Wars World News Forums

by **GipFace** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:15 am

See http://nnl1.com/aw for a PDF version and other little tidbits.

by **thefalman** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:56 am

Nice!

So, the Bike has a Mech's machine gun rather than an Infantry's... it really seems they wanted to give standard Infantry the shaft in this game lol.

If it weren't for the fact that only a relatively small number of units can attack it I'd be tempted to write the Duster off as a bit rubbish... especially when you compare it to the cheaper B-Copter (which dishes out more damage, but seems to take a bit more from standard machine gun fire). The Fighter nerf is interesting though, and helps the Duster's cause a little I think.

Oh man, I just realised that barely anything OHKOs infantry by default. Ugh. CO Zones and leveled up units are gonna key in breaking through enemy meatshields.

by **GipFace** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:24 am

I'm thinking that the Duster is basically used on non-tank (and non-AntiAir) units to weaken them, then another unit comes in for the kill and gets the experience. Since it has 8 MP and 4 vision, you could easily lead a charge with them. But yeah, it looks like a poor man's Fighter at first glance.

And how about that Cruiser? It went from being a laughable niche unit in AW1, and look at where it is now. It got a major offense boost in order to combat the evil move-and-fire Battleship and Seaplane-spawning Carriers. Remember that AWDS level where your Cruisers were blocked by Carriers and you were just shaking your head because of 5% damage? Not anymore.

by **dragonite** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:31 am

Are vet boosts known yet?
Edit: found it.

And note that the bomber can KO a infantry on plains now,and has a 50-50 chanse to do so on woods

Bomber got boosted in general..

by **Kireato** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:40 am

Bomber is the key word.
That unit has truly become a beast when it comes to destroying stuff and just can't be destroyed as easily as before. To be fair, the same can be said of Bcopters which have gotten a bit of a boost.
And that's where the Duster comes into play. The Fighter has taken quite a nerf. I can't quite see when I'd want to deploy it. The Anti air is still as good to fight off air units and with those around I'd rather bet on cheap units like Dusters to finish off infantries occasionally and mostly beat up enemy air units. Though bombers are still likely to be quite useful.

And Sea warfare has become pretty aggressive. The carrier seems like it won't see to much use to me. Risky investment if you ask me. The cruiser makes air units cry at sea, in fact not just air units, but also subs. But then Bships will probably make them a bit tough to use. While Subs will be quite the menace for most sea units when dived... And then there's the gunboat, even cruiser's can kick it's ass. Yeah, cruisers seem like quite the unit still...

Oh, and the Flare is one sexy unit. It's definitely got a few uses to it outside of fow. Quite the rival for the recon right there.

by **GipFace** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:52 am

(Bomber) has truly become a beast when it comes to destroying stuff and just can't be destroyed as easily as before. To be fair, the same can be said of Bcopters which have gotten a bit of a boost.
Let's go in-depth over the new damage values for these units, shall we? :wink:

Bomber
Upgraded matchups from AWDS:
Infantry (+5%)
Fighter (takes only 65%)
Battleship (+10%)
Carrier (-20%, but takes only 35%) {to be fair, Carrier is now a totally different unit}

Downgraded matchups from AWDS:
AntiAir (-10%, but AntiAir does 70% to it instead of 75%)
Missiles (-10%)
War Tank (-20%) {costs $16K so War Tank = old Md Tank}

And the Bomber gains two new foils: Duster and Seaplane. I'm figuring that the Duster will be a key unit to keeping the Bomber in check. The AntiAir matchup is key, since a bland CO will not be able to OHKO AntiAir on the attack. Other than that, I don't see why everyone is salivating over the new Bomber. It's more or less the same. Nerf one foil, add two more.

B-Copter
Upgraded matchups from AWDS:
Recon (+20%, takes 18% instead of 10%)
Tank (+15%, takes 18% instead of 10%)
War Tank (+10%, takes 35% instead of 12%) {costs $16K so War Tank = old Md Tank}
Rockets (+10%)

Downgraded matchups from AWDS:
Mech (-10%, takes 12% instead of 9%)
AntiAir (-15%)
Missiles (-10%)
T-Copter (-10%)
Cruiser (-20%) {it can barely do a lick to it now!}

The B-Copter does more damage against the tank family but takes more in return as well, so first strike is imperative. It is completely foiled by three new units: Duster, Anti-Tank, and Seaplane. The changed key weakness is AntiAir: before, three B-Copters could gang up on an AntiAir and take it out. Now it can barely mop them up, so having just one AntiAir is a major deterrent. It can no longer OHKO T-Copters, and yeah, Cruisers just make B-Copters cry.

