Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

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King of Ithaca

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by King of Ithaca » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:50 am

Actually, I have gotten 300 rankings on Dark Ambitions using your team, Ring of Fire using Grimm and Jake, and Surrounded! using your teams, though none of them were done in the fantastic time limits that you set yourself (I cannot recall my time for Dark Ambitions, but Ring of Fire was something like 13 days and Surrounded! was closer to 6 or 7).

Now I am on For the Future!, though I have not gone to many efforts to perfect it. I know that true success relies in the handling of Green Earth, but I have also tried using Grit with Blue Moon to maximize my use of the deployed Battleship, with Javier and Jess running Orange Star to make use of the available towers. I actually enjoy For the Future! in terms of strategy development, since it is not the hornet's nest that is Crystal Calamity, but getting Eagle to pull off a perfect victory is rather difficult.

Either way, things have been remarkably easy since Crystal Calamity, so I am fairly content with my own progress despite my admittedly parroted use of certain COs (while my particular Surrounded! strategy did not actually use Sami even once, so Max could have just as well stepped in for lucky support). I do enjoy acknowledging your own achievements in regards to perfectionism.

MINOR UPDATE:

I finished For the Future! in 9 days with a perfect S rank plus 115 points from destroying several pipes and a couple of Black Crystals (for 415 points total). I used the same COs that I describe above, and Eagle pulled off a perfect victory by using Lightning Strike to kill as much in one day as possible. I actually had to ease up with Javier to avoid wiping out Von Bolt's central deployed units before Green Earth had a chance to rack up the casualties, and all I literally used Grit for was shooting at the pipes and Black Crystal along the western pipeline, while Von Bolt's respective Battleship and Cruiser stayed back and out of range of my guns for the entirety of the mission (as I was constantly deploying Battleships for the sheer hell of it).

Humbly yours,
King of Ithaca

Translucent Air

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Translucent Air » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:56 pm

Congratulations and nice work; it looks quite impressive and may yet be tough to beat. I'll admit - it'll be rather interesting to see what the minimum 300-pt. time is plus any possible bonus points for For the Future!

Additionally, contrary to my earlier offhand comment about the minimum of this particular mission:

Surrounded! - 4 days, 310 pts. - Sami; Sensei
Surrounded! - 4 days, 310 pts. - Sami; Any CO
Surrounded! - 4 days, 310 pts. - Sensei; Any CO
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams included.)

Sensei charges his Copter Command on Day 2 to have his infantry paratroopers stall the northern medium tank while an infantry deployed on Day 1 secures the northern com tower. Sami meanwhile charges her Double Time by Day 3 to have her western infantry secure the western com tower with APC transport. Kindle and Andy never have a chance to pull off a Dual Strike. The infantry specialists certainly display their prowess in this mission.

More generally, either Sami or Sensei must command Orange Star since the western com tower is out of reach by just 1 space for most COs on Day 3. (If Jess were able to use her CO Power on Day 2, she would be a contender; however, that's a fairly tall order that could compromise her ability to secure the eastern com tower in time.) To successfully capture the northern com tower, the commander for Blue Moon must simply deploy a constant stream of decoys to stall the northern medium tank.

---------------

It looks as if I've achieved the minimum perfect time on For the Future! While still a preliminary sketch, I believe I've also attained the maximum number of points within this time:

For the Future! - 4 days, 430 pts. - Grit; Hawke; Eagle, Sensei
(Bonus of 1 obelisk, 3 crystals, 3 minicannons, and 2 pipe seams included.)

Hawke's role at Blue Moon is replaceable by most anyone as he simply destroys the nearest minicannon and a pipe seam with aid from Grit. Grit's role with Orange Star is pivotal in obtaining full marks for Power. He incurs damage intentionally to charge his Super CO Power for the final day and aids in breaking a pipe seam with his innate range, allowing Eagle (commanding Green Earth) access to the center. From there, Eagle uses his CO Power to destroy 4 units in one day (Day 3). On Day 4, Grit uses his Super Snipe destroying the two western crystals with the initial rockets and a deployed piperunner. Sensei then uses his Copter Command to use his copters to help finish off the final crystal, previously attacked by Eagle on Day 3. The obelisk is destroyed by first attacking with a damaged bomber after using Lightning Drive on Day 3, and a 10 HP stealth fighter with Sensei on Day 4. Unfortunately, this strategy does rely on a less probable circumstance, needing Von Bolt to be more fearless with his air force on Day 1.

