be the first to tell you making a clone or sequel is less risky than a full on new game. I think it is because now that every single game requires an online multiplayer mode, full story campaign, decent artificial intelligence, and smooth user interface controls to be considered complete.

The big disconnect I feel between people who want to play vs. the people that make the experiences is... baby steps. It takes time to craft a menu, it takes time to get the tight control feel, and it takes time to iterate the perfect game play. Also, just because a game is built with online multiplayer, doesn't mean the community will just appear to fill it up. It takes time to gather people that'll be interested in playing the game. There is only one problem, it is so easy to interrupt growth. If a community doesn't spend time harnessing and encouraging players, it'll be hard to attract new players to the game (especially in the lack of team based combat and slippery slope loss conditions that AW comes pre-packaged with). All the developers work will essentially go to waste, and they'd probably end up leaving too.

The point is, don't underestimate the power of a motivating community. It is very hard to attract and maintain growth, if there is poison all over your soil.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Honestly, you're overthinking the "gathering community" part

First make the game, then worry about finding players

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:52 pm

JSRulz: Thank you for what you had to say. But this Advance Wars work is technically unoriginal apart from my 10 fan-created COs and other characters. For "Totally Lashed!", in a way, it sort of takes over where Totally Flaked "prematurely" ended, assuming there aren't any more than 235 of those comics. However, I'm glad you can seem to tell that I at least put effort into my drawings and that I do have passion for the things I'm doing. And I did intend to light up this community a little. I just didn't count on the Advance Wars hype having died down as much as a few users here are suggesting. Then again, it has been seven years since the last Advance Wars game and I heard some people didn't find Days of Ruin meeting as many expectations as what the game put out. Also, to be fair, I had been doing "Totally Lashed!" for two years now and I think you'd say I'm even more commendable because I did some of this work while I was still in art school and had a lot of actual school work thrown me. Yeah, I was crazy busy back then.

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scraggypunk
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by scraggypunk » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:29 pm

i forgot how awesome meiyo came out from you and x0_000. ah, memories. what an embarrassing time
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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:58 pm

Those placeholders were embarrassing... but understandable. I almost feel bad about making fun of them.

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Xenesis
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Xenesis » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:04 pm

I'm glad the placeholders existed, it was enough to play the game for the meantime. While that revealed a huge swathe of game design problems, at least they were played.
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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:27 pm

Revealing game design problems through testing is good!

Testing using crappy placeholder assets is good!

That is how you find out problematic mechanics before you spend too much time making them a permanent part of the design.

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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by ThunderWalker » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:50 pm

JSRulz wrote:@The Thunder:
ThunderWalker wrote: You need at least 1-2 artists
You need several programmers
You need a storyline-writer.
You need the boss; the person who does the gameplay design and who decides to add which features in which order.

And you need to have the patience to not release whatever progress you have made until you at least have a campaign (or AW1 Tutorial) AND online multiplayer ready (including AI). After this, a closed beta would be released, and once the most aggrevating bugs and balance issues would be fixed, an open beta could be posted on the forums.

With a dedicated team of six you should be capable of getting pretty far. And to be honest, I would not make it an AW clone. Sure, many things would be fairly similar - most of the unit roster probably - but some would not; there might be a hex-based grid or whatever and probably an entirely new set of COs, even if some may be 'clones' of already existing COs ability-wise.
Honestly, the only project here that actually got a decent amount of dedicated folks, was the original Custom Wars. Almost every other project that I've seen pop up has only 1 - 2 dedicated individuals. The rest of the development team acts more like contractors, usually help out doing one thing and leaving promptly afterwards. Getting six people to work together, and remain dedicated enough to see it through to completion is a very tough clause without incentives. Despite this, I do think it is possible for smaller teams to crank out bigger games, they just have to do 3 times the amount of work to accomplish the goal.
True. Not everybody has the competency to do all of this.
For example, I absolutely and completely suck at everything that has to do with programming. I can't even get simple things to work. Getting a 3D model done, is something I can do, at least structures, ships and aircraft. Ground vehicles and infantry I don't have the proper tools for but the former three can be fairly easily done with the free version of Google SketchUp. Getting a half-decent storyline is pretty hard.

A tip is to organize a RolePlay with the basic storyline in it prior to it. Even if you don't get to finish the game everybody partaking has a lot of fun, and if you DO get to finish it, you have found a lot of kinks in the storyline before you even actively started to write it.

There is a chance though, that the gaming community in general might be spoiled. It isn't like a developer can take a person step by step through the development process to feel the pain. This day and age, many people just get a product and rate the product as is. The expectations for what denotes a good game has expanded as the industry pushes games to its limits. The AAA industry would be the first to tell you making a clone or sequel is less risky than a full on new game. I think it is because now that every single game requires an online multiplayer mode, full story campaign, decent artificial intelligence, and smooth user interface controls to be considered complete.
We are spoiled to hell and back. and yeah, multiplayer, campaign and AI are all required of some sort, which isn't exactly easy. In a beta phase, you can however start with only online multiplayer or campaign+ unfinished AI (for predeployed missions). And yeah, clones and sequels are much less risky which is why they are made to begin with, but the reward is also much less in general unless you have a cash cow fanchise (like Mario or Pokémon for Nitendo, Command & Conquer, GTA and so on).
The big disconnect I feel between people who want to play vs. the people that make the experiences is... baby steps. It takes time to craft a menu, it takes time to get the tight control feel, and it takes time to iterate the perfect game play. Also, just because a game is built with online multiplayer, doesn't mean the community will just appear to fill it up. It takes time to gather people that'll be interested in playing the game. There is only one problem, it is so easy to interrupt growth. If a community doesn't spend time harnessing and encouraging players, it'll be hard to attract new players to the game (especially in the lack of team based combat and slippery slope loss conditions that AW comes pre-packaged with). All the developers work will essentially go to waste, and they'd probably end up leaving too.

The point is, don't underestimate the power of a motivating community. It is very hard to attract and maintain growth, if there is poison all over your soil.
True. But I agree with Narts in "make the game first, work on the community later". The community doesn't come as long as your product lacks the previous three pillars (multiplayer, campaign, AI) built around the core (the actual game design) to support them.
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by scraggypunk » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:55 am

quite frankly i'm surprised a bunch of children did as much as they did
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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:06 am

Heeeey... What do you mean by that?

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:35 pm

she means we were all kids back in 2007.

which we weren't

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:11 pm

And now most of the Advance Wars hype has died out since Days of Ruin. I just hope ponies weren't the cause of that.

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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Bonesy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:27 pm

the fudge do ponies have anything to do with anything besides that tosser radioshadow

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:04 am

That TV show that came out in 2010 that sucked in one of the most controversial cult followings of all time, that's what. What I mean is that I hope a lot of us didn't just abandon Advance Wars and move on to another new best thing. I know, kinda stupid of me to bring this up.

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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by monkymeet » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:36 am

Narts wrote:she means we were all kids back in 2007.

which we weren't
yeah you old fart
imageshack swallowed up my sig. This is a placeholder.

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Narts
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by Narts » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:03 am

yeah what was I even doing there with kids ten years younger than myself

what a creep

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scraggypunk
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by scraggypunk » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:18 am

what are you like 45
wisdom
"the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - anatole france

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The Thunder
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Re: Project Advance Wars Frontier

Post by The Thunder » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:20 am

Let me try to revive this. My old personal web site went down because of... well, things got complicated, so I switched to BlueHost. I'll just re-post the cover art again as a start.
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