I think only time will tell whether this B-Copter is better than the old one or not. The amplified AntiAir weakness is a glaring one.

the gunboat, even cruiser's can kick it's ass.
I think Gunboat is a terrible name because it's arguably more fragile than Infantry. It has terrible defense, and its weapon is only used in emergency because Gunboat has 1 ammo! But hey, it's only $6000, so you can't complain too much. I wonder if Gunboat blitzkrieg would be a viable strategy: use 2 Gunboats to cripple/destroy a sea unit, then re-supply them, repeat.

The carrier seems like it won't see to much use to me. Risky investment if you ask me.
Since Carrier's weapon is probably only going to be used in emergency, you can consider only the Seaplanes as its primary weapon. Four Seaplanes cost $60K, and the Carrier is $25K. So, that's $21250 per Seaplane. Seaplane's weaknesses are Cruiser, the Carrier being destroyed before any Seaplanes are deployed, and low fuel (only 45!). The Sub weakness isn't too significant because one can simply surround the Carrier with Seaplanes.

Anyway, I'm rather excited because Carrier seems to have a lot of potential to go with the drawbacks.

by **dragonite** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:01 am

good analysis..

The bomber has more enemy's,but it,s potential is the power to KO ground units easyer..

The duster is a problem,I agree..

by **DTaeKim** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:04 am

In b4 GameFAQS:

Carriers = instant win

by **Kireato** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 am

Ah you're right, there's no significant change to the bomber's damage. The thing is, it no longer can be shot out of the sky as easily as before. OHKO made using bomber quite an annoyance. Even with 2 dusters, you won't take a bomber out of the sky. That says something. Furthermore with the veterancy system, it's high damage will ensure that it OHKOs very consistently even when facing units on high terrain. Oh and you forgot that they got a price drop to boot.

And you seem to have misunderstood my post a bit. I was pointing out that what made the duster useful was the fact that bombers were a lot harder to kill and thus quite a bit more interesting to use.

As for the Bcopter, the donwgraded matchups don't mean anything, while the upgraded matchups mean everything. With AWDS you stopped using Bcopters to take down cruisers. And Bcopters were never used to take down AAir. Ganging up 3 on them on an AAir means losing 2 Bcopters to destroy 1 Aair. That's ridiculously idiotic. I'm sure you'll agree. However it IS annoying that you can no longer beat up tha Aair with a tank and finish it with a Bcopter. But the tank to AAir matchup was upgraded anyways so... And no tank or recon will take first strike on an enemy Bcopter. They can be used better to finish them but not to attack. And finishing Bcopters isn't an issue: AAirs tend to OHKO them so... The AAir weakness has always been there, and Bcopters have despite that stayed incredibly useful to take down tanks. They've become way better in my eyes. Of course the duster is a problem. =/ But I've never deployed a Bcopter without knowing they'd end up sacrificed at some point. If I can take down an enemy duster who tries to prey on my Bcopter with my own Aair.

And the duster just doesn't have the same power as the Bcopter.

Oh yeah, your calculations definitely show that the Carrier isn't going to be used much. Since in the end the seaplane costs more than the bomber and doesn't do the job as well... It would have been preferable for the carrier to act as an airport instead...

by **Drake** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:46 am

Carriers have a smexy new option. Before they move you can "launch" your loaded units. It's just as if you selected that air unit to move and attack.

Bomber: I'm agonna eat dis carrier.
Carrier: O rly? *launches fighters*
Bomber: Oh ****!

by **GipFace** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:18 am

The Carrier will have a use if you are invading an enemy force across the map. Seaplanes become instant reinforcements and use up your money as you travel across the sea to enemy territory. Think Pearl Harbor. Kind of.

by **Kireato** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:34 am

Sure that's true.

But it's still a large risk.
When you deploy it it's 28000 G of... uselessness.
Your first seaplane will have cost... 28000+15000 G
What happens if your opponent takes out your carrier then?
Well you got one seaplane at 43000 G.
The initial cost is steep and you'll have to deploy many seaplanes for it to be worthwhile...