Translucent Air

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Translucent Air » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:51 am

An update for those interested, which personally was rather amazing (older, preliminary records listed afterward):

Means to an End - 12 days, 710 pts. - Eagle, Rachel
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams and 10 oozium included.)

Means to an End - 12 days, 630 pts. - Eagle, Hawke
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams and 8 oozium included.)


This was a complete rout through and through with Rachel: all available oozium (10) and enemy units were destroyed with enough allied units left able to occupy Von Bolt's two open bases. The Grand Bolt and northern oozium were met with an army virtually consisting of solely anti-air units. The only two bombers deployed were both sent to the second front to expedite Kindle's defeat and ensure Rachel completed by Day 11. (While I was able to leave the AI setting on 'General' on a previous occasion, I needed to tweak Rachel's gameplay and switch to 'Strike' toward the end.) Von Bolt's one and only use of his Ex Machina was guided to the southern region by huddling the transport and battle copters with the capturing infantry sent there. As before, artillery were deployed the final day to destroy the pipe seams in conjunction with the Dual Strike.

In the end, the minimum time truly depends on whether the allied AI can get its act together and wrap things up quickly. From what I've seen, it may even be possible for the AI to finish in 10 days for an overall 11-day win; however, given the amount of luck and effort needed just for the AI to win in 11 days, observing a 10-day victory on the second front is highly improbable.

With that said, the war for Omega Land in 'Campaign' mode can be wrapped up within 139 days (4.63 months) with only the final mission needing to take longer than 10 days and over 90% of missions (26 of 28) being completed in 7 days or less (Spiral Garden being the other exception).

---------------------

Older preliminary findings and scores:
Means to an End - 14 days, 830 pts. - Eagle, Rachel (General AI)
Means to an End - 14 days, 830 pts. - Eagle, Colin (General AI)
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams and 13 oozium included.)

Eagle's tag potential to generate essentially 3 turns in one day is undisputed; as such, he needs to lead the main front. The plethora of oozium does wonders for his Lightning Drive as well, allowing for hit-and-runs against the oozium as well as opportunities to reclaim lost funds and deploy more units. A platoon of infantry aided by pairs of transport copters and battle copters make their way down to the south to claim the cities and shutdown Von Bolt's ability to increase his funds. The only other units deployed were bombers and anti-airs, with the possibility for artillery to take care of the pipe seams. All 13 oozium available by Day 14 were destroyed (7 initial and 3 each deployed Days 6 and 12).

Nonetheless, what has the most effect on the minimum time is how fast the second front can be won. Since the second front cannot be manually controlled, it's up to chance, as the AI's performance is variable, even if the AI setting is kept the same throughout.

Rachel is chosen due to her ability for inflict mass damage through Covering Fire, though the fact that her innate ability partially counteracts the effects of Kindle's Urban Blight is also a plus. Two bombers were sent from the main front when she completed by Day 13, though I believe I've had the chance to experience her complete on Day 12, in which two bombers were likely also sent. Meanwhile, Colin, with the massive funds base of the second front, will simply keep using Gold Rush to crank out offensive units (two bombers were sent as well). According to the GameSpot guide, Colin can also finish by Day 12, though I haven't had the pleasure of encountering that circumstance yet.

In the end, the minimum time will likely be dictated by how fast the allied AI wraps up the second front, although I'm not sure if all available oozium can be destroyed if the completion is faster than 14 days. Consequently:

Means to an End - 13 days, 670 pts. - Eagle, Rachel (General AI)
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams and 9 oozium included.)
Means to an End - 13 days, 750 pts. - Eagle, Sensei (General AI)
(Bonus of 2 pipe seams and 11 oozium included.)

Rachel actually cleaned up the second front on Day 11, but, even with Rachel in tow for a tag, Eagle was in no position to crush the Grand Bolt in one fell swoop with a Dual Strike on Day 12. Therefore, Day 12 was used to prepare for the final tag assault on Day 13. The two bombers Eagle sent up interestingly eliminated the crystal guarded by naval forces, while a medium tank and anti-air handled the cyrstal protected by enemy ground forces and a tank and battle copter shattered the crystal guarded by Kindle's air forces.

Sensei completed in 12 days with the assistance of two bombers. With the multitude of cities, Airborne Assault interestingly allows Sensei immediate access to all potential missile silos allowing for a turn of pseudo-Covering Fire (or better). Unfortunately, the AI isn't programmed to join Sensei's mechs; a lot of mechs end up sitting around doing nothing, though the ones that do have something to attack are fairly effective. The increase in oozium destroyed is likely due variations in AI movement on the main front; I unfortunately haven't yet pinpointed a clear strategy.

This mission is still very much a work in progress. Javier is also a potentially attractive running mate, as he becomes a pseudo-Kanbei due to the secondary front map. The four towers in the main front also make his pairing something to consider. In the end, finding out what factor helps complete the second front fastest is key: relatively quick mass damage (Rachel), cheap unit production (Colin), a psuedo-combination of both (Sensei), staying power (Javier), or something else altogether. Not counting Eagle, there are 14 COs to choose from, obscuring an obvious selection.
-Translucent Air

King of Ithaca

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by King of Ithaca » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:28 am

This is a job well done if I ever saw one. I highly doubt that I could replicate your success, but I would be willing to try if I mustered up the courage and level of patience necessary for such a task.

At the moment, I am trying to achieve a perfect score on Snow Hunters via the normal campaign exclusively using Max, for some perverse, masculine reason that I can hardly attempt to identify. The hardest part involves effective use of the rockets and artillery provided to the Orange Star army, but I am confident that it will be a rewarding victory once achieved. Other than that, things are regrettably winding down for my Dual Strike escapades, but I am rather interested in the prospect of pursuing almost preposterous goals (i.e. reaching the maximum level for all officers, finishing all maps in the war room perfectly with every officer, etc.), if only to satisfy that same, perverse, masculine reason that is currently driving me to make easy things harder on myself.

Without further rambling, I have enjoyed reading your strategies, and if anything, they have inspired me to try and develop my own. I hardly consider you the individual that requires his ego to be stroked, but I do enjoy admiring competence whenever it should pop up out of the bush.

Humbly yours,
King of Ithaca

Translucent Air

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Translucent Air » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:39 am

A few more updates, again:

Means to an End - 11 days, 670 pts. - Eagle Rachel
(Bonus of 2 pipes seams and 9 oozium included.)

So very close to the maximum number of points in 11 days - just shy one oozium and two attacks needed to destroy it.

Map Reference

The key to expediting the win on the second front is finding and waiting for the right openings. Multitudes of infantry must be deployed to send up to the second front in order to position bombers properly.

To one-shot the central crystal, allied units must occupy the allied HQ and the three positions surrounding it with the position 2 spaces north of the allied HQ clear before sending up the bomber. Only the crystal must be inside the bomber's attack range, any potential enemy units within range must be destroyed by allied land units before the bomber moves.

Nailing the western crystal in one shot is more complicated and may not be easily reliably reproduced. An enemy unit (a surfaced sub in case I've utilized) should occupy the position north of the allied port (presumably destroying the allied unit deployed there), with no unit occupying the port. The enemy cruiser and carrier must also not have the allied port within their attack range. From there, allied units must occupy the allied HQ, the three positions surrounding it, and the position 2 spaces north of the HQ, before sending up the bomber. The bomber will destroy the sub, positioning it to destroy the crystal. Any enemy sea units will retreat behind the crystal to avoid the bomber's range, leaving the crystal wide open.