I don't know enough of how the carrier works to know if it's very useful, but I heard that deployment from a carrier took longer than deployment from a normal base... Say it takes 2 turns to churn out a seaplane. That's 8 turns during which you'll have to keep your carrier alive AND spare the funds to deploy the seaplanes. (Not sure about this mechanic)

But worse you talk about sending the carrier in enemy territory. Are you just begging for it to be taken down? =/

If you're using your carrier to deploy units near your opponent, it means your opponent will have access to his deployment facilities... They'll have better planes then you do. Cruisers which won't fear your subs, your carries, your seaplanes...

Well there is that thing, another thing I heard, that the carrier can launch air units. Meaning it can protect (yeah uh, I don't really see how anyone can consider piling up planes on that surfboard a way to protect it when it's OHKO from enemy subs...) and launch air units after movement?

Not enough it known. But it's a big investment, and there are better units than the seaplane out there.

On that note, the dialogue is hilarious. I can't wait to get the game on friday (europe here... -_-) and not have to play in slow motion... (Lin is remarkable.

)

by **GipFace** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:35 am

I'm sure that anyone who makes a Carrier will have the brains to protect it at all costs. I don't want to dismiss it yet until we've all had a chance to play with it. If they are aiming for a Carrier without any Seaplanes on it, that means the rest of the sea armada can do whatever it wants. Note that Subs will have a hard time even getting to a well-placed Carrier, since Seaplanes have 7 MP. Therefore, a Carrier can always stay two spaces out of range (6 MP for Sub plus launch direction) and still have its Seaplanes in the battle.

As for mechanics, producing takes 1 turn. You can only produce a Seaplane if the Carrier hasn't moved and if there's free space. Launching is only available if the Carrier hasn't moved. However, launching does NOT end the turn for a Carrier, so you may launch two air units then produce on the same turn. Therefore, building four Seaplanes and launching all of them only take five turns. Essentially you can treat it as a faux-indirect unit with 8 range that only grows on the next turn if the Seaplanes haven't been destroyed.

there are better units than the seaplane out there.
The Seaplane is the best all-around unit in the game. Whether the versatility is better than units designed for a specific task remains to be seen. If it turns out that it's only marginally better than Stealth (which I didn't use much at all), then that's probably for the best. I'm sure they tweaked it so that CARRIERS FTW would only work on occasion.

by **Kireato** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:57 pm

Subs can dive. You won't always know where they are. Also, you were mentioning using the carrier as an advanced airport, and the point of my comments was to show that was ridiculous because of its large weaknesses. As you say you'll want to protect it, not move it in territory which could be dangerous.

And that's just the thing; I'd rather not have to babysit a 28000 G unit and spend it on...

A Bship and a cruiser since they're cheaper than a carrier and a seaplane... The Bship moves and shoot and if the seaplane tries to attack the Bship, the cruiser rapes it.

Ooh are those the carrier mechanics then? So does it mean I can like move a bomber to my carrier, then launch it from the carrier for super extra crazy range of doom? Because that could be hilarious.

by **Sven** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:26 am

my inf vs inf in testing was 54%

EXPLAIN PLEASE

by **shoe-sama** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:41 am

you need better glasses

actually I'm too lazy to test mine lol so maybe it is 54% but who cares

by **Kireato** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:55 am

I'm fairly sure it's 55.

You'll see 54 if the attacking and defending Co have same firepower and defence, due to rounding in the middle of the formula.

by **Sven** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:56 am

you mean like

100/100

by **Kireato** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:03 am

I checked. It's 55.

And no lol, rounding gives the same result when you multiply or divide by 1.

But 55*1.1=60.5, rounded to 60
And 60/1.1= 54.54 rounded to 54.

(On the other hand 55/1.1 gives 50 rounded to 50 And 50*1.1 gives 55. So what that tells you is that in the game the damage formula is first handled this way: [[base damage * firepower]/defence] with[] being moments when you round down. Dunno where HP is placed in the formula and how rounding down affects it yet. Not important enough for me not to wait for the game coming out here first.)

AND NOW I GOTTA GO TO BED YES.

by **Sirdangolot5** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:26 am

This game's graphics and 2 main characters (Isabella and Will) remind me almost sickeningly of Radiant Dawn and Fire Emblem games in general.

I miss AW1 graphics. They were so duotone and awesome...

by **DTaeKim** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:42 am

What does this have to do with the damage chart?

by **Sirdangolot5** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:33 am

*cough* i mean, uh, bikes and mech totally obsolete infantry, 'cept as meatshields.

As... um... listed above.

by **GipFace** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:41 pm

The damage chart now lists the COs, damage formula, and other bonuses. It's an all-in-one cheat sheet! Hopefully there aren't any errors.