It is expected that the allied AI handles destruction of the eastern crystal on its own, most likely with a battle copter and a (medium) tank unit. Indicative of the overall strategy for the main front, the deployed units were: 21 infantry, 8 anti-air, 2 bombers, 2 battle copters, 2 transport copters, and 2 artillery.

I've also began a foray into 'Hard Campaign' (which I may not end up completing):

Jake's Trial - 5 Days, 300 pts. - Sensei, Sami

Sensei uses his transport abilities, accompanied by the initial tank, to drop a mech two spaces south of the Rachel's HQ for Sami to capture. (The APC and tank provide partial defenses for the capture.) Sensei uses his CO Power to gain additional units to boost the Technique threshold, and Sami takes out two units with artillery and mechs the final day with her own CO Power to satisfy the Power aspect.

------------------------------

Completing Snow Hunters using solely Max does seem quite interesting. Getting rid of the initial bomber is likely to be tougher, as the missiles lack the range and may actually require destroying the pipe seams first to let the anti-airs at it. It's certainly not the easiest way out and I'm sure it'll be rewarding upon completion.

As for completing every 'War Room' map perfectly with every CO, I know it's been done as a community, but I'm not sure if anyone has done it all personally - perhaps by a few (swifty possibly comes to mind). Nonetheless, it's a grand goal definitely worth aiming for, and I wish you luck on whatever you decide to pursue, King of Ithaca.

-Translucent Air

King of Ithaca

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by King of Ithaca » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:06 am

In a rather embarrassing example of speaking too soon, I got a perfect score with 335 points on my second attempt at a Max-exclusive Snow Hunters. I suppose that I can just move on and pretend that that never happened.

Translucent Air

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Translucent Air » Fri May 02, 2008 3:24 am

In likely the last update for this mission, with all bonus points available by Day 11:

Means to an End - 11 days, 710 pts. - Eagle Rachel
(Bonus of 2 pipes seams and 10 oozium included.)

Extracting an extra Lightning Drive out of Eagle by throwing infantry at Von Bolt's recons (in addition to attacking oozium) was key. This time, two more infantry were deployed: 23 infantry, 8 anti-air, 2 bombers, 2 battle copters, 2 transport copters, and 2 artillery.

-Translucent Air
Last edited by Translucent Air on Sat May 03, 2008 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Dragon Fogel » Fri May 02, 2008 5:54 am

I believe you mean 710 points there, you've simply listed the total bonus points earned and forgotten the base score.

Excellent work, as always.
Dragon Fogel,
Marquis Elmdor's Arch-Nemesis

Don't call me "Dragon".

WWN's War Room High Scores: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt
AW1 version: http://www.celestialbridge.net/fogel/aw ... scores.txt

Translucent Air

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by Translucent Air » Sat May 03, 2008 3:14 am

You're right; I was probably unconsciously fixated on the bonus points - when I initially cleared it with all oozium killed, I forgot to deploy the artillery and wondered where the last 10 points went. I've corrected it above.

To provide further insight, I used Lightning Drive a total of 3 times - on Days 7, 9, and 10. Note that, since the usage immediately followed one the previous day, Eagle had to charge his power on entirely his own accord on Day 10. The two bombers were deployed on Days 6 and 7 and sent up to the secondary front on Days 7 and 10. (Their time on the primary front was, of course, fully utilized.) Only around 3 allied units were lost (with more than enough, nearly 40, units deployed).

Unfortunately, I'm somewhat doubtful of feasibility of reproduction, due to the random nature of the allied AI in the second front and the oozium in the primary front. Though the four southern oozium can be strung along for the most part by the 4 copter units, it's hardly foolproof, and it's possible that their arrangement may not allow for the necessary proper charging. After all, all the Eagle and Rachel records within Day 12 were based off the same Day 7 save, which was based of a Day 5 save in turn. I used up all three save slots on the cart; a Day 10 save for the immediate record occupied the third. (The Eagle and Hawke, Day 12, record was simply a whim, using no saves, after reading in the 'Help!' forum (topic) that Hawke could complete "around" Day 10. In fact, their tag penalty may not make too much of an impact, as Eagle, disregarding Sami, still needs three shots from an anti-air to execute an oozium, and the penalty doesn't change that fact.)