I sorted the COs by radius then alphabetical because I thought that looked best.

by **Sven** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:46 pm

Most impressive!

Printed!

by **GaoGaoStegosaurus** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:09 pm

Outstanding work, GipFace. Printed!

Kireato wrote:Oh yeah, your calculations definitely show that the Carrier isn't going to be used much. Since in the end the seaplane costs more than the bomber and doesn't do the job as well... It would have been preferable for the carrier to act as an airport instead...

Yah, I kind of see Carrier as an over-priced naval airport now. Being able to repair two Bombers/Fighters/etc and then launch them right back out the next turn with two more HP is nice, but the price tag is just too high; I'd rather make Temporary Airports instead.

by **Treedweller** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:13 pm

I've also printed it, and it's the most valuable resource for AW DoR so far. Thanks much Gippy pie!

As for Carriers, they'll see use in FoW maps on occasion as surprise units, so I wouldn't worry about their lack of use too much. Besides, from my experiences thus far, the unit balance is superb, so I'll take one very situational Naval unit if it means the rest of them function quite well in their appropriate niches.

by **GipFace** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:56 pm

Okay, version C had +0/+10 per terrain star. Obviously that was a major slip-up. It's actually +0/+1 per terrain star per HP. So that's been fixed. Of course, since terrain is important for figuring out damage, how could I not include the terrain star chart? Facilities are the factory, airport, and seaport, because I couldn't fit all three in.

Also, since many of the units themselves have changed, there is now MP/V/A/F info! Among the changes are fighter and carrier both having 5 vision, Sub having 6 MP, and tank having 6 ammo.

This chart now has everything but the kitchen sink. I'm sure everyone has memorized unit costs and indirect range, and the names of the CO powers aren't vital for gameplay. But hey, if you want me to try to cram those in...

by **RadioShadow** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:12 am

Would you mind making an alternative one for people who own the Euro version since the names and some unit's are different?

I can easily list the changes tomorrow.

by **GipFace** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:28 pm

Done.

Mech = Bazooka
Bike = Motorbike
Md Tank = Heavy Tank
War Tank = Mega Tank
Artillery = Mech Gun (yuck)
Rig = Mobile Workshop
Fighter = Interceptor
Duster = Fighter (watch out!)
Seaplane = Ship Plane
B-Copter = Battle Heli
T-Copter = Trans Heli
Gunboat = Missile Boat

Bet you didn't get these:
Mist = Fog
Beach = Shoal
Veteran = Ace

And yeah, all the COs besides Lin got their name changed. It seems that the European translation is a more literal translation, and therefore a lot clunkier.

by **Terragent** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:49 pm

I thought Lin got changed to Ling as well.

by **RadioShadow** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:28 am

Nope, it was Lin in the Euro version.

by **Xenesis** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:18 pm

Hey Gipface, can I put this up on WWN's front page when I finish setting up the DoR section?

If it's okay with you, I might split the damage chart from it, but apart from that I'd put up the original version too.

by **RadioShadow** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:07 pm

Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

by **GaoGaoStegosaurus** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:15 pm

RadioShadow wrote:Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

Yup. See those lines under the tables? That's where he explained how all COZ have default +10/+10 and such. Hehe, watch out for these fine prints!

by **Frankdeslimste** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:38 am

Fighters do too less damage against bombers, 65% come on <_<

And I'm glad I got the American version, the European translation sucks.

by **Shift Breaker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:10 am

But even so, you can't deny that Interceptors make 'em sound cool.

I mean, fighters, yeah, that's nice, but Interceptors really gives off that "You're MINE, bitch" vibe.

Though the other translations do suck ass.

by **RadioShadow** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:28 am

GaoGaoStegosaurus wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:Wasn't it discovered Penny got a +10/+10 Offence and Defence boost from her CO?

Yup. See those lines under the tables? That's where he explained how all COZ have default +10/+10 and such. Hehe, watch out for these fine prints!

No one reads the fine print! I didn't realise all COs get a default of +10/+10 offence and defence. Carter is cool now!

by **Sven** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:36 am

is tabitha's missile hp based, i read that somewhere, sorry if i mentioned it already

by **GipFace** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:47 am

Nope, it's money concentration, I just tested it. It will hit 12 mechs over 13 infantry.

by **Sven** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:54 am

Test it a couple more times to make sure it's not 50/50 like Von Bolt's SCOP?

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