Now that this mission is pretty much finalized (I haven't been able to encounter Rachel shatter the eastern crystal on Day 9), I need to come full circle once again and replay the 'Campaign' to arrive at Ring of Fire. It's humorous that the mission that started this thread is the only one, besides Means to an End, that I still haven't finished writing my own full walkthrough for. I must say that old comments, stating that day-to-day walkthroughs for this specific game were impossible, definitely show their age.


-Translucent Air


P.S. In the meantime, I've used the original Advance Wars to pass the time, relearning or improving previous accomplishments I've done years ago. Among them, in 'Field Training': a 9-day B-rank rout for Copter Tactics, an 11-day no casualty (A-rank) rout for Base Capture, and a perfect 4-day rout for Fog of War. There's also the 6-day HQ-capture for It's War in 'Campaign'; it's arguably harder than the 'Advance Campaign' version, as the player must limit losses to only 2 units (since Technique actually counts) while sidestepping Olaf's Blizzard for 4 days.

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hawkes nightmare
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Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by hawkes nightmare » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:59 am

odysseus, the king of ithaca
xenesis wrote:
hawkes nightmare wrote: i only came here because i thought there would be pudding.
That's a pretty good reason to go anywhere.
xen wrote:Prepare to receive judgment. And possibly cookies.

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-STL-

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by -STL- » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:48 am

Means to an End (NC) 8/300 Colin/Javier

I finally played this mission for real. Javier is so much better on the top screen than Rachel. XD I gave him Cap+3 and Direct Def +20, so he had 130/150 stats.
Colin got 3 Money and also Plain=1. As the Grand Bolt has the same Defence as a Oozium i used 2 Recons and an Inf to destroy it. 61,5k+ needs to be saved up for Colin´s SCOP. I sent a Bomber on day 3 and Day 5 and ay Neo on Day 6 together with a lot of Infs to get him into the right position.
Even 7 days might be possible.

fcastro

Re: Ring of Fire - 7 days, 340 pts. (Campaign)

Post by fcastro » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:05 pm

Haha amazing job but what makes you think that 7 days are possible? XD

First did you ever see Javier winning at day 6? I got very close from it, so I'm sure that it's possible, however our D5 recons wont reach the Big Oozium imo, as he's covered by little ooziums and units like tank and recon. For the money, by COPing at d6 thanks to the closest oozium (if he moves nicely), we can get at best around 60k, so even that stuff would be though.

However I didnt play it long enough to be sure, and as I used a different way from yours i may have overlooked something. Here's my strat for Javier, its random but looks close to 6 days north victory, i sent only 4 infs and 2 bombers:

skills: I used 2 money skills in order to get Javier building 2 bombers and 1 battleship. He also had 2 caps skills for having the com tower, but maybe a 7-days strat would require him to get attack skills like "com tower skill" if we're short with money.

D1: start with defensive mode.

D1 Kindle: for some reasons it looks better that she moves her bcop and fighter south.

D2: send him 3 infs to allow him to use missles. Note that he would have targeted more units if Kindle hadn't move bcop and fighter south, but for some reasons it looked to prevent Javier from building 2nd bomber later. Javier builds his 1st bomber.

D3: send him a bomber. Here u need him to move his 1st bomber all the way west <_< (iirc the setting is still defensive but not 100% sure; i know he didnt attack anyone with the sent bomber). He must also build another bomber!

D4: thanks to defensive setting, Javier should destroy the central obelisk. When he doesnt make that early (surprising) attack, I never saw him taking care about obelisk before having destroyed all central units... Also, new bomber must go north, and Javier is supposed to build battleship.

D5: send the 2nd bomber, with some infs in order to get him in range of a sea unit. Now pray for him to play good, very agressive setting should help <_< He easily gets 7 days, I wonder if he's able to get 6 days or not...

edit: lol com skill is very unfair with Javier, it doesnt take his SCOP into account, so that would only give 10% boost for the last day...

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